Those green areas in Enhancer

[greybeard]

Hi all,

When using the Enhancer demo I encountered the appearance of green areas. I suspect this means that the colors in the green area are out of range of the color profile. Frequently the green areas turn solid black when I apply Enhancer processing, which is never a desirable result for me.

I could find nothing in the Enhancer PDF on this subject. The checkbox to "Suppress Color Profile Warnings" on page 24 Fig 6 suggests the possibility that color profile problems could exist, but apparently makes no further mention of the subject. Ironically, the green areas that I am referring to apparently are showing in Fig 3 on page 22 of the PDF. Only I see them much more intensely and frequently.

Many of the images I processed had an sRGB ICC profile (from a digital camera), which I did not convert to my Adobe RGB profile in Photoshop CS, but opted to use the existing profile. Perhaps I should have made that conversion. In any case, in my opinion, the Enhancer PDF should be expanded to address the green areas, what they mean, and how to properly deal with them. I just posted this query on the AKVIS website, but thought it might get the benefit of a wider exposure here.

GB

[akvis]

Hi, greybeard. Thank you for your report!
Please write what version of Enhancer do you use? We have fixed some serious problem in v.9.1 which was released last Friday. If you use the version 9.1 and still have problems please send us the screenshot of a picture in the Enhancer window and this original picture for testing to this address: support@akvis.com .
What OS do you use?

[greybeard]

Hi AKVIS,

I am currently using the version 9.0 demo and it has 8 days remaining, so I plan to use those 8 days so as not to waste them before installing version 9.1. I'm a fairly busy person, so 10 days isn't a lot of time for me to evaluate a demo. I downloaded 9.0 previously but didn't find time to install it until recently, so I am a little behind your development cycle. I have downloaded several previous versions of Enhancer and used them for the alloted 10 days. My OS is Windows XP Pro with SP2. If Enhancer 9.1 also has the green areas, I will comply with your request and send you a screen shot and one of my image files that evoke the problem.

Actually, most of the JPEG files from our Kodak Z712 IS digital camera display the green areas if you attempt to make fairly large adjustments on Enhancer's sliders. And, as I mentioned above, one of the figures in your Enhancer manual seems to show the green areas. The only way to avoid serious green zone problems is to make very timid slider settings. So it won't be difficult for me to find a file that gives a good display of the problem.

Photoshop has an option to show out-of-gamut color areas, but this green area thing in Enhancer doesn't seem to be an option, and since I wind up with black areas in my processed images, it isn't something I can ignore, either.

I should be able to get back to you with a report on Enhancer 9.1 in 9 or 10 days.

GB

[akvis]

You can use your trial period for the version 9.0 and then new 10 days for the version 9.1.
The evaluation period starts from the first using of the program.

But I guess you will have the same problem with the next version if you use the great value of parameters. If your pictures have green px in dark zone you only increase this color by increasing value of parameters.

By the way, we have this option "to show out-of-gamut color areas" in our wish-list for Enhancer. We are going to add this feature further.

Now please send us your pictures and settings you used.

[greybeard]

Hi AKVIS,

A few hours ago I emailed you a copy of the an original JPEG just as it came from our Kodak Z723 IS digital camera that is one of the many pictures that have had the "green areas" problem. The file was named 100_0631.jpg (as assigned by the camera itself) and was 3072 x 2304 pixels with a file size of 1.75 MB.

You can see a smaller version at original image

I am attached an annotated and downsized version of the file to this message. One of my hobbies is amateur zinnia breeding, and this is a photo of one of my recent hybrids.

GB

[greybeard]

Hi AKVIS,

This is a view of the green areas in Enhancer in the "Default" Enhancer mode.

GB

[greybeard]

Hi AKVIS,

When you Apply Enhancer, those "green" areas turn black. That makes the processed (enhanced) image useless.

GB

[akvis]

hi greybeard,

Sorry for the delay. We were testing your image. Unfortunately we can't reproduce this bug.
We have tried different settings, different profiles. It can't be repeated!

Please give us more detail:
1. Your Color Settings in Photoshop.
2. The Color management in your system - all settings.
3. Your monitor profile.
4. Also please write what video card you use and which driver. Did you set any additional settings for 3D games?

We are looking forward to your reply!

[greybeard]

Hi AKVIS,

I was surprised you couldn't reproduce the problem with the image. The attached image shows my color settings. Incidentally, I am using Photoshop CS (version 8).

GB

[akvis]

Your picture looks good in our computers, indeed we have tested on different machines.

What about other points (2,3,4)? please answer
Your Photoshop settings looks good.

[akvis]

here is my screenshot:

[greybeard]

Hi AKVIS,

That screenshot is interesting. It is showing the same black areas on my monitor screen as the one I produced on my system. If you can't see black areas on that picture, it has something to do with our monitors. I'll import your screenshot into my Photoshop CS and see what I can come up with.

Our Kodak Z712 IS camera uses one of the sRGB color spaces. I get the green/black area problem in Enhancer whether I use that profile unchanged or convert to my normal working space of Adobe RGB. Incidentally, when I view "Out of Gamut" in Photoshop CS, I do see an extensive amount of out-of-gamut in the green foliage areas. My Enhancer 9.0 demo has only one day left, so I will be uninstalling it and installing Enhancer 9.1 demo in a couple of days.

Meanwhile, I will take a closer look at my color management in Photoshop CS. I may also install Enhancer in my Photoshop Elements 5.0. Oddly, it still seems to think that I have older versions of Enhancer and Noise Buster in its Filters list, but says they have expired. Sketch just creates an Internal Program Error and suggests I should re-install the application. Is there any way to make Elements 5.0 "forget" the previous AKVIS demos?

This picture shows the available details about the Kodak color space.

GB

[greybeard]

Hi AKVIS,

I did import your screenshot into Photoshop CS to get a more quantitative idea about the black areas that appear on your version of Enhancer processing on the test image. Your version came from your attachment with no attached profile, so it came into Photoshop with no color modification and no color management.

The attached image shows a sampling of your black area with very low values of R, G, and B. The Eye Dropper tool (visible in the attached screen capture) was reading R=6, G=6, and B=0 at the time of the Print Screen. Those readings fluctuated throughout the area, but remain low with values ranging from 12 down to 0. The G values in that area should have been in the range of 60 to 80. That tells me that you did experience the same problem, or a very similar green/black area problem to the one that I experienced.

Those black (extremely dark) areas are an unsightly blemish that Enhancer produced on your system.

Incidentally, while I concede that the color management settings on my system may not be the best possible, they are fairly good because I produce a lot of good results on my system using other Photoshop filters. I have had these unsatisfactory color results only with the Enhancer demo. Incidentally, my Enhancer 9.0 demo has just now expired, so I will uninstall it and install the Enhancer 9.1 demo for further testing.

The attached picture is rather low quality because of high JPEG compression at your facility followed by additional high JPEG compression on my computer to show the results of color sampling measurements in my Photoshop CS, while staying within the rather stringent 100-KB limit imposed by this forum.

It appears to me that you did confirm my problem, based on color measurements from your image. You can see my attached picture better if you expand it to full screen, because it is rather large in pixel measurements.

GB

[akvis]

hi greybeard!

I have figured that we were talking about different things.

I thought that you meant the defect in the picture "Enhancer green 96K.JPG".
This color is following: R=5 G=165 B=7
We can't reproduce this "effect". I guess, your profile settings is playing here.
It is bug but we can't get it.

Now I see that you mean just the dark area - shadow - under the leaf.
It is dark area and it becomes more dark after Enhancer.
Here you are right, but the tool works in this way. We write that "it strengthens the difference between adjacent pixels having different color gradations". This is so.

So sometimes you can get areas which become more dark and more contrast then you want.

However we are working on this problem. We are going to add a new mode to the program which will work absolutely in a different way. We have tested your picture with our new tool (as a prototype) - it works good.
Also we are going to add Keep/Drop tools for the current Enhancer mode and for this new mode as well as the tools work in the Focus mode.
These pencils will allow you to define the effect areas.

But it will take time, these new features will release not in the nearest future.

As for your question about "the previous AKVIS demos":
If you have the latest versions on your computer just copy the 8bf files from the folder C:\Program Files\AKVIS\Sketch (or\Enhancer) to the PlugIns folder of your image editor.
By the way the new version of Sketch is available with new great effect.

[akvis]

Meanwhile with the current version you can use the masking method as written in the thread:
http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/akv...fic-areas.html