I used the Healing brush to clean the specks in the background as well as specks in the shirt. I used Levels to darken the image slightly. That's all I've done at this point. I can't decide if the picture looks better before or after I darkened it a little. Also, I'm interested in knowing what some of you would do with this picture.

Thanks,
Sylvia Morris

The main thing I would do with this photo (which is basically in very good condition) is find the best way to remove the paper texture.

There are a couple of ways - See if scanning the photo at a different angle lessens the shadows, or you can see if scanning twice, rotating the picture by 180 degrees between scans, and overlaying them helps. This can have very good results though it is fiddly.

Another tool discussed a lot here lately is the free FFT RGB filter. I had a go with this on your picture, and it was only partially successul. I think this might be because the pattern is not across the whole image - but vanishes to white in the background. Do you have an original scan where the pattern is apparent in the background as well?

Finally, Neat Image can also have some success removing paper texture. In this case it would also be more effective if the paper texture was present in the background - in this case so there was a uniform area of pattern to sample.

Attachment 1 is FFT. 2 is Neat Image - results would be much improved with the textured background intact.

You might want to try this tutorial by Flora - Remove Photopaper Texture from Old Photos (http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=140)

This tutorial uses Neat Image and Gaussian Blur.

Thank you both so much. I'm off to work with these techniques. I may have more questions.

Well, I've fallen flat on my face trying both of these techniques. I just don't have enough foundational knowledge to get through this. I do have the original scan as well as the original picture. When I Zoom in, I can see the honey comb pattern in the background of the white area. I did go download Neat Image; however, I don't know how to make it function as a plug-in with Photoshop. When I tried to open the image inside Neat Image as a stand-alone application, it said it couldn't open the image because it was a .tiff file and referenced Grayscale and RGB bit ranges that are acceptable. Can you give me a few more baby-steps to get me a little further along? Thanks.

As it is, Anna, I'm using the Neat Image stand alone demo version.

This version does support TIFF files with NO IMAGE COMPRESSION. However, it cannot save the output to a TIFF file. Only to a JPEG file.

Make a duplicate of your file first and use that duplicate in neat image.

Here's what you do:
1. Duplicate your file. - Click Image - Duplicate

2. Using your duplicate file, Flatten your image - To reduce file size

3. Save duplicate in TIFF format - When you're in the TIFF Options dialog box, under the IMAGE COMPRESSION, click NONE.

4. In Neat Image, open your duplicate file. You probably might want to experiment. I just accept the default setting.

5. In Photoshop, open the output file created from NeatImage, copy it and paste it on top your original file.

6. Here's the thing. Neat Image does a good job of removing noise/texture but it also makes the important details blurry. Add layer mask and with a soft black brush paint over those important details like the eyes, nose, mouth and hair. You can also adjust the opacity of the layer.

Let us know how you did it.

This image is in indexed color mode. Do I need to change it to RBG to do this? Also, after duplicating the image, I'm not sure what you mean about flattening the duplicate image. With the duplicate image selected, the Flatten command is grayed out / not available. Excuse my iliteracy but I thought there would need to be layers for me to flatten an image. I may need a few more detailed baby-steps. Thanks so much for your help.

Stuck again.......... I've got the image duplicated and flatten and opened inside Neat Image. When I tried to do the AutoProfile, it just says NeatImage cannot automatically find uniform area. I've played around in the software but I can't seem to figure out what to do. Any ideas?

Anna - In NeatImage I used the boy's forehead, though I think the background would be better if it does have uniform paper pattern on it. If you have to ignore the NeatImage warning, and see what the result is.

Just want to let you know where I am in the process. I'm showing you the results after putting it through NeatImage. The 'after' result removed all the noise except for on the shirt. Look at how it discriminated. Any thoughts?

What you could try is a couple of different duplicate layers, and use a stronger Neat Image on each. So for the shirt really bump up the noise reduction, and mask out everything but that section to show the 'lighter' de-noising below for the rest of the photo. (This is paraphrasing the tutorial Flora has done on the topic)

I ran the Noise->Despeckle filter about 6 times on the image. It did a pretty good job of cleaning up the moire look in the shadows.

this looks like a halftone or newsprint type image. did you scan it this way or is that the way it was/is?

besides the spottiness/halftone aspect, this image needs some tones, different tones. it's too 'black and white'. the stark white background mixed with his overly white/light face and shirt, gives this image a bit of an overexposed look. darkening the background with some light mixed greys and adding some grey texture to his face would help a lot. try some curves, levels and histogram adjustment to spread out the tones a bit.

Craig

Hello Sylvia,

Regarding your last post, you're doing a good job. To remove remaining pattern/texture, aside from the instructions offered by the others here which would also be very effective, you can also apply Flora's tutorial. She used the Gaussian blur filter.

This is a normal process, Sylvia. Try everything you can.

Kraellin,

I totally agree with you. That's what I needed to hear. I was thinking the same thing but I don't have enough experience to know that's the problem. Caitlin, I maxed out the NeatImage settings on this picture. I'm not sure how to use masking to work with the shirt but I'm going to play with it and see if I can figure it out. Swampy, I'm going to also try your suggestion and see what kind of results I get. I may need more help and I so appreciate everyone's input!

Sylvia

just stay with it, Anna. learn and practice the individual tools until you can just pick up the one you need and use it. there are lots of tutorials and helps in this forum and a great bunch of folks. you can also usually find documentation on your paint program within the paint program, often context sensitive help. check out the manufacturer's site and the various fan/support sites also. often you'll find more help on the fan sites than anywhere.

keep it simple. photoshop is a very complex program and it's very easy to get lost and confused in a hurry. if and when that happens, just go back to before that was the case and find whatever it was that you didnt quite get and go over it again, otherwise you just add confusion to confusion. often it's just a word or symbol. clear that up and then go forward again. and trust me, i've been in that situation way too many times :)

Craig

I ran it back through NeatImage using the shirt as the noise profile. It obliterated all the noise but it does look a bit unnatural as you see in my image. Swampy, I think your version using Noise> Despeckle looks a little more natural. I'm experimenting with Flora's tutorial and I'm at the part where I'm suppose to use a brush to paint the details that NeatImage blurred. I am truely learning this one step at a time. When I began trying to figure out how to use the brush as Flora described, this could be like looking for a needle in a haystack. The brush possibilities are vast. She did say, 'soft brush with 60 to 80% opacity. For someone that has never worked with brushes, all I can think of at this point is, which brush out of all the many, many brushes!

Kraellin, this is the original picture and it's stark lack of color is quite unusual. I'm attaching what it looks like after running it through NeatImage twice. The noise is certainly gone but it looks even more strange!

anna,

yup. that's the 'pasty' look. too much noise/grain/texture removed. i'm always reminded of that movie where robin williams plays a robot that gains intelligence and wants to be 'human'. he looks like a robot and ends up with a guy that can make him look more human. he says a line to robin while he's fabricating his new face. it goes something like, 'it's all about the imperfections'.

one way to remove scan lines and other such oddities, is to add noise, rather than remove it. rather than remove all the one, you add a bit more to fill in rather than remove. you can then blur or smear this around a bit to get a more natural look. it just sort of depends on what you've got to work with.

i'm curious, you said you ran it thru neat image twice. why twice and what did it look like after the first pass?

also, you dont necessarily have to completely remove all the undesirables. sometimes just reducing it is enough. always take a look at your product at a full 1:1 window. that's the sight anyone else is going to see if you post it somewhere.

also, depending on your printer, by reducing less noise than what is there, a printer will actually sometimes reduce noise levels by itself because of how the ink is applied and runs and drys. so, it's a good idea when you think you're somewhat close to what you want, print it and take a look at it that way.

also bear in mind that i'm no expert. flora and some others are masters of noise and skin textures. you might poke them to come take a look at this ;)

Craig

Craig,

If you look at my first post, you'll see the original scan before any adjustments. Then you've seen the one that was run through Neat Image twice. After doing that, I remembered that Flora said to use Neat Image once and then use Gaussian Blur. So this image is what is looks like doing Flora's way and it is a definite improvement over running it through NeatImage twice. Right now, I'm blocked on the next step of using a brush and mask to bring out image clarity. I've sent Flora an e-mail asking if she can help me a little through the next part of her tutorial.

Sylvia

yup. much better :)

is 'neatimage' a part of photoshop or is it a plugin? i dont use photoshop and dont have neatimage as a plugin for paint shop pro, so i'm a bit curious here.

in paint shop pro, there are several tools to bring out image clarity. i'm sure photoshop has these equivalents (and more) as well. try 'sharpen' and 'clarify'. these can help to restore some of the sharpness that gets lost in gausian blurs.

for adding or removing contrast you can use several things also. 'levels' and 'curves' and 'brightness/contrast' in paint shop pro. and again, photoshop will have the equivalents. there are also plugins that can help with this. i use one called 'fast fix' at times.

masks, layers and all that goes with them can be extremely useful. how much do you know about them already?

Craig

NeatImage is a piece of software Flora recommended in her tutorial and provided a link for a free download. She said the free version did everything she needed. It can be a plug-in but I'm using it as a stand-alone piece of software. I have a friend that prefers to use PaintShop Pro over Photoshop. He gave me my Photoshop 7. I'm not very familiar with anything in Paintshop. I've learned a little about layers and I've actually already tweaked it a little with Levels and tried to tweak it a little with Curves. I'm not real comfortable working with Curves. So I know a little about layers but I know nothing about masks yet. I've subscribed to a website called, 'VTC or Virtual Training Company' and it gives me unlimited access to their online video tutorials. That has been a very helpful resource. The next part of Flora's tutorial is dealing with brushes and masks and it's over my head.

ok, i have to laugh a bit at myself here. i have neat image :) it's one of those programs i downloaded in a download frenzy but hadnt looked at much yet. i'm afraid i get like a kid in a candy shop at times when it comes to downloading things.

'curves' is relatively easy. basically, you're dealing with brightness and can adjust the brightness of the different, existing values in an image, all in one operation. to simplify this, you can make the darks lighter or darker, while at the same time making the lights darker or lighter. it's really pretty much that simple. i'm attaching two images to show how this is done, or one way to do it, in paint shop pro.

the stuff in green is stuff i've added to the image. 'input' and 'output' simply mean 'before' and 'after' your adjustments. the two scales of dark to light along the edges of the graph are the ranges of the existing (the top bar) brightness, and the 'after' or 'preview' view.

you make your adjustments in the middle along the dotted line. the first image i've posted is without any changes. the second image shows how i've make the darks, darker and the lights, lighter. you simply left click on the dotted line to add a new point and move that point around the graph to make your adjustments. thus, if you click on the dotted line near the lower left and move it down, your darks will get darker. you can also use the numerical counters on the right side to make alterations, but i prefer just clicking on the graph and adjusting that way. you can add additional points by clicking again on the graph and dragging that point around. this allows you to change almost any value of brightness along the range to almost anything else you want. you can also move the points side to side. and, you can move the same points again by simply clicking exactly on an existing point and dragging it somewhere else.

this can also be done in what is called an 'adjustment layer', which is basically the same tool applied AS its own layer. for now, i'd just use the first method.

as for masks, the theory of masks is pretty simple. the implementation, however, is sometimes a bit confused. the theory is, in a given layer or image, you are adding another layer, the mask layer. in paint shop pro the mask is always in grayscale! always. this mask can be edited to allow the other image within the same layer to show through or not show through. think of the mask as a piece of changing glass. it can be fully opaque or fully translucent or any range of that in between. this 'glass' sits over your other image/layer and hides, partially hides, or doesnt hide the normal image. now, the true beauty of this is that your 'glass' can be all different shades of gray. one part of the glass can be this shade and other parts can be other shades, thus allowing you to mask different areas of your image in different opacities. and the only other part is that you never see the mask itself as part of the image (unless you turn on 'view mask'). and that's it; that's all it is.

you're on the right track. some of the things you're encountering now can be tricky and there's a lot to learn in photoshop. i highly suggest spending time with each tool and getting to know it before moving on. compounding confusion on confusion can lead to frustration, broken furniture, and injured pets ;)

do feel free to ask around here. the folks here are extremely helpful and there's lots of tutorials both here and other places.

Craig