Add your comments, questions or general discussion about the Oct Contest entries as well as the contest itself here. This is also a great place to share your techniques or ask others about theirs.

This one looks like it's going to be fun T Paul! I've got some ideas scooting through my head already!

Now... time for thee inevitable nit-picky question. When you say ""The goal is realism, so try to make your creation as realistic looking as possible", I'm assuming you mean the people, not the overal picture? Because I have some collage ideas, that in themselves are obviously not 'realistic' photos. And the Holoween theme seems to lend itself to photographic effects that you wouldn't descibe as realistic.

When I say "realistic" I mean the people. Since some may choose to add parts to create their "monsters", I want to make sure that the "cut-n-paste" isn't obvious. So if you add features you will want to make sure you match the lighting, perspective and so on.

I know this isn't part of the contest, but thought it was fun.
Click here to see (http://www.chrishoggy.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/chrishoggy.gif)

been looking at the new contest entries.... you people are just warped ;) i love it :)

Craig

I reserve the right to use my powers both for good and evil :devious:

I know this isn't part of the contest, but thought it was fun.Click here to see (http://www.chrishoggy.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/chrishoggy.gif)
:eek: scary !! and very well done Chris !! :bigthmb:
I am having a hard time ghoul-ing those two they are so nice looking I hate to disfigure pictures all the contrary, but well ... its all in the way of learning :wink:

Regards - :wavey: Martha

chris,

nice morph!

i think we shld have a contest in the not too distant future on animations.

Craig

chris,
nice morph!
i think we shld have a contest in the not too distant future on animations.
Craig
Great idea Craig ! I second that :masked:
Though I know who is going to win ;)

Regards - Martha :wavey:

Animated or interactive images in a contest would be gr8 fun. The problem is the file sizes. I suppose we could use one of the many free image hosts to upload the files to instead :D Not too bad for those of us with webspace to use/link to and on broadband, but may be a problem for those on dialup :o:
Still think it would be a fun contest though :D
Would also give good ideas/teachings on using tweening/animation in photoshop and other programs.

Though I know who is going to win

i dont know, martha; look at chris's recent post in this thread. i like doing them, but i'd be hard pressed to beat that... or did you mean yourself? :)

yup, file size and file space is a big limiter on anims. i've had to cut some of mine so badly as to be hardly recognizable at times. luckily, i have a good friend who gives me web space to post some of my stuff.

still, you might be surprised what you can fit in a 100k file space. though i think the normal 800 x 600 pic size requirement might have to be waived :)

Craig

You can get quite a bit in to a .gif file. Something like this Here (http://www.chrishoggy.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/avatars/4.gif) as an example :wink:

Craig wrote:
... i dont know, martha; look at chris's recent post in this thread.
i like doing them, but i'd be hard pressed to beat that
... or did you mean yourself?

:lmao: No ! was thinking about you and your fish in the pond and "The Rose" gift. Of course there must be many talented animation experts in the forum and there is no sure winner. Mine was just a joke :lol:

The animation you posted Chris is a movie type right ? And must be within the 100 kb limitation since you placed it as an example.

Obviously if this idea is taken for a contest there will have to be some revision of the file sizes and download times. Pity though.

OK I think we are waaayy off topic here no ? :shocked:

Regards - Martha :wavey:

To all of the posters so far, your work is excellent ! They all look awful and scary too ;) !!

Mrtam, I could not see the larger image, all I got was the hateful little red X :(

Welll now, will continue trying to disfigure the poor fellows ;)

Regards - Martha :wavey:

mrtam,

like martha, i cannot view your attachment. i get a message saying 'attachment cannot be displayed because it contains errors.'

not sure what file format you posted in or if the file got corrupted when you uploaded it, but you'll need to post another.

Craig

MrTam has been notifed about his image.

On that note, here are some tips for newbies on saving images for the web:

"Save for Web" Option When Saving Images (http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4855) :jacko:

Well people I am sure will have nightmares with snakes and worms and ghouls, I am satisfied --so far-- with the result so I posted my contribution. I am not sure if I will modify or replace it but there it is for now. :wink:

Regards - Martha :wavey:

Hi Guys - I've posted a photo album of all the entries here: http://www.tv83.net/retouchpro/October/ if it's helpful in assessing entries.

There are some damn scary ones in there! :cold:

Thanks Caitlin, didn't realise it was voting time already (have been a bit tied up with other things recently) so haven't downloaded all the images as I usually do.

Your site is a godsend.

Gary

A couple of comments in the voting about none of it being 'realistic' therefore impossible to take that infto consideration when voting.... This is what we mean when we say realistic:

T Paul: When I say "realistic" I mean the people. Since some may choose to add parts to create their "monsters", I want to make sure that the "cut-n-paste" isn't obvious. So if you add features you will want to make sure you match the lighting, perspective and so on.

Obiously fangs and green skin or whatever arent 'realistic' (well actually you can get some fabulous prosthetic fangs) the point is that its believable and doesnt look like a photochop job. Theres a big difference between 'real' and realistic.

NancyJ - Thank you no one ever picked me before, so thanks for adding me, what i saw when i did that picture, was a woman's scorn on halloween, her eyes being green, so she was jealous, and the face it was scarred due to acid, i let you work out the rest. I guess my imagination is alittle deep LOL!

My research was acne scared skin, i overlayed it LOL

Thanks too for the honorable mention!!!

Acid... lovely *shudder*. Great pic :)

Thanks so much, Catilin. That's a lot of work for you. I appreciate it.

Lorraine

Just to clarify my comments on the realism thing.

I was looking at compositing that could have looked like a makeup artist actually did the make-up and then the subject was photographed. This is 'real' in my terms. I agree that this is achieved by blending, shading etc...

A successful composite in my opinion is one where you can't pick the techniques used to get the final result... this gives it the appearance of being real. This applies to any job we do whether it be a restoration, manipulation or retouching.

The only exception is if we are asked to create a piece of art, which is then completely subjective and the techniques play a more important role - just as watercolour, oils or montage for example create different looks in conventional art.

Phew! With that said and done, we're no doubt all here because we love what we do whether it be in a professional sense or not and I'd guess that we all do it because it's loads of fun, so sorry if I got too serious on you all.

Have a great week.

Peth

Seriously, everyone has to be less serious! I asked for clarification from T Paul at the start of the competition about this term 'realism' because I could just tell it was going to turn into a debate again. Her reply was:

"When I say "realistic" I mean the people. Since some may choose to add parts to create their "monsters", I want to make sure that the "cut-n-paste" isn't obvious. So if you add features you will want to make sure you match the lighting, perspective and so on"

Now this still leaves stuff very open, as far as I was concerned it meant I could do what I liked to the overall picture - including effects, textures etc. But I was well aware with my entry I was taking a big risk in people's interpretation of the rules, but as I was happy with my results I decided it wasn't a concern for me.

When it comes down to it I think that the MAIN part of the challenge was to create a cool looking ghoul, and the 'realism' is secondary. Just vote for the ones you like guys and have fun!

Now this still leaves stuff very open, as far as I was concerned it meant I could do what I liked to the overall picture - including effects, textures etc. But I was well aware with my entry I was taking a big risk in people's interpretation of the rules, but as I was happy with my results I decided it wasn't a concern for me.

It shouldnt have been a risk though, there was nothing wrong with your entry - it was in my list till you added the canvas texture - really must learn to leave it alone ;)
Your entry was wonderful and shouldnt be penalised because it was the only 'composition', it was well within the required level of 'realism'. Perhaps the original rules should have been updated with the clarification.

Caitlin - my ghoul was done by blending various parts together (mountain goat skull, jawbone, brain, teeth, tongue, large eye, etc.) together in layers, then drawing the capillaries, veins, blood, brain fluids, small eye. The rest was color and lighting matching.

Once I started with the layers, I couldn't stop. I agree the result suffers from rampant monsteritis, leaving little of the original. :shocked:

Thanks for asking, and thanks for the photo album setup - sure makes for easy viewing!

- Kurt

I think everybody needs to chill out. There should be another rule that states, "If you are go on and on about the rules, don't enter".
This is supposed to be a bit of fun between members, and so far it has started conflict over opinions/interpretations of the rules in nearly every contest. I think it's now a good idea to keep opinions on the rules out of the discussion, and let other members/voters decide for themselves if an image is within the rules or not.
Sorry if this upsets any members, but discussing rules and restrictions really put me off entering this contest. It was one of the reasons I didn't enter the last contest. But as this contest was open and creative, I thought there would be no problems. I came back off holiday a few days ago to find the same thing happening again.
With that in mind, I will cast my vote in this contest, but will not enter another.
It's a shame that a friendly contest can't be exactly that. :depressed

@Bob:
Yeah, I dont like the eyes either, I actually came back to change them when I found out it was voting time already :(

:wavey: Hey guys, I'm hoping my comment when I voted isn't one of those that's causing a stir. To say I don't see much realism, isn't meant as a condemnation, just my reasoning behind my votes. :rwb: Some folks can go on for half a page about why they did or did not vote for this or that. I'm economical, so a sentence or two does it for me. I've enjoyed entering these contests, though I never expect to get many votes because I lean towards artsy-fartsy, and a majority of the votes is always cast for the more objective, so a disclaimer seemed in order. It's easy to get your feathers ruffled in a forum; by nature, I'm a peacemaker, not a feather ruffler. If I ever inadvertently ruffle yours, I hope you'll PM me; I'll 'splain what I meant, give you a virtual hug, and we'll go on our way. Ok, that's a lot of rambling for a Raniday; I'll hush now..............

Ditto to Raniday's comments. With one addition... This contest is a little like American Idol (or Australian Idol Caitlin... we won't mention NZ Idol 'cos it's crap).

But anyway, sometime we agree with the public votes and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we all think Simon is way off the mark and too harsh and sometimes he's bang on the button. That's a huge part of why people are drawn to watch it week after week. It's not likely that Idol will change it's formula and neither should this contest. At least if you don't get any votes you can come back next week, otherwise I'd be completely screwed.

I'm Peth and you've been watching Retouchpro Idol. Goodnight.

You know, rules, no rules it really doesn't matter too much for me. Everyone interprets things differently and that is the whole nature of things. I'm in it for the "flexing of the retouching muscles" If I get a vote or two, great, if not, oh well, I had fun and got to see many other talented people flex as well. Good stuff. :)

i agree with raniday, graphx etc...

We don't really need rules. We are not really being judged on adherence to them and I think we all want to learn/stretch or test our photoshop skills. That said. Why not simply put up monthly images, open the category and say: "Go for it" - everyone gets to vote :vampire: Everyone gets to participate and the "prettiest" voted picture wins. After all, that is the end goal or result of what we are doing..isn't it? No Simons, no Idols, just the best all around picture/ retouch/ illustration/ sketch. Whatever, appeals to people at the end of the month from the various entries wins -

Sean :hat: :oldman:

well, i didnt enter this time, but i certainly read the rules, followed the discussion and looked at all the entries. great work, btw!

to me, the rules were pretty simple. this whole question of 'real' wasnt about if monsters were real or not, it was if monsters were real, what would they look like? make a 'realistic' monster is really pretty simple. how would a good hollywood makeup artist make a monster? and if you then photographed it, why there you go. seems pretty simple to me. all the rules of photographic retouching, restoring, and manipulation would apply. a smudged face is a smudged face. coloring outside the lines is coloring outside the lines. real is more or less based on agreement. if we all see a red ball sitting in the middle of a room, why then we're all in agreement. but if one person sees the ball as blue, then that person is out of agreement. he still sees the ball as blue, however, even if he is out of agreement. so, my reality isnt always the same for everyone else and thus we have disagreements. the trick isnt to get everyone agreeing; the trick is to realize that that's ok that we dont always. :)

Craig

Hey peth, I like your "idol" analogy. I don't mind having rules in the contest. They kind of keep you focused on a goal and still allow creativity in the work.
I am always surprised about how varied the voting becomes, and how the rules are interpreted in so many ways. I wonder if an "open" voting process for members whether they entered or not might be a consideration for a future contest?

Cathy :nod:

Well, I'm going to be me and disagree. If rules exist then they should be followed, in the entries and the voting, otherwise theres no point in having rules. If there were no rules then it wouldnt be a problem and everyone could just do whatever they want and then vote for the one they like the best.
But there are rules, so they should be followed, T Paul goes to the trouble of organising these competitions and he always gives specific instructions and rules, surely you must agree he has some reason for doing so?
If we want to just have a free for all, then why not ask TPaul to not give rules and have free for all competitions, then its fair for everyone, even newcommers who dont know that the general concensus is that rules dont matter and may lose out because they tried to follow the rules.

Either have rules and stick to them, or dont have rules at all - its the only way to be fair.

Craig and Nancyj, I think that you make some very good points.

Cathy

:pleased:

I think there can be a bit of a clash between a desire to keep the competition open to creativity, and setting rules though. Sometimes that can mean there is room for differing interpretations.

T Paul always has an instruction of some kind, but some months (not all) they then generate a lot of debate and questions. Straightforward competitions like restoration, colourisation, retouches (the pasted wedding smile several months ago) etc don't cause a problem. It's the more creative ones like this. Personally I think it would probably be better in cases like this to not give any limitation, because everyone still interprets it differently, and it ends up causing some angst for some people. Where it comes to creative interpretations, it would probably be easier to give everyone free reign.

On the other hand the oil painting last month - became a debate on what an oil painting should look like. Maybe in that case more prescriptive instructions would be one option (eg the old masters)

Peth, being a huge American Idol fan, I love your analogy! Some weeks I want to clobber Simon, but I'll be back next week to watch. And some months I totally don't understand the voting here, but so far, I've been back each month to give it another shot.
Sean2, your suggestion makes sense to me. It's the nature of art to express ourselves freely, and "rules" seem to be getting in our way, making some people feel as if "I followed the rules, and he/she didn't!" Some people are more comfortable with the boundaries laid down by rules. I'm not one of those people. I was always better at essay questions than True/False or fill in the blank.
And finally,
so, my reality isnt always the same for everyone else and thus we have disagreements. the trick isnt to get everyone agreeing; the trick is to realize that that's ok that we dont always. I think you nailed it, Craig. :bigthmb:

I would think anyone entering "felt" they followed the rules,
--- it's those of us who have chosen not to see what the artist has seen that ask the question.


JMHO

well........ I think all this BS'in about the rules is a total waste of good energy that could be used to further your abilities instead of trying to figure out what the stupid rules mean that aren't even followed in the first place! So it all doesn't really matter anyway does it?!
:grin:
hugs!
Loverly

well I didn't really follow the rules ... and I don't expect to get votes and win either ;) ... but I am selfish, the time I spend on retouchpro is for fun and learning and helping out (probably in that order;) ) ... so I enter what I was inspired to do anyway. One of these times I will do something that just so happens to follow the rules and it will be be pretty good and everyone will feel I did a good job following the rules and maybe even get a few votes ... it will happen - I just know it will ... ;)

:eek: Man, I lose my internet connection for a few days and look what I come back too. Perhaps I should make the next contest “Guidelines” vs. “Rules”. Smile.

Well, it looks like every contest will create a “discussion,” but that’s not necessarily a bad thing... although I don’t want to chase people away. The goal here is to learn, motivate, and sharpen skills. Doug and I try to choose an assortment of themes to challenge a variety of skills. The purpose of the rules is to focus you in the right direction. Eventually...perhaps (no promises), things will get ironed out. I didn’t want to micromanage the rules too much, because I didn’t want to stifel someone’s creativity. However, it looks like November’s contest will most likely be very detailed in the rules section.

Basically remember this is for fun and try not to get too wound up. If you have concerns/questions that is what the discussion thread is for. Type away or PM me. If you are concerned about your approach to a contest, just ask. If you have a concern about someone’s entry, pose the concern in the discussion thread.

P.S.

T Paul is a she. :kisses:

yah know, I always thought T was a she ----- but then thought OK maybe I am wrong! :surprise:



Good to know some times I am right! LOL :square:


Great job T --- always a pleasure participating in the forum.

oh. lol. i always thought T was a man. i really gotta start paying more attention.

Craig

Its probably the paul thing, Even if its a surname rather than a first name, it gives the name a male identity. Also women tend to be less offended by being assinged male gender than the other way around ;)
Then again, it might not be her name at all... my name isnt Nancy ;)

You know, rules, no rules it really doesn't matter too much for me. Everyone interprets things differently and that is the whole nature of things. I'm in it for the "flexing of the retouching muscles" If I get a vote or two, great, if not, oh well, I had fun and got to see many other talented people flex as well. Good stuff. :)

Very well said and I feel the same way.

While I try to go by the rules, I'm finding that my interpretation through my entries is not what appeals to the masses. I keep entering because I enjoy the work immensely, and I'm trying to improve as I learn from everyone else.

Lorraine

Wow Lorraine, thank you!!!

Got the giggles now... :lmao:

I never thought i'd get picked, so much appreciate the mention!!!

Art is not about going along with the masses, its about how you see art, if its totally different to the next person then you got good taste, for instance, i cannot do horror in the sense of false looking blood as in horror films, i just don't have that imagination, sad but my imagination wants people to look better not worse so i did kind of struggle with this one, now if it was my imagination was in words, i would be good at that!!!

Legacy~Art,

Your intent came through loud and clear to me. You depicted "A woman's scorn goes wrong" perfectly. :evil:

You did a great job in destroying her skin, but still kept it so real looking. I have no idea how that's done. I wish I did.

I'm not into the goulish style either. I'm more the "Psycho" type. Reality is lot scarier than fiction. :devious:

Lorraine

Lorraine

All i actually did was google "scar tissue" and it came up with a face that was highly acne, so i removed the cheek, and stretched it over the girls face, and then changed opacity, and added it as screen, had to do this about 3 times to get the effect i thought looked abit like acid. I have never met anyone with acid scars, but my imagination again, and the eyes, i used the copy and paste and then erased out the iris's to show him in her eyes, and we all have heard of the green eyed woman the womans scorn are always shown as green eyes LOL!

Legacy~Art

Thanks so much for sharing your techniques. I think it's going to take a lot of practice on my part to achieve the results you did. :happy:

Lorraine

Well done Cazubi. Look forward to seeing your steps :happy:

I have a question about voting - is the order you put the name in important? ie is it a rated vote or is it just number of votes? I was originally going to put my votes in no specific order but then I read that they had to be 1-5 in order. Should I be very careful about the ordering?

Hi Nancy - yes, a 1 vote gets 5 points, a 2 vote gets 4 points etc. So the order is very important.

Hi Nancy - yes, a 1 vote gets 5 points, a 2 vote gets 4 points etc. So the order is very important.

Good job I didnt put them in any old order ;) Going to pay extra special attention this month though.

NancyJ - I haven't counted the votes but it must have been really close this month!

NancyJ - I haven't counted the votes but it must have been really close this month!

If you take my name out of there (*suprised*) then I got the top 3 in the right order :D

Wow, this is exciting. Thanks to everyone for their votes and comments. I know that this had to be a close race because there were so many awesome entries. I know my entry was gruesome (my grandchildren are shocked) but I really enjoyed the process of making it. This makes my husband a little nervous (LOL). I will post my steps later today.

Cathy
:lmao:

hehe, cathy, try not to scare the hubby and grandkids too much. nice job and congratz!

Craig

Congrats Cazubi! Look forward to seing the steps required to accomplish your image!

Congratulations Cathy.

Awesome entry! :bow:

Does your Husband keep looking over his shoulder??? :lol:

Cheers

Looks like I miscalulated the results.... :blush:

Correction
The top 10:
Cazubi - 58
NancyJ - 52
Bob Down - 49
Shalford - 30
Tie - Grafx & Chrishoggy - 26
Tie - Delong72 & Lorraine - 23
Caitlin - 22
KayakBob - 11

Here are the steps as I remember them for making my “creature” man.

Background: black and white photos of graveyards, red layer in overlay mode with opacity adjustments.

Man layer: eliminated the background and cleaned up the edges of hair and skin so it would not look cut out.

Monster mask: I found a very scary mask picture and put it over the man layer. I masked out all the area around the hair, forehead, and some around the eyes. I colored the man layer so that it would match the color of the mask. I did a lot of blending on these layer to get the right look.

Moldering skin: new layer over man/mask. Set layer to bevel & emboss, style>inner bevel>direction>up>then blending options>opacity 0>blend mode normal. I then selected a brush that would give me uneven indentations. The only thing that shows on this layer is an embossed area wherever you paint your strokes. I added another layer to tint with color.

Blood drips: Alien Skin 4000, water drops.

Thanks again for all the votes and feedback.

Cathy
:wavey:

Thanks for sharing the technique Cazubi!! :grin:

Kudos Cazubi for being so kind and including your steps as well as working photos!! :bigthmb:

Congratulations, Cazubi and thanks for showing us your techniques.

Lorraine

Conratulations to all, there were some excellent entries, and I'm honoured to have made it into the the top 10 with such talented folks.