Add your comments, questions or general discussion about the April Contest entries as well as the contest itself here. This is also a great place to share your techniques or ask others about theirs.

Maybe it is just me, but I am feeling a bit paralized by the not glamour but retouch but still a snapshot thing. Wondering what would be appropriate to do with the pic. Would love to hear everyone's opinions on this.

Dawn

I wish someone could translate this to an understable english:

"The goal is to just make it more flattering while keeping the snapshot look"

What does mean "more flattering", this is the base of the contest, but I don't know what to do.

Further clarification coming soon...

Seems like definition time comes around again....

As I see it a GLAMOUR retouch uses the original image only as a base, nothing guarantees that the final image will look anything like the person in the original shot - so everything goes. The only thing that matters is the final image produced, there is no need to fairly represent the subject.

For a portrait that is not glamour, the best word we've come up with (up to now) is PORTRAIT retouch. With this you must respect the initial subject.
You may make some improvements here and there but anyone who looks at the final image should recognize (without doubt) the original subject.

Resume:
Glamour: Final image is everything;
Portrait: Semblance to the original is obrigatory, improve as possible.

T, I was trying to help. If I got it wrong - just holler, OK?

Rô

Ro, I would totally be on the same page as your except for the stipulation that it must still look like a "snapshot". Portrait to me says professional and professional to me does not say "snapshot". This may be just me. But, I am patient. I will wait for further clarification. :grin:

Dawn

Spot on!

Thanks Rô!

(I was running my page long explaination by Doug, but I like yours better...short and to the point) :)

Thanks TPaul and Ro! The clarification is very much appreciated.!
:thumbsup:

Dawn

To me it means, make her look more photogenic. Make the image look like a non-pro, snapshop pic but make it so the picture is flattering to the subject.

The poor kid's got spots, teenage greasy skin, eye bags, her hair is tied back scruffily, her bra straps are showing and someones shoved a camera in her face ;). It doesnt mean she's not a pretty girl - but this picture probably isnt one she'd want shown around school ;)

My interpretation of the breif is to make the picture look like a realistic snapshot (no arty stuff) but addressing the 'non-permanent' flaws on the subject.

Sorry to be painful but would I be right in saying that applying makeup and giving her a bit of a hairdo is acceptable but giver her a nose job and lipo is not... that's how I see it. Yes? No?

By non-glamour retouching, I am hoping to see more natural retouching and subtle changes verses high level changes such as digital plastic surgery and fashion model make-up.

Slight Changes such as red eye removal, color/tone corrections, removing or smoothing lines and wrinkles, whitening whites, removing fly-away hair, blemish removal, slight skin smoothing, removing dark circles under eyes, hiding bra straps and such. These are slight changes that if done the person would still be recognizable as that person.

Higher level changes that would qualify more as glamour retouching would be digital plastic surgery where you really alter a person. Examples of this would be changing features such as shrinking a nose, reshaping lips, removing body weight, changing hair color/eye color, adding extensive make-up, hair extensions and so on.

Think I've got it now... more challenging than it looks in a way... could be another close one!

I'd just like to say that they chose this picture because it didn't 'capture my natural prettiness' (well others were rejected because they did, apparently).

So be nice when you pick on my bra straps and spots, people! I was told to eat french fries before snapping!!!! Those spots are on purpose!!!!! lol

oh I forgot to ask am I ineligible to enter?

I'd love to see your entry and thankyou for being so brave as to post a pic of yourself for us all to do our worst on! Can't as I'd pluck up the courage. Damn those french fries!!!

This is a really interesting task. In explaining the job at hand to my wife I think I solved it for myself. I tried to think of the scenario where someone would want to retouch this pic and came up with the idea that if it were a 'real' job, it might have been because there was only one picture taken of you when you were 16, 17 or 18 (for arguement's sake) and you didn't want to remember yourself quite in that way.

With that in mind I thought if you hadn't just had a camera shoved in your face and had you had a little time to do your hair nicely and splash on a bit of lippy etc, then that's what your retouch should look like.

So that's what I'm doing.. or trying to do anyway. As always I'm learning so plz forgive me if the results don't turn out quite right!

Onya girl.

Peth

I think your description sounds good - trying to make the 'only' photo more flattering, as if it were better set up/lighted etc, a good photo of the same subject.

Will I take the compliment on the age range you offered? LOL This is me last week, at 24 :) lol It was about 3am however!

I guess, seeing as I'm here and all, in my opinion when I have a look at what you all do, I'll be judging based on 'does that still look like me', and knowing me I guess I have a better idea of what I *can* look like if I bother, lol.

:grin: I love the idea to retouch a member's pic, really, I was wondering if could be possible just for fun to make a challenge to retouch our own photo, it could be fun.

Ok, I'll ask my female coworker to remove your bra strips, that way I will not get close to that area to respect :)

Hi aylaah...I was just wondering if you want the bra in or out of the picture?

I think your description sounds good - trying to make the 'only' photo more flattering, as if it were better set up/lighted etc, a good photo of the same subject.

Will I take the compliment on the age range you offered? LOL This is me last week, at 24 :) lol It was about 3am however!

I guess, seeing as I'm here and all, in my opinion when I have a look at what you all do, I'll be judging based on 'does that still look like me', and knowing me I guess I have a better idea of what I *can* look like if I bother, lol.
wow, you're older than me (just)
Alas, mother nature has not been so kind to me :(

Hey guys, I just noticed that there are a few entries that haven't got the member names as the file names. You may want to edit and reload your files to make the voting process easier... by the looks, it's gonna be hard enough as it is!!! For instance, if you call your entry Aylaah I'm might give the votes to Aylaah instead of you!

Hooroo for now,

Peth

Wow, a lott of entries allready, this one is going fast.
I did noticed btw that some of you don't have de required size. Ferdberfel, something went wrong again. I hope you can fix in time.
Aylaah, what exactly are the bra straps? I thought it was the purple straps, am I wrong?

Hannibal, I'd be a wee bit concerned if Aylaah was wearing her bra over the top of her blouse! Ithink whatever's underneath is safe to be regarded as bra of nature. ;)

Ferdberfel, what programme are you using? If it's photoshop then you can use the save for web option to solve your probs.

At this rate of entries voting could take another month!

The purple thin straps are a dress, with bra-like straps so I understand the confusion - the black ones are the real straps though.

Oops I didn't name my file properly either, so I better do that too, thanks for the reminder!

Too late. I already made the black straps the dress straps. I suppose it doesn't matter in that we can't see the below.

Nice picture. You look young for your age. That's a compliment btw.

Janet

You're absolutely right, it doesn't matter at all!

Thanks for the compliment, lol

Cathsaigh, very funny dude. Aylaah, what have you been up to?

Huh? Don't understand the context of the question, up to with regard to what? lol Its too early :( (1:30pm, I'm only 'alive' after midnight, haha)

I'm loving the entries though, its nice to see you didn't all go oooh no way, and leave it lol.

Hahaha Aylaah, what have you been up to that there is a mugshot of you! :lmao:

lol I saw the post here before the mugshot! LOL Ahh I guess they finally caught up with me, hey?

Gawd my family will love that one, mummy is a criminal!!! lol

wow, you're older than me (just)
Alas, mother nature has not been so kind to me :(

Ahh, Nancy, I'm nearly twice as old as you both, and all I can say is that Mother Nature has had quite a bit of fun with me over the years. I've been twisted and pulled, and injured in the process.. as an artist I'm patient, the finished sculpture is bound to be one of beauty to a discerning eye. My husband tells me tree bark can be heartbreakingly more beautiful than flower petals, if one just stops to take in the perspective.

Ehh.. I'm thinking it's a lighting issue, but it does give me hope:) I'm sure you're just lovely:)

Mig,

How did you manage the elongation and maintain such nice perspective?

Very nice!

SEan

I notice very few submissions seem to be meeting the 600x800 criteria?

I notice very few submissions seem to be meeting the 600x800 criteria?

Mea Culpa :(

I got so used to limiting posts on another forum to 600px max that I forgot. Have corrected the image size in my submission with no other changes to the image.

Ok then, I did all the work in Photoshop CS2.

Firstly I seperated Aylaah from the background. Next, I removed any blemishes and harsh highlights with the healing brush. Taking care not to remove any permanent skin features.

I then started to apply some makeup. A little deepening of her lips, overall foundation, blusher, eye shadow... incidentally I got the tip for using lilac eyeshadow with green eyes from about.com, a bloke like me wouldn't have a clue otherwise! This makeup was applied using various layer effects such as colour, overlay, multiply and screen - usually at very low opacities like 12%... so quite subtle.

I added a little mascara and darkened her eyebrows using the multiply layer effect.. oh, and gave them a slight tweeze.

Removed the bra straps obviously

I was then fairly happy but felt that her hair could be a little more casual and softening so I did a big hunt and managed to find some hair donors that I could seperate the background from. I did that by picking the channel with the most contrast and adjusting the levels until it was almost black & white. I then filled in the rest with a brush and used the channel as a selection to delete the background. With the hair now seperated, I used different sections to create the hair at the back and more over Aylaah's forehead... My wife Tina just came in and said it looks like a Pixie Cut? Wouldn't know what that is but she didn't hate it so it can't be all bad.

Lastly I found a background to complete the composition and give it a true snapshot feel. It had to be an interior shot as she was photographed inside and the lighting is so different outdoors.

There we are, I'm sure I must have forgotten a few steps but I'm tired so that's that.

Here's my entry (for review not entering contest). I'm not as brilliant as others here at posting images directly in. :dizzy:

Maureen

Just a friendly reminder that you must provide your entries as attachments and not links. :dizzy:

THANKS

its hard to get it exactly 600x800 considering its more square and you dont want to crop too much off of it

600x800 is hard when my original isn't that size, it is a very square picture. If I'd realised before now I would have originally saved it at that size so the before had been that size - sorry!

4. Your final image size should be as close to 800 px on the long side and 600 px on the short side as possible. Also remember that the file cannot be larger than 100KB.

So as long as you get close to 800 px on the long side..it's okay if the short side isn't quite at 600px due to proportions....

oops, i went for height lol

I can't believe how many of you are making me look like my sister!!

Well, I probably can, we look very alike for half-siblings. Mind you she's in her mid 30's, a good 10 years older than I am!!

lol

Aylaah - I like your new hairstyle compliments of gmbun.

May I take this oppourtunity to introduce myself. Hi everyone, I am Camile, lol not really. I just happened across site today and love it! Lol
My poor husband has lost me yet again to a forum!

I look forward to much much more interaction.

Question regarding the contest. I think I have the concept down, but as there are so many wonderful yet different entries I am confused.

I for the first time in my life submitted something, but now wonder if the below image would have fit the criteria also? I didn't think so, so I didn't submitt it!

I am not a professional, so don't judge my attempts to harshly.

Glad to be here!

probably no would be the answer - although as you can see from the entries it is all relative, lol. My take is that they need to look like anyone took the picture - it is more about making the subject (moi) look a bit nicer, like the shot taken by anyone was taken at a good time of the month (lol) and when the subject was looking pretty :)

But in saying that, I like the one here :)

This is going to be our most popular contest by a large margin. Guesses as to why?

1. Because there are SOOOOO many problems with my mug that too many people saw it and felt so sorry for me, that they couldn't not work on it :aghast:

2. Because everyone loves me so much as a member that they just had to :)

lol

I have no idea, but its either a massive insult or fantastic compliment!

You are a brave girl. I wouldn't put my picture up here, none of them!

I am interested in seeing the everyone's reaction to whether or not I am within the rules. To me it looks like a snapshot, just on a good day, so to speak. I think its 'age appropriate' make-up and attire rather than 5th avenue. (Or is it 'age appropriate' when I was YOUR age?!) Despite the addition of the poney tail, it doesn't look like she just got back from the salon..

I finally had to call it 'done' and submit it. Not being a pro, I am certain to have spent far too much time on it. My lack of a polished process caused all sorts of clean-up problems and I still left some smuginess and imperfections. Besides, I felt like we were developing a relationship, and I am far to old for you sweetie.

This is going to be our most popular contest by a large margin. Guesses as to why?

Because it was a photo of a member?

Besides, I felt like we were developing a relationship, and I am far to old for you sweetie.

LOL Well there's also that part about me being already married....hehehe

I don't know if it's too far. It still looks like me which is a step in the right direction. Even so I think a lot of people are struggling with stopping and how far to go, and there are just so many things that can be fixed in that pic, lol.

This is going to be our most popular contest by a large margin. Guesses as to why?

More entries than the previous months contests, because required retouch not too complicated? :nod:

My goal was to keep the photo as realistic and recognizable as possible. Therefore, I didn't do any plasticizing of skin or manipulating of cheeks, chins, etc. I worked hard to keep pores visible but did tone them down a bit. I added a touch of blush, eye makeup, and lipstick, with a touch being the operative word. I removed what I later learned were the dress straps and went for the black as they were easier :) . Of course, levels were adjusted to the numbers rather than to the eye, which changed skin and hair tones. On my monitor, it at least looks real.

The thing that bothered me most about the whole picture was the background. Having changed many a diaper in my time, I couldn't justify leaving the background the original color. Forgive me if I went too far; but I'm sure mothers will agree as to the change (I hope). The image is sized exactly to 800x600 pixiels.

Regardless of the outcome, the journey was worth it.

Janet

I wanna tell ya, voting for this contest is going to be more work than entering it! WOW, 74 entries with more than 1/3 (26) from brand new members. I sure hope we see and hear more from all these new members elsewhere on the forums.

Since I worked on this for a while and am new to the site I would like to post the image for the contest, realize it wouldn't be qualified to compete but would appreciate any constructive critism.


Guess I will pay better attention to deadlines from here on out, oh well live and learn :blush:

wow, so many entries and so hard to choose... I wonder who is going to be brave enough to be the first one to vote... anyways all the best to everyone... :wavey:

Seems Aylaah was the first to vote.

Not too sure that's appropriate, as her opinion must surely influence the vote.

Perhaps it would have been better to have withheld it till the end.

To avoid influence of this kind, I try never to look at how others vote before I've voted myself. (Obviously I've broken that rule this time, however I didn't note who she'd voted for, so hopefully it won't influence my choice).

Please post the votes in the voting thread...do not PM them to me. That was a typo on my part (copied an old contest and didn't catch that change). So far no one has PMed me.

I agree with Gary about the voting. Maybe Aylaah would be willing to remove her votes until the rest of the voting has been completed, so it doesn't influence others too much?

I can do that if you like, I assumed people would have gone through and worked out their votes before entering the voting thread though. My choices are also probably based on slightly different criteria, since I know what I look like at my best, and you all don't, lol.

But if it seems like I would sway others, then I'll take them off and put them back up on the last day if you like.

I've made a photo album of all the entries, in case it is useful for people making their decisions. http://www.tv83.net/retouchpro/April06Entries/

Please I'd appreciate it if this link *WAS NOT* posted on other sites. Thanks.

Thanks Caitlin, you've saved me a lot of downloading this morning.

I'll take them off and put them back up on the last day if you like.

Hi Aylaah, thanks, might be best. It may be I'm worrying needlessly, but after seeing how seriously some members took last months contest, anything that members may think influences voting should be avoided.

IMHO, no votes should be shown until everyone has voted and voting is closed.

Agree 100%
IMHO, no votes should be shown until everyone has voted and voting is closed.


Caitlin, kudos to you!!! Great idea! I would love to see the photo album the standard mechanism when it comes time to vote for anything.

Wow Caitlin,
Very nice... wish that was up when I voted...
Great idea Frank!
~Nancy~

I did a quick entry so I could vote, as I have been quite busy. I missed the issues raised on the last contest, but have read them now :aghast: :aghast: :aghast: .
I thought all the issues with contest rules/voting had been covered many times, and cleared up in past discussions? Seems I was wrong and people still bring this up, rather than just getting on with entering a contest for the fun of it.

Oh well, I'm sure it will all come out in the wash :dizzy: .

I did a quick entry so I could vote, as I have been quite busy. I missed the issues raised on the last contest, but have read them now :aghast: :aghast: :aghast: .
I thought all the issues with contest rules/voting had been covered many times, and cleared up in past discussions? Seems I was wrong and people still bring this up, rather than just getting on with entering a contest for the fun of it.

Oh well, I'm sure it will all come out in the wash :dizzy: .
It is interesting how people interpret the rules. Gigadals posted that his vote was based on not touching the white line or the bg, to follow the rules, yet chose submissions that did not follow the #4 800x600 (or as close to) format rule... one was 623x550 - not anywhere near close....go figure, lol!

~Nancy~

hi nancy,

i'm sorry, i must have missed that part, when i viewed the entries, i didn't check on the image sizes, can i vote again?

Giga

hi nancy,

i'm sorry, i must have missed that part, when i viewed the entries, i didn't check on the image sizes, can i vote again?

Giga
Hi Giga,
I don't have a clue, and I don't think it is that big of a deal. It is all in fun anyway. :)

~Nancy~

___________________________________________________
www.fixthepixs.com

Hi Nancy,

ur reply is quick!

i did a check on my votes, my #1 is way off the the required size, which makes him disqualified, i guess my 1st runner up is my 1st now?

hahaha! now its a mess... :lol:
it was real fun, the contest i mean.. :pleased:

Giga

Hi Nancy,

ur reply is quick!

i did a check on my votes, my #1 is way off the the required size, which makes him disqualified, i guess my 1st runner up is my 1st now?

hahaha! now its a mess... :lol:
it was real fun, the contest i mean.. :pleased:

Giga
Yep, just taking a break and playing on the site. This was a fun contest and so many entries made it difficult to judge. It was great of Caitlin to put up the photo gallery which list all the entry names and sizes (I only wished I waited to vote until she did it!).
If you look at post number 5 on this thread, Ro, clarifies the contest criteria, post number 7 is T-paul's agreement. Combine that and the rules set up in the contest tread... YIKES ....just have fun!

~Nancy~

_______________________________________________
www.datepixs.com

hi nancy,

i'm sorry, i must have missed that part, when i viewed the entries, i didn't check on the image sizes, can i vote again?

Giga


No. Once you vote that's it as I usually tally the votes as they come in. So if you change your votes once you have posted them, your changes will not be reflected in the results.

From April 06 Contest Votes
.........We all wanted to go further, we all wanted to change the background, but changing it makes it not the original ain't it? Even the simple removing of the white line alters the original. Nobody would have not noticed that white line, but removing it, that you would have to consider.

So, i voted only on those who did not touch the bg and the white.

It seems you approved of cropping the pix on the sides but not the cropping out of the white at the bottom???

--------------

I for one, didn't give too much importance on the pic's size (800x600). If I were to follow the rules explicitly, then I would have to disqualify those that didn't name their files correctly, etc, etc.

I just judged based on what I thought looked right. Not an easy task, I'm sure you'll agree, with 74 entries!

Everyone keeps saying "its just for fun", but honestly, look how competitive we all are.

It was my first contest and in my opinion newcomers were at a distinct disadvanged. For instance, I read the rules, and as ambiguous as they were, it never occured to me that "rules" could be modified by "discussion".

What client would define "snapshot" in such a way? If you wanted to salavage a bad snapshot I would think that an awful mustard yellow background would be fair game. How can you justify fixing, selecting, or removing multiple garment straps but not allow us to dress her in something completely appropriate for her age and look? And, if her hair has that 3AM and I haven't been washed in 2 days look shouldn't we think do something for it?

I say all this in consideration of what I considered the overarching requirement to be; that it is to remain a snapshot and not a glamor shot. And, exactly of what real-world importance is the dimension exact pixel dimension of the photo? As stated it just seemed to be a reasonable limit because of and based on the 100K requirement?

Ambiguity necessitates interpretation.

I for one was merely happy to measure my ability against the more experienced and professional people here. All this post-bickering clouds the idea of it being a fair measuring stick.

The solution is to more carefully consider the rules in advance of publishing them. Make sure that any and all criteria for disqualification is carefully stated. Perhaps a little (read tiny, like 2 or 3 senior people) peer review would help? Finally, let the rules stand as published and avoid discussion and clarification.

Regardless, I can't wait until the next contest. It was fun!

Hi Blue Dog,

I usually try to avoid the contest discussion as much as possible, too much bitching.

I enter only for the fun. If my interpretation of the rules is "wrong", I don't give a f...... its not important. Seems you have a similar attitude, wish a few more did.

:bow: :bow: :bow: Fully agree with both the above posts !!!!!

Friendly competition is the only rule that should be most important here. It's not as if we are competing for a £1,000,000. cash prize, is it?

My first place (so far) hasn't followed the rules to the letter, but I liked the end result. In fact if I worked to the rules strictly, the image would be disqualified :cry:

It was Fun to retouch the image

It was Fun to see how others retouched the same image

and it is Fun to see the voting results.

Regardless of bg changes, white lines, and size , it is FUNNY how the votes are all over the place

The votes count no matter what. AND YES, IT WAS FUN!!! From working on the image to the judging process. I like looking at the different interpretations :happy:

I would really like to know how the others worked on their image.

If you look at post number 5 on this thread, Ro, clarifies the contest criteria, post number 7 is T-paul's agreement. Combine that and the rules set up in the contest tread [/url]

Damn... I didn't see that! :mad:
Would be nice if that stood in the Contest-thread!
I think more people missed that part!
But I totaly agree that the contest is for fun. But I also see it as a learning experience. I must admit that I am a little pissed of now I realize that I wasted my time working on the image because I misunderstood the rules.
And please don't think that I am a bad loser. I didn't expect to win all the contests after my last month's score.
But like I said, I see it as a learning experience. If I misunderstand the instructions a client gives me, and he discontinues doing business with me... than that is not fun at all.

Ah... then, HannibalVector, I suspect you didn't see post number 11 herein either, where our moderator clarifies even more. Yeah, easy to miss AND still somewhat vague -- no mention of the validity of changing the background or what "hiding bra straps" really means, both of which seems to have become controversial during the voting stage.

My concern is not based on winning/losing either, but agree that time spent on a contest (were it solely "just for fun", there'd be no need for a prize -- this IS a competition!) with dubious guidelines (can't say "rules" as there is no apparent enforcement) ends up being quite disheartening. Not to mention that voting is also difficult considering these circumstances.

Additionally, since the "contest" seems to be a major draw for new members, I fear they'll also be put off and dissuaded from further participation. This can't be good for the community.

I mean, gee, this sort of thing is not that difficult to administer.

1. Post general rules for contest entries (see Worth1K, DPChallenge, etc.)
2. Establish specific rules, criteria and guidelines for each specific contest if appropriate.
3. Accept entries until a deadline, but don't show them until then, especially since these contests tend to use a common base and results are comparable. E.g. "I'll wait to submit until the very end so I can tweak my entry based on others' efforts."
4. If an entry is submitted that fails to meet #1 or #2, remove it from the contest. Email the contestant with reasoning for disqualification and perhaps allow another submittal or ???.
5. Reveal all entries to eligible voters all at one time. Don't ID entries with user names as this may enable "popularity" voting -- keep this aspect completely anonymous.
6. Don't reveal any vote results until after voting is closed. Again, this prevents "popularity" voting and the tendency to "go with the flow" if indecisiveness strikes.
7. Voters should be required to "rate" EVERY other entry, perhaps on a 1-10 point basis. This provides feedback for every entrant. The winner then is simply the one garnering the most "points".
8. If there are finishing "places", each place should be awarded a "prize", even if it is only a special certificate issued by the community suitable for framing and display -- legitimate bragging rights, if you will.

Just my 2 cents. This is a discussion forum, right?

Hi,
Im new here. Im keen to vote on this but theres a lot to go through, and I havent had a chance yet. :normal:

I guess snapshot is pretty open to interpretation. At the end of the day the ones with the most votes will be the ones who are closest to what was required in most peoples eyes. Too many rules and peoples creativity may be hampered.

I might tend to agree with not showing the votes until voting is over....the tendency to go with the flow or vote who you know seems to happen even if I try not to look at names at all. Perhaps hiding the usernames on the images before voting would have the same effect. This is the way they do things on most other sites and there doesn't seem to be these arguments every month. I would be interested to hear what others think.

-Kate

LonK,

Your decomposition of requirements into "General Requirements", that is , relating to all contests, only overriden by "Specific Requirements", meaning those additional requirements that apply uniquely, as least for now, to this contest rather than contests in general, .....betrays your educational background, or at least your prediliction to logical deductive thought. (Now, is that a run on sentence or what? It might be most impressive if I knew how to punctuate it.)

As much as I try, its so difficult to retrain myself to think and write and speak as normal, non-intellectually driven people do. (That is a test. If you are angry, maybe even just a little, then you didn't read the above properly. If you chuckled, then you clearly understood it to be the self-deprecating humor that it was meant to be.)

Fact is, I should probably go now. Its 9:30, dinner still hasn't happened, but my aperitifs did..at least twice.

This IS fun!........where is the "drunken sailor" smiley?

Just wanted to pick up on a point that Lonk mentioned in a previous post, about leaving feedback for each entrant. A lot of people have put a lot of time and effort into this competition and I think that it's a shame that there isn't really an avenue for critiquing the entrants, en mass. I don't know about anyone else, but I am really proud of my enterpretation and would love to hear what people think about it to, even if they didn't like it. To me it's all a learning process and surely that's why we're all here.
I entered last months contest and was delighted to hear from Doug Colwell who had taken the time to investigate an issue that had been raised with my entry. I can't tell you how much it meant to me that someone had gone out of their way to help me. That was why I came here and it is why I am still here. So, to try and promote the whole community thing and enter into the spirit of the site I'm going to try to contact everyone who entered and give them my honest opinion on their work, being as constructive as I can, without going off on a tangent.

Please feel free to do the same...

I understand there needs to be rules/guidelines to follow, but how do you monitor a contest like this and who would want to? We are all busy and nobody has that kind of time. And everyone has different interpretations. Ya know it is just for fun! I get paid to retouch photos. I'm not getting paid for this, so it just isn't that big of a deal. I do think it is a lot of fun to watch though, like a train wreck waiting to happen, lol. I do have a suggestion: Maybe the contest rules could be posted and discussion thread started sometime prior to the contest. Then everyone can hash out exactly what we are looking to accomplish... just a thought... nobody hurt me okay? lol... :rolleyes:
~Nancy~

______________________________________
www.photoart123.com

The same arguments every freakin' month. We need a Contest FAQ.

1) This is not a commercial site. We have no revenue or working budget. Also, I am not a programmer, nor am I partners or friends with any programmers. The alternative voting systems, even if I wanted to go that route, would cost thousands of dollars to implement. Instead of asking you to pay for hiring a programmer I ask for your patience, understanding, and help with some of the labor (ie: mucking through all the entries yourself to find your 5 favorites).

2) While this is not a commercial site, this is a "professional" contest (though all levels are welcome). In a professional environment you are expected to work with as little supervision as possible. In fact, in a non-contest environment, excellent output is assumed and what allows one professional to rise above others is all the factors besides artistic talent. Yes, in a real professional environment you can get fired for asking too many questions (notice how employment ads frequently mention "self-starter", "self-sufficient", etc.).

3) Vote with your vote, not with your debating skills. The winner will not only be the best final image, but also the one that most people feel best interpreted the rules. If you're worried your vote will influence other votes, vote on the last day. If you're worried other votes will influence your votes, don't look at the other votes. If you're worried other peoples' votes will influence the votes of others, get a life.

Thanks Doug, I think that clears it up! And a big thanks to Caitlin for putting up the photo library to make it easier to sift through all the entries!
~Nancy~

Doug,

I would add one further point:

4) If you don't feel comfortable with the guidelines and/or don't agree with them, don't participate.

Very simple.

The same arguments every freakin' month. We need a Contest FAQ.
...
influence the votes of others, get a life.

Caitlin,

Thanks so much for the gallery!!!!

Lorraine

BTW - I didn't put the dimensions of the images in the photo album so people would get too picky about them - it's just a default setting!! *lol*

I do hope that we can continue to debate and express our feelings in these forums though. If we had a life we probably wouldn't be here :rolleyes: (just joking!!)

I can imagin Doug is irritaded right now!
But the reason I was angry was of myself, I am angry on myself because I didn't read the intructions correctly. Although I think the instruction were a little vague this month.
But like I said last month, we can't make any demands because the contest and forum are free.
And other contest rules on other sites have disadvantages too.
If nobody can see what you vote, you can give all the good entries that would be a threat for you a low point, because you don't have to justify your votes.
So I would say, leave the contest as it is. My only suggestion would be:
- More specific instructions in the beginning of the contest thread.
- The moderators can delete entries who obviously didn't obey the instructions.

But this is just a suggetion, not a demand!
I still like the contest, and even when nothing changes, I will join in the future. (maybe not next month, I am on vacation than :masked: )

Read that with an Austrian accient please.

Please forgive my occassional rant. Its just something that sneaks out now and then.

I certainly understand the limitations on resources and the value judgements that must be made. Please take my suggestions as just that.

I am probably in a minority here in that I am neither a hobbiest or a professional. I need to become a professional and make some money at this gig. That's why I am here. And, this seems to be a very unique opportunity for me, so I intend to stay and compete and maybe through myself at the mercy of the critics on occassion.

I was not happy about misunderstanding the rules, but more unhappy with the sloppiness of my submission. Well, live and learn and

Let the games resume.

Read that with an Austrian accient please.
Hey that's where I am going next month! :bigthmb:



I am probably in a minority here in that I am neither a hobbiest or a professional. I need to become a professional and make [I]some money at this gig. That's why I am here.
Same for me!

Hahaha! :bigthmb: That is why i love this site!

Same with bluedog and hannibal, i'm no pro, that is why i stick to this site, because i love to see where my skills are.

Professionals are always critiques, constructive critiques, that is why we look up to them, it is always an honor hearing them talk about your work.

Hmmmm... I hope the next contest be something without rules, anything goes maybe... :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

contestants will nearly always push them as far as possible to arrive at a result thay are proud of. It's happened as long as I've been entering, regardless of of how clear/or not, the rules have been.

I knew with my entry that I'd created a piece that people would interrpret as having gone too far. But I wouldn't have done justice to myself if I'd left it at an earlier stage.

I think those with more knowledge/experience will always do this. It's in our nature. But we do it at our own peril.

Having said that... maybe the one with the most experience is out in front now! ;)

As to an earlier comment about not having ANY rules for a contest... all due respect but if you thought this contest was difficult to judge, try judging one where all 700-odd are completely different! Your eyeballs would definitely be rolling then. Remember that each of these contests are designed as a fun way to learn a particular skill or method. there are other forums for those who want spread their creative wings and soar a lot higher!

Gigadals, I understand your sentiment however. Likewise I completely understand and sympathise with hannibal, Infinite, Lonk and co. But hey, we're all winners if we we come away with a skill, technique or approach we can take away and use in our everyday life. The people we work for are the ultimate judges and the ones we want the most praise from in the end.
And this site has given me that for sure.

Same with everyone else, I like the contests-- I think it is a fun way to try your hand at learning a new skill and improve yourself. My comment was simply aimed at looking for a way to stop all the bickerings....not being computer savvy (programming-wise) I had no idea that not showing the entries until the contest it over or not showing the votes until they are all tallied up was a gazillion dollar operation. I just thought perhaps that might help. Another thing I think could help is if we all agreed that the contest moderator gets final say on what is or is not a violation of their rules for that contest. That person could go through the entries on the last day and delete any that he/she feels is in clear violation of the set rules. No arguments. Then all of the entries left are fair game and get equal consideration without anyone having to debate about whether so and so should have changed the BG, thinned out the face, or changed the size. Everyone will never agree, but one person can make a decision. Just my two cents-- I will continue to enter contests either way it goes, I just feel bad when people get so agitated over the voting.

-Kate ;)

InfiniteMonkey,

You want a comment on your work, here's mine. I remember your entry very well. It stands out because it's whimsical. :)

You did well on the cleanup of the skin with texture intact. I also like it that you kept some stray hairs. You were also one of the few who changed the background seamlessly. It's probably because you kept the shadow cast in the background which help avoid that "cut & paste" look.

The rest of the additions, coffee cup stains, tapes and handwriting are very believable.

But if I were the client - and setting the contest rules aside, I would ask for a refund right away. I wouldn't want to pay for a retouch photo with coffee cup stains in it. (just kidding ;) ) I guess you just wanted to test your skills that's why you decided to go to this route. You obviously have the skills to achieve this result.

I'm interested to know how you did those coffee cup stains, tapes.

The gallery was great it made viewing and judging a lot easier. To be fair to everyone's hard you make notes as you view and end up with more than 5 and getting back to 5 is difficult. The variations are excellent some really popped out. My preference was leaving the stray hairs, leaving the background and the straps and trying to stay as natural but with minor enhancements.

Hi Soleah,
Thanks for your kind words, I really appreciate the feedback.
Ironically, the idea for the comp came to me at 3am, hence the handwritten note on the photo. I kept thinking 'Snapshot' and couldn't get the thought of polaroids out of my mind. A quick search of the internet came up with the raw materials and I was off...
Instead of just comping the photo in, I wanted to show that it had been weathered, so I found some scratches and blotches and stumbled across the coffee stain. Some creative masking and judicious use of layer effects later and I had the basis for the finished project.
I desperately wanted to change the background and ended up taking a section from my sisters wedding photo.
Turns out, my monitor wasn't as colour corrected as I'd like and the time-aged effect probably went a bit too far, but in the end I think it achieves what I set out to do.

Apologies for my lack of votes. I've been a bit busier than expected and was unable to get through all the entries in time.

Congratulations Bella. Excellent job!
Other top 5 contesters, also congratulations!

Congratulations, Bella! :bow:

Sometimes less is more and this is one of those times. Well done!

Way to go Bella!

Congrats Bella!
~Nancy~

My congratulations to Bella, and all five! :bigthmb:

well done everyone!

Nice one Bella!

Just got round to checking the results. Congrats Bella. Nice job. :)

Congratulations Bella!

A special thanks to Aylaah for contributing her photo for us to work on.

And, to everyone who entered: Well done!

congratulations Bella! :jacko:

Congratulations, Bella. Nice work.

Lorraine