Last evening my computer just seemed to lose track of my network. Worse than that it cannot even find it's network adapters.

This one is an HP Pavillion a250n (no snickering please). It came with an onboard LAN adapter. I have since installed a D-Link DWL-G510 PCI wireless adapter.

Everything has been working just fine...until last evening.

I have tried reinstalling the drivers for both adapters. I tried disabling the onboard LAN adapter and using only the wireless. I tried it the other way around completely removing the wireless adapter from the system (hardware and all) and still no luck.

I have tried system restore to a time when I know everything was working perfectly and I even completed a (gulp)full system recovery to no avail. My network adapters are still AWOL.

I spent the past 4 hours online with HP trying everything including resetting the BIOS. Regardless of what I do the computer doesn't see the network adapters-nothing shows up in the device manager and if I try to set up a network I am hit with error message that says I have no network hardware installed.


The HP techs say to take it to a service center as it may need a new motherboard (fat chance I'll do that). I am confused as to why these two adapters, similar in function yet connected differently and in entirely different locations on the motherboard, would go out at the same time while the rest of the system is functioning correctly.

Any clues? Any ideas other than taking it out to the back yard and shooting it?

www.apple.com lol....

Just kidding- You must be frustrated. Hope you get it

yea, I know. :nod:

Seriously now, considering the information I already have provided, does anybody think a USB wireless network adapter would work.

If this didn't work would it mean something other than the motherboard is fouled up.

I ask because I don't want to drive for an hour and a half and spend $30 on fuel (let alone the price of the adapter) just to see if it might work.

cardmnal, sorry to hear about your problems.

I did a bit of snooping and it seems that this adapter works great - when it works. :(

According to this page http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/.. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=783131&Tab=11&NoMapp=) it doesn't seem to always get on too well with the system around it.

Don't know what system you're running but these folks http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/........ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B0001PFQ7G/102-7390570-7782557) say this is a no-go with Windows ME.

The guys http://shopping.yahoo.com/.... (http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:D-Link%20AirPlus%20G%20DWL-G510%20Network%20Adapter:1991398320:page=user-reviews) also did not give this "rave" reviews.

Seems that on the whole this is not a good piece of equipment, and those that are fully happy with it seem to be the exception.
So maybe a little shopping trip wouldn't be such a waste of money.

(my modem is D-Link, DSL-210 USB - you at the back there, stop snickering - and works perfectly :) )

This will probably offer no help at all, but the first thing I always do when having trouble getting a computer to recognize hardware is to open the device manager and delete the line entry for that hardware, then reboot.

Unfortunately, the network adapters do not even show up in the device manager, not even a catagory for them.

I was able to get a hold of a friend of mine in Oregon last night. He is a network engineer. We tried a bunch more stuff and he came to the same conclusion....The motherboard has a bad attitude.

Everything other than the network seems to be operating fine so I will deal with it for the time being. The machine is 3 or 4 years old and was pretty cheap to begin with. This will give me an excuse to upgrade.

I wish I could go the Mac route, but the cost of replacing all my software makes that option un-doable at this time.

:idea: I am thinking that in the very near future, this machine will make fine video game station for the kids.

ok, where's gary when you need him ;)

a couple questions here. did your system recently crash or crash more than once? are you running xp home or xp pro? have your tried looking in safe mode yet for the adapter? i'm guessing that the device doesnt use batteries since it's a pci card. did you recently have a thunderstorm in the area and particularly any near misses with lightning? when you try to call up 'system information' do you get any error messages? are all functions in windows still working normally? have you done a virus/malware scan, including ad-aware, anti-virus, spybot search and destroy, hijackthis and so on? has anything else 'odd' been going on with the computer functions? have you smelled any electrial type smoke recently, if only a small amount (trust me, i've had this happen). is your machine slower now than it was just before this happened? have you installed or uninstalled anything just prior to this happening? did you wind the clock on your pc recently? (ok, that last one is just for older models and HP machines ;) )

we need some more info here. i highly recommend you find and get the software program 'Everest', the free version if you can still find it. this is one very good system information tool. run it and see what it says about your system. i'd also recommend getting a heat monitor, the software type that can read your internal heat sensors and seeing what that shows. i'd also boot up in safe mode and see what device manager says. sometimes normal windows mode lies. this is especially true if you're running anything other than an NT type system.

i'm sure you've tried all the standard things like removing the cards and making sure they're fully plugged into the socket, but if device manager isnt showing them it never hurts to pull off the covers (with the power off) and get a flashlight and magnifying glass and check them again.

basically, the first step is information, the more, the better.

craig

Hi Craig,

On reading cardmnal's first post I saw he said he'd done a full restore from disk (or that's how I read it), so it's unlikely to be a software problem.

Looks like a hardware foul up (not really my area of expertise). I think you've pretty much covered most of the things to check. (connections, temperature, new hardware, dust) Just one extra question, have you handled any of your hardware recently without use of a proper grounding strap (static can do horrendous damage to delicate components) .

gary,

i know. i just like to gather all the info i can on something like this. i've seen some really odd things when working on computers.... power supplies outputting 190 volts, printed circuits that get eaten/burned up on the board, monitors that you had to bang rather sharply to get to work, and so on.

also, i never quite trust the 'client' to report everything correctly (sorry, cardmnal, i dont mean to be invalidative here, but data is the key here, especially when working remotely like this on someone else's system, and i've just had too many 'my pc isnt working, can you fix it, please?' type queries ;) ). so, when someone says they did a full system restore, that can mean 20 different things to 20 different folks, being anything from a full re-format, to a restore point, to a backup of windows, to something like norton's 'go back' and so on. so, i just like to make things nice and clear.

most likely it's nothing more than a cmos battery that's going bad. it could be the network card that's bad (though if both the onboard and the nic card dont work, this probably isnt the case), or it could be the pci buss. and this latter brings up another question; do you have any other pci type cards installed and are they working also?

and yes, i'll grant you that this sounds more like a hardware thing than software, but like we discussed before, you cant always rely on microsoft and restore points and i question other backups at times too, especially if hardware was changed after the backup was made but before the backup was used.

he's got an onboard lan and a wireless lan. it sounds like at some point both were enabled. that's enough to confuse cmos right there. so, my first trick, based only on that datum, would be to do a full cmos reset with the pci card removed and the onboard enabled and then boot up to safe mode and check device manager. actually, the first trick would be to just replace the cmos battery, then do the other. hehe, ok, the FIRST trick would be to start backing up data on the system if not already done ;)

i also know that windows/microsoft does some very odd things. one small for instance is that a re-format does not wipe everyhing out. we were all taught it does, but it doesnt unless you use the /u switch. the 'u' stands for 'unconditional' and will wipe EVERYTHING. so, on the surface, it might seem like the motherboard is partially fried, and it might be. i've seen similar things happen with modems. the rest of the motherboard is fine, but the modem i/o chip got fried.

oh, and that brings up another question, do you have any surge protection on your system? not likely a spike would kill just the nic's, but never hurts to ask....usually :)

sorry gary, i dont mean to be so whatever it is i'm being here, but i've just seen too many oddball things when it comes to computers not to try and gather all the data i can. pc's are STILL based on the old 8088 processors and the evolution of the beast has been a rather wild one. add in microsoft to the mix and if the bloody things got up and danced on the desk it wouldnt surprise me too much :)

craig

No sweat Craig, you're covering things pretty well. I agree entirely, you can't have too much data when trying to assess a situation remotely, and like you I've seen some wierd causes for (and solutions to) problems with computers.

Need some feedback from cardmnal here as to whether he has actually done a full low level format and re-install or not, as this will confirm whether a software or hardware solution is needed.

I suspect we're looking at a minor component failure on the MoBo here, in which case it'll be a sod to find. (Not easy if you're hands on, v.v.difficult done remotely on a machine you don't know), but will await further info to clarify situation.

gary,

you'll have to forgive me; i helped out on a sort of tech support site before and the hardest part of the job wasnt in evaluating the data, it was in getting the data out of the client. 'hi, i have a computer and when i turn it on the monitor stays black'. that's the kind of post you'd get. lol. nothing else, just that. you'd post readme threads and readme first and you could even require reading it as part of the registering on the site and you'd still get 'hi, my computer is broken; can you fix it?'.... enough to drive a sane man mad :mad: :rolleyes: :confused:

so, this is all a bit late on the chain of events and i was venting just a bit. all i can say is, 'hi, i'm broken; can you fix me?' :)

craig

Yep, sounds familiar, just like some of the requests we get for Malware removal on the forums.

A crystal ball isn't mandatory, but it sure would come in handy at times. :wink: :grin:

Thanks for your offers of help on this.

So lets start at the top. Yes I have started it in safe mode and checked the device manager to no avail.

Yes, I have run antivirus scans (both AVG and Norton) and scanned for ad-ware/spyware etc.

It is running XP Home.

Everything else seems to be running okay but is does seem to take longer to boot up.

No there has been no smells of any kind coming from the machine and it is pretty much dust free.

We have had a lot of wind and some snow but no thunderstorms. Yes it is is hooked up to good surge protecter and no there have been no power outages or anything that might have caused a power spike.

I had not been inside the machine since installing the PCI card, about a month ago, and I am always extermely careful to be well grounded when I do open it.

Nothing strange had been going on prior to these problems.

I did install drivers for a scanner but that was a day or two before the problems started. I did a system resore to a point before that and it didn't help.

I did a full system recovery, formatting the hard drive and installing the OS from disc.

Both the onboard and the nic adapter WERE enabled so you might have something there, though I don't know how to reset the cmos. This could be worth a try.

Oh one thing I have noticed, the clock did not have the correct time. It was 2 hours fast and yes, it is set for the correct time zone.

I think that covers most of your questions.

If you have any more just let me know. I am not to terribly upset over the loss of this system if it comes to that, but I like to do things for myself and I like to learn to do things for myself. On top of that we never know when a lurker or anybody else may be able to pick up useful information.

-Alan

thank you, cardmnal.

ok, everything i see here now from your responses points to one thing, the cmos battery: computer 2 or 3 years old, devices start to not show up or do weird things, and clock is off by a significant amount. that tiny little battery on your motherboard is extremely important. it basically keeps the cmos resident. if it goes bad or starts to fail, things start getting lost at that most basic level.

so, the fix is simple, get a new battery. it will be on your motherboard, usually one of those small, dime or nickel sized round types. remove the old one, install the new one and boot up. replacing that battery may reset your cmos settings, so things may still not be right when you boot up the first time. since you seem to know your way around a computer, just reset them to whatever you had them at before...or whatever you wish, of course.

anyways, that's what i'd try first; simple, quick, and if we're lucky, that's all it will be :)

craig

Craig,

I found the battery and removed it. as soon as I can get to a town where I can buy one...I will.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks
Alan

Well, I replaced the CMOS battery as suggested. The results were negative...the computer still cannot find either network adapter. As a matter fo fact I noticed that the device manager no longer finds the voice modem either (It is understandable that i wouldn't notice this right away since I do not use it). It seems as though the communications BUS has gone on vacation...I just don't know what, if anything, I can do about it.

Meanwhile I popped a Belkin wireless adapter into a USB port and it was immediately recognized and I now at least have network capabilies.

I loaded Photoshop and my other apps onto my Toshiba laptop and my wife immediatly took it with her on a business trip :rolleyes: and will be gone for a week.

In the mean time I think I will load some games onto this one and let the kids literaly "play it to death" :cool:

cardmnal,

whelp, we didnt get lucky :( and with what you just said about plugging the belkin into the usb and the voice modem not being seen either, i'd say you have a fried chip on the motherboard. it's not the cpu, but one of those that control the i/o of some of the ports, at least that's my take on it.

i had the same thing happen a number of years ago. for me, it was a lightning strike that did it. i had the computer with good surge protection on the electrical side of things, but didnt have any protection on the phone line into the modem. a lightning strike nearby hit the phone lines, fried my modem and just that part of the motherboard. the computer still worked, but i lost all i/o on those ports. the chip was just wasted and i ended up replacing the motherboard.

yours might be a bit different, but sounds similar enough that i'm guessing letting the kids have a new game machine is probably the way to go. at least you know they wont be getting on the net and downloading anything... well, at least until they figure out your belkin will work ;)

craig