May 06 Contest Discussion [Archive] - Contests

byRo

05-03-2006, 02:33 PM

.. Does anyone have any tips on how to squeeze more out of 100k??? To the right of the "Quality" setting in the "Save for Web" screen there's a little mask symbol. This is for you to use a mask previously [now he tells us :rolleyes: ] stored in a channel to control the quality.
Doing this right you can use better quality for the important parts and loosen up on the rest (i.e. background). I've never used this option, and would be interested in hearing if any one has.

Another observation is paper texture. This positively bloats JPEG sizes. If the paper texture isn't too important (which is not the case for this month's contest) you may be a lot better off avoiding it.

Rô

bart_hickman

05-03-2006, 02:35 PM

When I saved mine, in Photoshop, I had to reduce the file size 39% to get under 100k.... I flattened the image before I saved it.. Does anyone have any tips on how to squeeze more out of 100k???
~Nancy~

I use "save for web" (ctrl-alt-shift-s). This pops up a preview of your image along with what the filesize will be when it gets saved. Just decrement the quality setting until the image is under 100k. It also leaves your regular save settings unchanged.

Bart

Nanls

05-03-2006, 03:13 PM

I use "save for web" (ctrl-alt-shift-s). This pops up a preview of your image along with what the filesize will be when it gets saved. Just decrement the quality setting until the image is under 100k. It also leaves your regular save settings unchanged.

Bart
Thanks Bart, I guess I forgot to say I use "save for web" settings.
~Nancy~

Nanls

05-03-2006, 03:16 PM

To the right of the "Quality" setting in the "Save for Web" screen there's a little mask symbol. This is for you to use a mask previously [now he tells us :rolleyes: ] stored in a channel to control the quality.
Doing this right you can use better quality for the important parts and loosen up on the rest (i.e. background). I've never used this option, and would be interested in hearing if any one has.

Another observation is paper texture. This positively bloats JPEG sizes. If the paper texture isn't too important (which is not the case for this month's contest) you may be a lot better off avoiding it.

RôThank you Ro, didn't know about the texture bloat... that will help!
~Nancy~

Peth

05-03-2006, 03:40 PM

I'd be very disappointed if you didn't enter this month. Come on mate you've got almost three weeks! I'm keen to see how you'd approach this task.

Can't believe the number of entries already. These competitions are becoming quite popular!

MissyB

05-04-2006, 02:56 PM

Thanks for sharing your steps, chrishoggy! It's fascinating to learn how different people approach the same problem. Here's how I did mine:

- Converted to grayscale using the Channel Mixer in monochrome mode
- Applied the Underpainting filter, faded back to about 20%
- Applied the Colored Pencil filter, faded back to about 30%
- Selected the lips and used a curve to darken them slightly

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32561

Missy

chrishoggy

05-04-2006, 03:28 PM

One thing I missed out on my description was:
I left one of the graphic pen layers slightly more prominent than the other 3. Did this to show a dominant pen stroke direction, to make it look more natural.
Not sure if it worked, but did it anyway :happy:

Also did a colour version using same method :happy:

Verywierd

05-04-2006, 08:06 PM

Chrishoggy,

Thanks for sharing your steps. I hope to see more members use the Discussion Thread to share/discuss techniques as well as experiment such as Goose did with the color version.

I would, except that what I did was almost impossible to duplicate as an exact process. Apart from making copy layers, desaturating and applying various sketch filters, masking and painting them into different areas, I also took each resulting changed image, applied blur or median, adjusted level and applied selectively using masks and various blend modes to taste. There was also a small amount of actual drawing and smudging directly on the image.

Probably not important anyway as I see many more impressive efforts than mine :)

T Paul

05-04-2006, 08:46 PM

My try. This was so fun to do. I wish I could submit more with different techniques and not enter the contest.

Janet

You can, just post them in the Discussion Thread.... :)

InfiniteMonkey

05-04-2006, 10:06 PM

Have just ordered a new wacom. Had a beautiful A3 Intuos from my pre-OSX days which was unfortunately rendered useless when Wacom decided they were not going to support legacy platforms when they shifted to USB.
Have been trying to justify getting another ever since. Finally found a good reason, so thanks!
Just hope I get it in time.
Sketchy Sketchy, Painty, Painty....etc, etc...!

Gigadals

05-04-2006, 10:17 PM

Very nice auroraskye, hope you could share your steps. :cat:

goose443

05-05-2006, 02:30 PM

While the rules are very specific and very well written (Thanks T paul) it's nice to see there's still a lot left to interpretation as is evident by the breadth of entries so far. I've always looked as a sketch as being somewhere in between a basic gesture drawing and a fully rendered drawing. It's great to see the entries so far run the gamut from one end to the other. Some entries show form-defining pencil strokes and rough delineation of light and shadow that are characteristic of a more gestural form a sketching while other entries have the subtle tones and subdued strokes of a more completed drawing. I think both approaches are elegant solutions to a contest that will no doubt be difficult to judge.

DannyRaphael

05-05-2006, 04:04 PM

There are 20 layers in my final image, so forgive me for generalizing the how-to detail. See the attached image for a screenshot of the Layers Palette. Layers named "Merge" resulted from merging visible layers at that point in time.

The Green channel was used for the base image (less noise in the skin areas), to which Levels and Selective color adjustments were applied to achieve a high key effect.

After knocking out the background foilage, filters and effects were applied on duplicates of this base layer, including:
* Photoshop colored pencil
* Photoshop angled strokes
* Photoshop crosshatch
* Photoshop unsharp mask
* Impressionist > Pencil Sketch > Detailed monochrome, and a couple custom styles
* Virtual Painter > Oils

The effects from the various layers were selectively applied using layer masks. Layers were were duplicated and/or merged along the way, hence so many. Curves adjustments was used to fine tune the grey tones.

~Danny~

goose443

05-05-2006, 05:14 PM

Although I'm not going to post every step I went through (too complicated) I would be happy to share technique or answer questions if anyone is interested.

Kraellin

05-05-2006, 05:53 PM

i looked at Veryweird's how to in this thread and went, 'wait, she did exactly what i did... or i did exactly what she did'. basically, i took every filters, plugin, tool, etc, that i have and using the original each time, made a new layer of all these various edge/sketch type tools. thus, i used things like 'find all', 'trace contour', 'find horizontal', 'find vertical', etc, adding up to about 12 different types and thus 12 separate layers, each with a different base edge/sketch effect.

after that i lost all track of what i did. it was mostly working with combining all these different layers with various blend modes and sometimes completely new images based on combos of the original layers.

at various times i might also erase some part of one layer to get a certain look. and near the very end it was even more erasing to get rid of things i didnt like.

the final step was a dual framing. you might think there is only one frame in my rendition, but in fact there are two. the first was a soft vignette frame. that's the one that may not be that obvious. the second was actually a border and not a frame.

and as others have already pointed out, pencil sketches can have quite a range, from a minamalist one like mine, to a full featured portrait. one shld also remember that graphite can produce a rather wide range of shades and sharpness/blurriness depending on how you use it and the hardness or softness of the graphite. i've also seen 'wet' graphite effects which can go beyond the normal range of most pencils.

oh, and here's one small tip for others still working. graphite is basically the same substance as ... charcoal and almost all editors have some sort of charcoal type filter.

craig

soleah

05-05-2006, 10:13 PM

....
oh, and here's one small tip for others still working. graphite is basically the same substance as ... charcoal and almost all editors have some sort of charcoal type filter.

Thanks. craig.

For a moment there, I got confused. I am familiar with the word "charcoal", but "graphite"???....(and here I already submitted my entry :ditsy: )

FYI for those not familiar with the term (like me) : A quick search on the net, I found out that graphite pencil is just your garden variety lead pencil. There is no lead in the pencil. It is actually graphite.

:happy:
Here's generally what I did with my entry: (The detailed steps would take forever to write)
1. I created an outline image from the desaturated image
2. Mask the outline image and painted back the general shape of the head, hair, eyes, etc. with a coarse brush.
3. Made a copy of the desaturated image
4. Mask the copy and painted back the shades on the face and hair using a soft brush at varying opacity.

I am still using a mouse so the contouring and shading was bit tiring and frustrating...but I am quite happy with the results.

Whatever the outcome of the contest, this is one big "breakthrough" for me.

Kraellin

05-06-2006, 12:18 AM

may 6th and we're already up to 32 entries! i may have to withdraw just so i dont have to vote ;) i find it fascinating going through the entries so far. so many differences and yet all seemingly falling within the criteria. 'pencil sketch' when you get right down to it, is a pretty broad parameter. i havent seen one yet that i could eliminate by saying, 'no, that's an oil or something else'. so, it's going to be an interesting voting i'm thinking.

anyone who's ever run their finger over a pencil mark knows how easily smudged the lines can get, while on the other hand a pencil with a really good point on it can make the most delicatly thin line you'd ever want. change the pressure it's applied with and that line can be dark or very light. so, basically, almost any desaturated image could fall within the parameters. and this is NOT a whine about the rules. i think the rules are fine. this is just an observation about the class of entries so far.

i also got this wild idea, that's probably a bad idea, but i'll toss it out there anyways. T has been notifying folks ahead of the voting stage if their rendition is likely to be disqualified for rules violations. and that's fine. but it got me thinking; what if the rest of us, contestants and not, started evaluating entries ahead of the vote...here in the discussion thread. we've more or less avoided this in the past, but wouldnt it be interesting to know what folks are thinking about your piece BEFORE the voting stage? the idea here being, not to cause a heated bickering or attempt to sway a good entry into changing theirs to a bad entry by essentially lieing about it, but rather to get a less favored entry to change to a something better. and since it is quite legal to change your entry before the deadline, why not?

now, i know there's a bad side to doing this. i know. but in past contests i've watched various folks post their piece and i KNOW as soon as it's posted that it doesnt have a chance. that's the type of entry i'm talking about. you see it and you just know it's not going to have any chance at all. so, why not tell the person and give them a shot at doing something better?

now, like i said, i know there's a downside to this. egos do take hold at times in contests and i also know that some folks dont really want to be told that their entry is 'no good and doesnt stand a chance in h*ll of making it.' no one really wants to hear that. i also know that a lot of these contests become subjective perception evaluations, but what i'm mostly talking about is that post that when you see it you just know that it's just technically not up to snuff. would anyone care to hear that before the deadline or not?

also, i shld add here, i've NOT seen any of those yet in this particular contest. so, stand easy all; i'm not talking about your entry in this contest :)

or maybe, the way to do it would be that the person when they posted could include something in their entry post that says 'please tell me if this doesnt stand a chance.' and in that wise folks could and would then say yes or no and why not, if that was the case.

anyways, it's just a thought :)

craig

Doug Colwell

05-07-2006, 12:39 AM

Started with a copy of the blue channel and used levels and masks to exagerate the contrast. Used colored pencil filter (picked this one because it had the word 'pencil' in it), lowered opacity, and merged down to my high contrast layer. The hair suffered from the filter's diagonal strokes so I copied a patch of hair from left side, and rotated it so I could get some natural looking strokes on the right side. Cloned the patch edges in and burned the hair along the cheek line. Recovered some of the original hair texture using levels and masks on a copy of my base blue channel layer.

Gigadals

05-07-2006, 01:04 AM

Craig,

'please tell me if my entry doesn't stand a chance.' i would love to hear what the wise folks could and would say. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

Giga

Doug Colwell

05-07-2006, 01:26 AM

Craig, your idea would be a good one except that it targets 'bad work', so already people will be on the defensive, and maybe even reluctant to enter. While I think most people are just as inclined (probably more so) to try to fix 'good work' that they feel needs just a little something to make it 'great work', I don't know if the contest forum is the right place for unsolicited critiques - I suspect that many view the vote as criticism enough. If entrants ask for help or tips or critcism, then I don't see a problem.

NancyJ

05-07-2006, 01:34 AM

While all pencils are graphite and not lead, in artists terms, a graphite sketch often means drawn with a stick of graphite (http://www.lawrence.co.uk/shop/index.html?loadfile=catalog220_0.html) rather than a traditional pencil. They're very like charcoal in consistancy but they're not a dark, you dont get proper blacks with pencils, if you lay it on too heavy the best you will get is dark, shiny gray.

NancyJ

05-07-2006, 01:39 AM

Craig,

'please tell me if my entry doesn't stand a chance.' i would love to hear what the wise folks could and would say. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

Giga
Giga, yours defiantely falls well within the realm of pencil sketch. I'm not persoanlly a fan of such visible cross-hatching but thats a personal preference, not a critisicm.

Doug Colwell

05-07-2006, 01:54 AM

Nancy. I agree that true black isn't possible with graphite but it can show very dark if you control the lighting and reflections that make them shiny. Here's an un-tweaked scan of a graphite stick sketch I did years ago (from a Julia Margaret Cameron photo) that shows quite black in some areas.

T Paul

05-07-2006, 07:31 AM

i also got this wild idea...what if the rest of us, contestants and not, started evaluating entries ahead of the vote...here in the discussion thread...

anyways, it's just a thought :)

craig

I would love to see the Discussion Thread evolve into this. There are contests out there where entries are posted and critiqued then the contestants resubmit their entries based on the comments for the final vote.

Not only is it a great way to learn how your ideas come across to others, but also a practice in editing when you make the suggested changes to improve your original entry. At that forum, egos don't appear to be an issue, because everyone is expecting suggestions on how to improve their entry and want those suggestions in order to make their entry as strong as possible.

TwinbNJ

05-07-2006, 09:16 AM

I would love to see the Discussion Thread evolve into this. There are contests out there where entries are posted and critiqued then the contestants resubmit their entries based on the comments for the final vote.

Not only is it a great way to learn how your ideas come across to others, but also a practice in editing when you make the suggested changes to improve your original entry. At that forum, egos don't appear to be an issue, because everyone is expecting suggestions on how to improve their entry and want those suggestions in order to make their entry as strong as possible.

:nod: I post in a photo group that does this for their contest and it is very helpful. I don't think I have ever seen anyone take an attitude when critiqued. The critiques are clear with suggestions on how to imporve the shot. Other times people will point out that the image just does not meet the challenge and why, in their opinion, it does not fit. I think it would be a great addition to this contest.

I showed Jean (my twin) my entry for this contest and she wasted no time critiqueing it. I already posted my entry and am still debating weather to make the changes Jean suggested. Of course her suggestions are helpful and what area's she pointed out that need work are correct. When you work on something for a while you miss areas and may over process - it's good to have another set of eyes take a look! LOL

Kraellin

05-07-2006, 09:32 AM

gigadals,

like i said in the original post on this, i havent seen anyone's in this contest that doesnt qualify so far. so, rest easy :)

doug colwell,

you're probably right. the idea is to enter, to participate, to put yourself out there regardless. folks can already be so shy about this sort of thing that any remarks construed as 'negative' could be enough to chase folks away and god forbid that a person entered and got 50 private messages telling them that their piece is no good. so i can see that unsolicited critques might not be a very good idea.

i guess it's sort of a case like we have on the forums here. in the art sections we generally dont pick apart someone's work for the most part, even if it's meant as a constructive criticism. most of the comments are 'i like this' or 'i like this part of this'. and if someone really wants a critique, why, we've got the critiques forum. so, i get your point.

still, in some of the former contests, i recall seeing a piece when entered and have gone, 'should i say something or not on this. i know it's not going to get a vote.'. and that was what i was trying to address; the idea that one could help a 'poorer' entry get better. but you're probably right; too many unsolicited comments might tend to squash someone, particularly if they're just starting out.

as for the graphite stick as opposed to the pencil, i'll expose my lack of formal training in that i'd never known there was a difference. interesting.

and doug colwell, that is a marvelous sketch! i do hope you're doing this stuff for a living.

T, i just read your post after writing all this stuff above here, and yes, that's sort of the idea i had in mind; an open critiquing discussion of the entries. you've put it better in that you dont just limit it to the 'poor' entries, which would then not single them out. i think that's what doug was saying too.

so, how does that work on that other forum? if you've got 50 entrants does everyone do 49 critiques or how does that work?

craig

TwinbNJ

05-07-2006, 10:01 AM

craig

On the forum for photo's I post to there is a thread to post your image asking for comments and/or suggestions. Then other members post their comments to your entry. Not everyone asks for suggestions - so it would only be for those who ask.

Here is an example of a shot I took for a challenge and asked for input.

http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=33580

Gary Richardson

05-07-2006, 10:31 AM

Like the idea of a critique based competition, sounds like a good way to learn.

TwinbNJ, love the photos, but have to disagree entirely with the poster at the other forum re your first photo. To me it has much more impact than the second, as it has atmosphere which the second doesn't. Due entirely to the drums, and the smoky atmosphere.

If you want a conventional shot of the singers face, by all means crop, but if you want a picture with atmosphere, leave it as is.

I agree that you should perhaps try having a look at it in B&W though.

Kraellin

05-07-2006, 10:41 AM

twinbnj,

thanks :)

and by the way, i LIKE that image you took. i would NOT change it to black and white. and i would NOT crop out the drums and so forth. you've followed the 'rule of thirds' quite nicely there. the drums, the smoke, the reddish/yellowish cast of the shot shows a low lighting type setting, which just adds to the dramatic nature here. you want all that ambience there. it's showing more than just the singer; it's showing a smoke filled, low lit, singer pouring his heart out, sweating, earthy, emotional scene. it's a GOOD shot!

the ONLY thing i might do with it is raise the lighting just a bit in order to see the singer better and then enhance all that ambience with some contrast, perhaps. it's a strong shot, quite dramatic and really well done. i could see blurring the background just a tiny bit, but that would be a preferences thing. the drums, smoke and all that are an integral part of that image and i wouldnt mess with it too much.

i also think it would be an interesting shot to play around with some dragan.

so, thanks for showing me that image. i love it. reminds me of my bar-hopping, concert going, rock and roll days :)

craig

Nanls

05-07-2006, 10:59 AM

Doug Colwell

05-07-2006, 11:39 AM

Gary, Craig and I agree to disagree with Jill's Nerds photo critiquers, (I like the 1st best and wouldn't crop it), and that's where alot of the arguements will surface - between critiquers. This might be helpful for everyone but the person looking for clear direction as to how to improve his/her entry. But then again, the 'rules' in contests, art, photography, retouching and the like are always going to be a little contentious so maybe learning how to filter criticism and advice is also a skill that needs to be developed. You see, it's starting already - I'm conflicted!

Thanks Craig and Nancy for the compliment on my 'dirty girl' sketch - I think I moved into digital largely for the eaze of fixing stuff. If anyone here is so inclined, feel free to fix it.

Frank Lopes

05-07-2006, 12:21 PM

Doug Colwell

05-07-2006, 02:56 PM

How do you effectively and fairly judge the best entries?

For me I like to save and ignore them as they come in, and then go back and re-save the edits at the end. Then I sort them on the basic criteria (this month would be 'looks like photo' or 'looks like sketch'). After that I'm usually left with a 1/4 to a 1/2 that I slide show over and over to get my favourites, and then begin the tough slog of pinning down the five. I do try to suspend my personal preferences for style and such (or at least question them) but have to admit I'm not always successful.

Nanls

05-07-2006, 06:42 PM

There have been 36 entries in this month's contest and today is still the 7th.
If this pace continues, we'll have more than 100 entries. Which is terrific. The more the better.

Here comes the "but":

How do you effectively and fairly judge the best entries?

Do you tend to keep a "rolling" score of what has appeal to you and as long nothing better comes along, that is the winner?

Or do you wait until all the entries are in and then do your "due dilligence"?

Just wondering...
This last month, Caitlin put up a photo album with all the entries seen here: http://www.tv83.net/retouchpro/April06Entries/
I'm wondering how difficult that would be ... it was very much appreciated and makes the whole process a lot easier.
~Nancy~

____________________________________________________

www.photoart123.com

Caitlin

05-08-2006, 01:57 AM

Making the photo album itself is easy - it uses freeware called Jalbum. http://jalbum.net/

You then just need somewhere to host it.

bart_hickman

05-08-2006, 02:29 AM

There have been 36 entries in this month's contest and today is still the 7th.
If this pace continues, we'll have more than 100 entries. Which is terrific. The more the better.

Here comes the "but":

How do you effectively and fairly judge the best entries?

Do you tend to keep a "rolling" score of what has appeal to you and as long nothing better comes along, that is the winner?

Or do you wait until all the entries are in and then do your "due dilligence"?

Just wondering...

I'm waiting until the end to download and judge in case folks change their entries.

Bart

NancyJ

05-08-2006, 06:36 AM

I've already picked 5 ;), usually pick 10 or 15 at the end then narrow down to a final 5. But people change their entries all month so you cant really judge till the end.
Though I really hate it when someone has a cracking entry then change it at the last minute and its not as good ;)

TwinbNJ

05-08-2006, 06:58 AM

Gary, Craig and I agree to disagree with Jill's Nerds photo critiquers, (I like the 1st best and wouldn't crop it), and that's where alot of the arguements will surface - between critiquers. This might be helpful for everyone but the person looking for clear direction as to how to improve his/her entry. But then again, the 'rules' in contests, art, photography, retouching and the like are always going to be a little contentious so maybe learning how to filter criticism and advice is also a skill that needs to be developed. You see, it's starting already - I'm conflicted!

Thanks all for taking a look and most of all giving your opinion.
Doug - retouch has a critique section and I am sure there have been times that were the critiques have been in conflict.

I am also thrilled to see so many entries this early and know trying to judge a large amount will be difficult.
I did notice last month we had 70+ entries yet only 30+ votes that surprised me.

Frank Lopes

05-08-2006, 07:41 AM

Technically not difficult, but...
it is time consuming to download all images
you need a website

I didn't bring the gallery option up since I didn't want to presume that we would have it again...

Since Caitlin did it last month, I'm willing to do it this month, unless there are other ideas.

...I'm wondering how difficult that would be...

chrishoggy

05-08-2006, 08:13 AM

I know a good free host that will give us 5GB bandwidth and 200MB free hosting. Will this be enough to host the gallery for a week ????? It doesn't need to be on much more than that, does it?
I'm sure Jalbum will work on it no problems.

Doug Nelson

05-08-2006, 08:23 AM

Decide on who's going to do the gallery and contact me, I'll host it. Make sure you know how to FTP before volunteering :)

chrishoggy

05-08-2006, 08:56 AM

Nice one Doug. I can't guarantee I will have the time, so don't want to put my name in the pot for creating gallery. But as a backup plan, just tested Jalbum on free hosting with no problems http://contest.awardspace.com/

Frank Lopes

05-08-2006, 06:13 PM

Doug, if you need me, I'm willing to do it. Just let me know.

Decide on who's going to do the gallery and contact me, I'll host it. Make sure you know how to FTP before volunteering :)

soleah

05-08-2006, 06:51 PM

Doug, if you need me, I'm willing to do it. Just let me know.

Kudos to you Frank. :happy:

Northernshadow

05-08-2006, 09:18 PM

I just discovered the whole studio part of the forum a couple days ago!
I'm really looking forward to voting, all the different styles and methods used are just amazing!

At first I was bound and determined to do some type of crosshatched version, but it just would'nt work for me..

Here's what I did
-first converted to greyscale
-converted back to RGB, and adjusted curves to lighten the blacks, this layer stayed unaltered as the backgroung
-made a line drawing and pasted as 'line' layer, kept this on top for later.
-duplicated the background a couple of times
-layer 1 I dodged and burned, mostly dodged the background.
-layer 2 Impressionist filter, a variation of Chalk,Chunky strokes with a white
background (merge mode-overlay)
-duplicated 'line' layer and ran Stylize, Diffuse, lighten only. set this layer to
multiply 40%.
I lost track of my complete steps after this but I know I ran Stylize, diffuse,
darken only on the other line layer and used the history brush on another new layer set to multiply to darken the lips and nose area, I then deleted the original line layer. I did do something to bring back some detail in her hair. should have saved as a new file here... that helps me remember what I did.
the final step was unsharpen mask at about 50%.

I'm still not sure that the nose and lip area is dark enough... but don't want to lose the focus of those EYES!

T Paul

05-09-2006, 11:19 AM

Ziaphra,
Your current contest entry does not meet the rules. You must include your username as part of the file name. Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

3. When you submit your entry put your username in the file name (ie: tpaul.jpg). This is so users can save the images to a local directory and remember who did what--important when it comes time to vote.

Update: Entry has been corrected.

Ziaphra

05-09-2006, 11:47 AM

Done....:D

byRo

05-09-2006, 07:08 PM

Though I really hate it when someone has a cracking entry then change it at the last minute and its not as good ;)
I just changed mine and could almost hear Nancy!
I looked hard and long at the two versions, so as not to have any doubts, before changing.

Rô

T Paul

05-10-2006, 05:56 AM

CathyH,

Your current contest entry does not meet the rules.

5. Your final image size must be exactly 800 pixels high and 600 pixels wide.

Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

~Thanks

Entry has been corrected

Lorraine

05-10-2006, 07:00 AM

Since so many have posted descriptions of their sketching tecniques, I wanted to include mine:

The basics: I used two tutorials from Shan Canfield. http://www.shanzcan.com/photoshopahol.html?=photoshop.html

I followed her pencil sketch tutorial:
Desaturated background layer.
Duplicated layer, invert, linear dodge blend mode.
Filter/Gaussian blur, adjusted layer opacity to liking.
Painted with black and white on that layer to create highlights and shading.
Erased original backgound and painted in new background.

Created another composite using her charcoal sketch tutorial.
Used the hair from that composite to create more detail in the hair strands of the pencil sketch.

Created a pattern fill layer as directed in the pencil sketch tutorial: Stucco pattern/overlay blend mode/adjusted opacity to my liking.
Merged all layers.

Used many more layers to bring out highlights, shadows and facial contours.

Lorraine

NancyJ

05-10-2006, 08:26 AM

I just changed mine and could almost hear Nancy!
I looked hard and long at the two versions, so as not to have any doubts, before changing.

Rô
;)

Looks good, Rô

Kraellin

05-10-2006, 01:07 PM

dan ryan,

one entry per person.

craig

byRo

05-10-2006, 02:49 PM

Wrong size too. :scared:

Rô

cazubi

05-10-2006, 05:19 PM

There are so many nice entries and interesting variations.
I used the Trimoon (trimoon.com) sketch tutorial off of a cd that I purchased and added some variations. I started with a desaturated layer, added some grain (soft) and then added some angled strokes using the lighting effects and a trimoon preset that was provided on the cd. I then dodged and burned to bring out highlights and contrast. I then added a white paper texture layer and used the eraser tool with a rough brush and 35% opacity to "sketch" in the drawing. I use a Wacom tablet which allowed me to really feel like I was sketching.

I am glad to see so many entries in this contest, and I think that the voting will be very difficult this time.

Cathy :wavey:

T Paul

05-10-2006, 05:55 PM

Dan Ryan ,

Your current contest entry does not meet the rules.

From the Rules:

5. Your final image size must be exactly 800 pixels high and 600 pixels wide.

7. Only one entry per person. You can change your entry up to the deadline.

From FAQs… Note you are not allowed more than one entry so you will have to replace your original entry or delete it. If there are more than one entry per person at the end of a contest, all entries for that person will be disqualified.

Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

~Thanks

chrishoggy

05-12-2006, 11:50 AM

NancyJ

05-12-2006, 02:22 PM

I have to say this:
I've just looked through the entries to date, and one of them (I will not say who) stands out above all others for me. It's a WOW factor that caught my eye the second I could see the thumbnail view in the thread.
Cracking contest :wavey: :cool: :cool: :cool:
Thumbnails can be misleading, I find that a lot in these contents, some look great in the thumbnail but not so good in the closeup, and vice versa.
I've seen some fabulous artistic renderings that lose out because they dont look like pencil sketches, qute a few that I've seen are very inky.
If I was voting on the most artistic I'd come out with a very different set of results to my votes for this contest.
So far I'm making a list of the best artistry and the best pencil sketches, where the 2 lists overlap is where my votes will go.

byRo

05-12-2006, 02:34 PM

Thumbnails can be misleading......This recent thread (http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13513) shows some striking examples of the difference between big and small views of the same image.

Rô

chrishoggy

05-12-2006, 02:40 PM

I've seen some fabulous artistic renderings that lose out because they dont look like pencil sketches
Yeah thats gunna be the main problem for me. Although one stands out for me, I'm unsure about it's look as far as scetch goes. I will wait until the end, then compair the entries against a few real scetches. Then look for things that I can see in both the real and photo/created image (if that makes sense :confused: )

goose443

05-12-2006, 02:51 PM

NancyJ

05-12-2006, 03:08 PM

it's tough since graphite by it's very nature is very adaptable and can take the form of may different styles. You can have very sharp, delineated pencil marks in hatch patterns that begin to immitate ink drawings ( though with considerably less contrast) or you can have very "smudgy" drawings that take on a look of charcoal or conte crayon (though more silvery). Then there are all those in between stokes & smudges. Although there is definitely a line between graphite/charcoal or graphite/ink, it is easy for it to become blurred depending on the technique. I think it's important to keep an open mind as to what could and could not be achieved with graphite.
I'm well aware of what can be achieved with graphite, my personal style is smudgy and messy - I was tempted to add some artificial finger prints and smudges onto mine (they're all over my real work lol) but some of the entries, despite being fantastic pieces of art are defiantely merging over into the realm of ink & wash or felt-tip pen. I'm not looking to see every pencil line but dry medium flow and move very differently to wet.

NancyJ

05-12-2006, 03:11 PM

This recent thread (http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13513) shows some striking examples of the difference between big and small views of the same image.

Rô
Yes, I remember seeing that the other day - shame I cant get more than 2 feet from my screen.

goose443

05-12-2006, 04:06 PM

Here's a second attempt. It's a very different direction from my first one but it's definitely a graphite sketch. I dont remember all the steps but I'm sure I used mostly noise and blur. I also added a harp as an artistic embelishment. :)

byRo

05-12-2006, 05:36 PM

goose, what a pity it isn't 800x600px. :rolleyes:
You could have had a winner there!

Rô

Kraellin

05-12-2006, 10:41 PM

lol, goose; you stole my idea (and my real sketch) :)

looking at the latest discussion i see others had come to the same conclusion i had about pencil sketches versus other good works. in light of that, i've changed my entry. i just couldnt convince myself it was pencil. by a long stretch it might qualify, but it was pushing the limits, so i went with something more real.

i'll explain the technique after the voting ;)

craig

NancyJ

05-13-2006, 12:48 AM

lkroll

05-13-2006, 01:05 AM

Verywierd

05-13-2006, 06:48 AM

Although the original looks ok on my screen, I decided to lighten and soften my image slightly to make sure that it does not look too inky. Just to prove it to myself, I actually did a very small test drawing and I am pretty sure that I can come very close to the flowing grey shades and the darkeness of the outline in the posted image using pencils, fingers, eraser and a smudge stick on smooth finish heavy paper.

T Paul

05-13-2006, 07:58 AM

oltenius,

Your current contest entry does not meet the rules.

5. Your final image size must be exactly 800 pixels high and 600 pixels wide.

Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

~Thanks

Update: This entry has been corrected.

Kraellin

05-13-2006, 08:50 AM

nancyj,

come on admit it craig, you drew that and scanned it in i can only wish that i could sketch that well. mine would look a LOT more like goose's second entry :)

craig

HannibalVector

05-14-2006, 06:56 AM

I'd be very disappointed if you didn't enter this month. Come on mate you've got almost three weeks! I'm keen to see how you'd approach this task.
Peth,
Thanks for your interest, it is very stimulating!
I worked on the image because I didn't want to disappoint you, but I gave up after all.
I tried several techniques but it wasn't very convincing to me. So I do need more time to make it convincing, wich I don't have! We also had finally good weather over here, so that didn't motivate me either to sit inside by my computer!
Turning an image into a painting is much easier than turning it into a sketch, so I only did the Flower Bouquet contest instead:
http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13429
But I didn't spent much time either, maybe 20 minutes.
I am planning to do more photo art in the future, so you can see more serious attempts.

Thanks for your interest en motivation! :bigthmb:

One final word to all the participants:
I wanna see strokes!!!
Just using a few filters isn't very convincing as a sketch!
(if you think that I am to much of a perfectionist, just ignore me) :D

Doug Colwell

05-14-2006, 12:31 PM

Several people have brought up an issue that I'm surprised hasn't stirred the pot yet. Turning a photo into a 'digital graphite pencil sketch' can be done in 3 ways; filters and adjustments to simulate a drawing, drawing on the photo with tablet or mouse (along with filters and/or adjustments), and simply drawing with pencil and paper and scanning afterwards. The first approach makes this an image editing contest, the last approach makes it a drawing contest, and the middle approach makes it a combination of both. To me all 3 are legitimate but different methods, but the mix makes it really tough to compare and judge the entries (especially since I'm having trouble pinning down what method was used for some of the pics).

Or am I drawing a mountain out of a molehill?

Frank Lopes

05-14-2006, 12:58 PM

...Or am I drawing a mountain out of a molehill?...

I think so.

My approach will be: of all these images which one, at least to me, most resembles a pencil drawing? And, if there are several, which ones do I like the most?

How the artist arrived there, is not that important to me. The exception would be if the rules specified "no filters" or "only layers" etc

Sure I would like to know how some of the postings were done because I want to learn how to do such magnificent work. But the actual technique used doesn't play a role in my voting.

Doug Colwell

05-14-2006, 01:14 PM

I think so.

My approach will be: of all these images which one, at least to me, most resembles a pencil drawing? And, if there are several, which ones do I like the most?

That's why I'm wondering if we're comparing apples and oranges. Pencil drawings can't help but resemble pencil drawings.

NancyJ

05-14-2006, 01:34 PM

Personally, I dont think drawing it on paper and scanning it in should count. To me drawing with a real pencil and scanning it does not consitute a digital graphite pencil sketch - the rules are quite clear about the digital part. And while anything viewed on a computer is technically digital, its certainly not, in my opinion, in the 'spirit' of the rules or the purpose of the competition.

I still think craig scanned his ;) but he said he didnt so I have to believe him :p

Kraellin

05-14-2006, 01:46 PM

doug,

i'd say i have to agree with frank on this one. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then we dont really care how it became a duck :)

but my concern is, does everyone know what a duck looks like? what does a pencil sketch look like? what are the source references we'll all be drawing on when doing our work and when it comes time to vote? what are the differences between how a graphite stick looks and a number 2 pencil or a number 4 pencil or even a mechanical pencil or one of those big carpenter pencils. and how many are familiar with smudging pencil or wet smudging and other techniques i probably dont even know about. and what about graphite dust techniques? all would be legitmate to me. but i'm also no expert, so my references for drawing upon to vote are going to be somewhat limited, which may wrongfully disqualify someone in my mind. and i have to wonder about the same for others.

now, T and other admins, please dont take this as a 'oh lord, here we go again' :) i reiterate, i think the rules are fine. i think this isnt so serious as to be life threatening or prize threatening. we just like to discuss. we, as artists and technicians are highly ... technical. we deal with minutiae every day in the work we do. altering a few pixels at a time out of millions in a file is the bread and butter of what we do. so, it shldnt be too surprising that we're going to do the same in something like a contest discussion. it's the nature of the retouch beast :)

anyways, if any of you folks have actual pencil sketches in digital form, real ones scanned into the computer, and would care to post them up in this thread, i'd love to see them, particularly any that vary from something like a number 2 pencil sketch. and, since part of this discussion has touched on pen sketches, if you have any of those to offer up here as a comparison to pencil, that might be helpful also.

craig

byRo

05-14-2006, 01:47 PM

....and simply drawing with pencil and paper and scanning afterwards. This is T's call, not mine, but I can't see this being accepted as a valid entry to the contest.

Many digital artists do sketch out their ideas on paper an scan them into the computer - but from there on in, it's all digital.

Interesting point though. ;)

Rô

byRo

05-14-2006, 01:52 PM

now, T and other admins, please dont take this as a 'oh lord, here we go again' :) I have often said that the contest discussions are more valuable than the actual contest.

This is just another case. Until the contest got under way, everybody knew what a pencil sketch was - now we all have to think it over.

To me this is a GOOD THING. :D

Rô

Doug Nelson

05-14-2006, 01:58 PM

So a digital pencil is one you hold with your fingers? :)

NancyJ

05-14-2006, 02:00 PM

anyways, if any of you folks have actual pencil sketches in digital form, real ones scanned into the computer, and would care to post them up in this thread, i'd love to see them, particularly any that vary from something like a number 2 pencil sketch. and, since part of this discussion has touched on pen sketches, if you have any of those to offer up here as a comparison to pencil, that might be helpful also.

craig

Shame my parents have all my old pieces :(

NancyJ

05-14-2006, 02:02 PM

So a digital pencil is one you hold with your fingers? :)
not necessarily but I dont think its unfair to stipulate that a digital pencil sketch should have to have been created digitally.

Doug Nelson

05-14-2006, 02:03 PM

My brain hurts :)

Kraellin

05-14-2006, 02:14 PM

lol. ok, now i'm in trouble, especially with nancyj. sorry, nancy, i was playing a semantics game with you. i never said i didnt draw mine in real pencil. i just said i wished i could do it that well.... a bit of word trickery to throw you off. but i shld know i cant fool a true artist like yourself.

so, let me fess up here. i was going to wait till after the voting, but it would seem some have objections to this bit of digital trickery. frankly, i thought it was darned clever, but if it's going to cause a stir i'm willing to withdraw my entry.

what i did was print out the original photo. i then put another piece of paper on top and traced things a bit with a real #2 pencil. it was pretty rough, but that's all i wanted. i didnt want an exact, fine tracing. besides, i could barely see through the paper since i had no tracing paper. and i did then scan the rough trace back into the computer.

but, what you see as my entry is not just this tracing. it's just one layer. i had done many other edge type experiments when first working with the image. i took one of these that looked far more like a pen drawing and overlaid my tracing with this. i then blended the two with some blend mode...soft light, i think. copy merge and then did a bit of hand work to smooth out some rough areas.

now, i do not think this was a cheat. one, i'm a lousy, real sketching type person. i'm just no good at it. two, the way the rules were presented said you're given an image to work with to make a pencil sketch. the client doesnt care HOW you got there; they just want a good finished product. and to me, that means, anything goes as long as the client is happy.

so, nancy, forgive me for my deception. the only reason i didnt say how i'd done this was the surprise factor. i just wanted to create a bit of an effect with 'how clever i'd been'. but it seems i've outsmarted myself here. i shld have known i wouldnt be able to fool a real sketch artist. and congratulations on ferreting this out.

by the way, here is the first line of the contest rules, which is what i was going by: The client: A mother has brought you this photo of her daughter and wants it turned into a graphite pencil sketch.
craig

Doug Nelson

05-14-2006, 02:32 PM

Recreational semantics is called "baiting".

chrishoggy

05-14-2006, 02:37 PM

I had actually thought of doing something like Craig did, but decided not to. This was on the grounds that we are supposed to be using our software to create this effect as digital retouchers/restorers/artists. We are not supposed to be graphite media artists working from a photo.

Thats my thought on it, and my brain hurts too. Best get myself a drink to make my legs wobble :lmao: :lmao:

Doug Colwell

05-14-2006, 02:38 PM

by the way, here is the first line of the contest rules, which is what i was going by:
Quote:
The client: A mother has brought you this photo of her daughter and wants it turned into a graphite pencil sketch.

craig

LOL Craig. Now did mom find you in the yellow pages listed as "Kraellin's Traced, Manipulated, Simulated Graphite Pencil Sketches"?

NancyJ

05-14-2006, 02:38 PM

Sorry, Craig didnt mean to pick on you but there were a few dead giveaways ;)
The nose was what first made me suspect - noses are really hard to do, even when tracing ;)
Ofcourse the biggest giveaway was the edges of the paper and your bottom left corner got turned over a little when you scanned it ;)

Whether doing a mix and match is 'cheating' well, thats a grey area...

NancyJ

05-14-2006, 02:39 PM

by the way, here is the first line of the contest rules, which is what i was going by:
craig
it also says this:
This month the challenge is to turn the provided photo into a digital graphite pencil (grey tones not color) sketch on white paper.

goose443

05-14-2006, 03:25 PM

I tend to agree that as long as it's on the computer it's digital, who cares how it was done. We don't question the quality of a work of art based on how it was accomplished. Instead we look at the final product. I think it would be a shame to penalize creativity in process. As long as the final result is convincing, I think it is up to each person to find the most effective way for them of getting there. This is a very interesting multi-disciplinary contest and I think it would be good for everyone to keep it that way.

T Paul

05-14-2006, 05:11 PM

Soulsys,
Your current contest entry does not meet the rules. You must include your username as part of the file name. Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

3. When you submit your entry put your username in the file name (ie: tpaul.jpg). This is so users can save the images to a local directory and remember who did what--important when it comes time to vote.

Update: Entry has been corrected.

Doug Colwell

05-14-2006, 06:21 PM

We don't question the quality of a work of art based on how it was accomplished. Instead we look at the final product.

There are some entries here already that look to be really good examples of photorealistic drawings. While I doubt that anyone invested the time to actually produce a photorealistic drawing, if I 'knew' that was the case then my judgement on the quality of work would definately be based on how it was accomplished - and if I knew a 10 second filter produced the same result I'd be less impressed by the final product.

How art is made is a big part of it's value. That's why some artists spend hundreds or even thousands of hours producing photorealistic images that always fall a little short of a photo.

lkroll

05-14-2006, 06:46 PM

There are some entries here already that look to be really good examples of photorealistic drawings. While I doubt that anyone invested the time to actually produce a photorealistic drawing, if I 'knew' that was the case then my judgement on the quality of work would definately be based on how it was accomplished - and if I knew a 10 second filter produced the same result I'd be less impressed by the final product.

How art is made is a big part of it's value. That's why some artists spend hundreds or even thousands of hours producing photorealistic images that always fall a little short of a photo.

Though I mainly use filters (had to do some hand smudging on this one, but still over 85% filter work and layer property adjustments), I've spent well over 4 years perfecting various techniques. We are in the digital age, so if we can take advantage of the tool we are working with (i.e., computer), then all that matter's the end result. Just have some fun doing it. :)

Doug Colwell

05-14-2006, 08:07 PM

Ikroll, I'm not selling the digital way short. Apart from photo realism I think the challenge of the contest is alot more difficult to achieve convincingly using filters and techniques than it would be for a drawer to draw. But I think Frank, Craig, Goose443 and you are right when it comes down to judging this contest - if it looks like a duck, I'll vote for it.

goose443

05-14-2006, 08:13 PM

How art is made is a big part of it's value. That's why some artists spend hundreds or even thousands of hours producing photorealistic images that always fall a little short of a photo.

So those that spend less time making their art have less valuable works of art? I don't know that I believe that and I don't know that the current fine arts market would back that theory up. There are certain fine artists (Tony Brunelli and Bert Monroy come to mind) who's artwork immediately references the amount of time the spent on it but there are definitely others (Warhol, some Picasso, etc.) where the amount of time (and sometimes effort for that matter) has no direct relationship to the value of the final piece both in the importance of the message or the price tag.

I tend to think that in many cases final product trumps all. If that product reveals a labored process then it is through the final product that we can appreciate the amount of time that went into the work. If the final product successfully "fakes" a labor intensive process then that has its merits also.

Doug Colwell

05-14-2006, 09:42 PM

Goose443, I never said there was a direct relationship between time and value, (plenty of people waste plenty of time creating crap, including me), but generally speaking the value of anything (not just art) is based on a big investment of something whether it's time, experience, talent, genius, uniqueness or a combination of these. Photorealistic art is just an example of a discipline that's heavy on the time aspect, and if it's done well it has much more value than a perfect photograph of the same subject.

goose443

05-14-2006, 10:28 PM

I still don't know that photorealistic art would trump a photograph of the same subject. I think photography is as valid a fine art medium as painting, drawing or any other medium in which you would create photorealistic art. Sure there may be more time involved in making a photorealistic redition but I think a well taken photograph is just as valuable an art form as any other form of art. In fact there are many photographs that are far more valuable (both in message and price tag) than any photorealistic drawing or painting.

Doug Colwell

05-14-2006, 10:50 PM

Fair or not, photography is still the poor cousin to fine art. I don't know if that's because it's percieved as more technology/computer dependant - machines doing most of the drawing and painting.

chrishoggy

05-14-2006, 11:54 PM

if I knew a 10 second filter produced the same result I'd be less impressed by the final product.
Value is also on the persons knowledge and time invested in gaining it. It is not just based on what they do.

Example: A locksmith can get you in to your house in a few seconds with 2 tiny bits of metal. But you would need to smash a window, or brake a lock. Is the locksmith ripping you off for only taking 2 seconds?

Fair or not, photography is still the poor cousin to fine art. I don't know if that's because it's percieved as more technology/computer dependant - machines doing most of the drawing and painting.

That is correct if you wanted painting, and got a photo instead. But the two are totally different media/skills, and therefor can't be compared to each other. An artist can't claim to be a good photographer, and a photographer can't claim to be a good artist. But they both are equal in their skill and knowledge.

Questions.
If I had not posted my method where I explain how I have used nothing but four "10 second filters", would you have known exactly what I had done?

goose443

05-15-2006, 12:13 AM

Fair or not, photography is still the poor cousin to fine art. I don't know if that's because it's percieved as more technology/computer dependant - machines doing most of the drawing and painting.

I can't disagree more. In fact I don't think you can draw a distinction between fine art and photography since it is widely considered that photography falls well within the range of fine arts (look at any art history book worth its salt that deals with 20th century art).

Though it doesn't bother me much I'm sure there are many people you could easily enrage with a comment like that... especially on a site so closely tied to professional and art photography. That said, I'm all for personal expression and varied points of view so I'm by all means not saying it's not a worthwhile comment to make... if it's what you believe. I just tend not to accept photograph as a medium apart from fine art.

Kraellin

05-15-2006, 12:53 AM

hehehe, it would seem that i've indeed 'stirred the pot' here. i feel like grimer wormtongue whispering in the king's ear in order to create derision and mayhem ;)

Sorry, Craig didnt mean to pick on you but there were a few dead giveaways i never took it that way :) in fact, i was quite impressed that someone spotted it so accurately, but then i've always admired your eye, nancy... it's so much like my own ;)

well, i havent been thrown out yet, so either the powers that be are still debating or i'm within the rules. it is, after all, digital in nature and a pencil sketch ;) lol. i'm sorry, you have to understand, i once won a 'pipe smoking contest' by bringing in a hookah (water pipe). i do tend to stretch the rules at times ;) so, T, dont worry if you feel you need to disqualify my current entry. if your intent in the rules was to ONLY use the computer and software to produce these entries, then by all means simply post a notice of rules violations and i'll change it to something else.

and even though mine is partially based on a real pencil work, i'm still looking for others to post examples of real pencil sketches that others can compare their own entries with.

oh, and one note on the whole 'art, artist, fine arts, photography as art' discussion, remember, 'artist' can mean more than just 'painter'. i know artists in glass, paper, metal, wood, film, music, stone, engineering, writing, sports, etc, etc, etc. art has very little to do with the medium. art has everything to do with communication and the quality of communication. the medium is simply the carrier wave.

craig

chrishoggy

05-15-2006, 01:12 AM

Craig, your take on the rules is a brave one :bow: . I'm sticking with what I have, but liked the idea of using real sketching as part of the image. I would say only real sketching would give the true random pencil stokes most of us are trying to achieve.
Please don't take my comments as a dig at your method, it was just my take on how it was to be done :D

oh, and one note on the whole 'art, artist, fine arts, photography as art' discussion, remember, 'artist' can mean more than just 'painter'. i know artists in glass, paper, metal, wood, film, music, stone, engineering, writing, sports, etc, etc, etc. art has very little to do with the medium. art has everything to do with communication and the quality of communication. the medium is simply the carrier wave.

Good points :wink:

Kraellin

05-15-2006, 11:30 AM

chris,

it's ok, i didnt take any of this discussion as a dig. folks have their own considerations on all this and that's fine. vote how you wish, discuss what you wish. i'm fine with it. i knew going in that this might be a controversial action and that some might consider it outside the rules. i'm fine with it, either way. i mean, nobody died, right? :)

i would point out, regardless of the rules here, that if i thought i could do a better job for a client by scanning in a personal sketch in order to get a better product, i'd do it, no question. that that might not fall within the rules here, why ok, you guys decide with your votes. i have no problem with that.

the funny thing is, i look at my piece and i wouldnt vote for it anyways just based on the quality of the image and not the whole rules thing, so i consider it a moot point re the rules. i really am a lousy sketcher :) frankly, i'd love to see someone that really can sketch try the method i described or something similar. it opens up a whole new realm of digital manipulation.

craig

goose443

05-15-2006, 01:56 PM

chris,
i would point out, regardless of the rules here, that if i thought i could do a better job for a client by scanning in a personal sketch in order to get a better product, i'd do it, no question. that that might not fall within the rules here, why ok, you guys decide with your votes. i have no problem with that.

craig

I agree. Professional retouching has been around looooong before computers. In the end, it's whatever gets the job done.

T Paul

05-15-2006, 04:19 PM

This is just a reminder of the rules that this is a digital contest

This month the challenge is to turn the provided photo into a digital graphite pencil (grey tones not color) sketch on white paper

T Paul

05-15-2006, 05:54 PM

CathyH & Kraellin

You got some color sneaking through…

This month the challenge is to turn the provided photo into a digital graphite pencil (grey tones not color) sketch on white paper.

Update: Color has been removed from both entries

lkroll

05-15-2006, 06:42 PM

CathyH & Kraellin

You got some color sneaking through…

An underused feature of JPEGs, but it also cuts down on the size. At least I concured with the rules T. :lmao:

CathyH

05-15-2006, 06:59 PM

good suggestion lkroll, I'll at least desaturate it again.
Cathy H

Kraellin

05-15-2006, 09:20 PM

thanks T :)

new version is up.

craig

soleah

05-16-2006, 09:26 AM

Try this and see. Add noise to the image. It's one way to simulate surface texture of drawing paper. It will also break up the image and make it look less photorealistic. :wink:

I've updated my entry. My husband just bought me a wacom tablet and I redid my entry to get the feel of the pen in my hand. It also gave me a chance to sort and simplify the steps that I used.

lkroll

05-16-2006, 03:06 PM

that was fun! Inspired to make a new brush!

Now this is a sketch. Maybe I might get third place this time. :)

mseydel

05-16-2006, 10:10 PM

This contest would be difficult to do without a wacom or other tablet, but I'd like to see a convincing solution that doesn't use a tablet. I would have thought the lightness channel in LAB would work best, but I had better luck with desat then a levels move in RGB. After that, I used the Artistic>colored pencil filter on crosshatch for the underdrawing...I have a few custom brushes based on greyscale versions of my pens and washes, but they didn't quite work here. I modified a charcoal brush that I'd built a few years ago for the pencil strokes. I work fast, making many strokes, then dodging back the midtones and shadows to keep it from getting too blotchy in the transition areas.

Kraellin

05-17-2006, 12:28 AM

ok, my next version is going to be one where i took the hard copy print and pasted it over my monitor. i then digitally traced the image directly in the computer with the computer and software :D (i'm such a trouble maker ;) )

craig

Doug Nelson

05-17-2006, 12:38 AM

(i'm such a trouble maker ;) )

You say that like it's a good thing.

Kraellin

05-17-2006, 12:45 AM

hehehe, doug. only on rare occaisions :)

craig

Drach

05-17-2006, 02:50 AM

..just a quick note. I just updated my sketch ;)

Frank Lopes

05-17-2006, 08:41 AM

It would be fun to have a contest where the posted images are not seen until the voting period starts...

It would be interesting to see everyone's submissions without being potentialy influenced by the other participants' work...

..just a quick note. I just updated my sketch ;)

Drach

05-17-2006, 10:28 AM

T Paul

05-17-2006, 07:22 PM

226

Your current contest entry does not meet the rules.

5. Your final image size must be exactly 800 pixels high and 600 pixels wide.

Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

~Thanks

Update: This entry has been corrected

blue dog

05-19-2006, 03:38 AM

There has to be an easier way! (Using Photoshop CS 2)

1. I separated the face into its individual components so that I could treat them differently.
2. I used dark strokes on the hair and adjusted levels for the desired effect.
3. Dark strokes on the eyebrows and eye lids with a little freehand fill in.
4. Posterized everything else to 8 levels.
5. Cross-hatched the face and lips.
6. Liberally applied the smudge tool and eraser.

I chose to posterize/smudge and stop where I did because I didn't want it to look just like a photograph.

I am pretty happy with it for a first try although I see better submissions along the same line. The hair is probably the worst offense as it looks streaked and some may not like that.

Very educational and great fun!

mseydel

05-22-2006, 07:38 PM

I updated my entry...biggest change is that the brush I made (don't worry, it was completely digital) was causing odd splotches...so I subdued that, and gave the face and hair more shape overall. Pencil sketches (mine, at least) tend to get pretty dark fast...same method, but I broke out the Cintiq to speed things along...

lkroll

05-22-2006, 07:56 PM

...I redid my entry. I used a whole new technique that I will share if I win. I hope this one comes even closer to a sketch. :)

soleah

05-22-2006, 11:25 PM

I can't seem to find any tutorial of this kind in Retouchpro although we do abound in talent here. It would be great if the winner of this contest or any of the top 5, could write one for Retouchpro. Writing a tutorial is just as hard as doing the entry, so this is probably considered more of a punishment than a reward for the winner.

Anyway, just a thought... :)

T Paul

05-23-2006, 10:21 AM

mseydel,

Your current contest entry does not meet the rules.

From the Rules:

7. Only one entry per person. You can change your entry up to the deadline.

From FAQs… Note you are not allowed more than one entry so you will have to replace your original entry or delete it. If there are more than one entry per person at the end of a contest, all entries for that person will be disqualified.

Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

~Thanks

Update: This entry has been corrected.

PhotoB

05-23-2006, 12:57 PM

I too had to jump on the bandwagon and edit my entry...

CathyH

05-24-2006, 12:31 PM

Decide on who's going to do the gallery and contact me, I'll host it. Make sure you know how to FTP before volunteering :)
Did anyone volunteer to make a gallery?

Kraellin

05-24-2006, 01:53 PM

whelp, contest is almost over and no one has volunteered some real pencil sketches as examples. i was hoping someone would as i'm really not very versed in the possibles real looks obtainable and this is going to make voting more difficult for me, at least. all i can vote by is my own limited observation of real world pencil sketches and quite frankly, a lot of folks are immediately not going to qualify, possibly because of that. and i hate ruling someone out just because of my limitations and not theirs.

craig

T Paul

05-24-2006, 02:39 PM

Legacy~Art

Your current contest entry does not meet the rules.

5. Your final image size must be exactly 800 pixels high and 600 pixels wide.

Please correct this to prevent your entry from being disqualified.

~Thanks

Cameraken

05-24-2006, 02:41 PM

Craig.

Here is one you can play with.

Ken.

creeduk

05-24-2006, 02:58 PM

I was going to enter one until I looked and wow there are some very realistic 'sketch' effects. All I can say is Wow!

Looking at mseydel entry I was thinking it could actually be a sketch :), this is a very very good one.

Legacy~Art

05-24-2006, 04:37 PM

Absolultely disgusted how my picture was disallowed!

Let me say, this is a hard forum to keep up with, when first to upload a picture it has to be less than the 100 and very hard to get that correct, then you disallow me in such a way, an email, yes, but writing it how you did, i am so mad at this right now!

Good luck with the competition, i only enter actually so i could vote, but if your face don't fit don't join in!

T Paul

05-24-2006, 05:04 PM

If you look throughout this thread you will see that many others received similar emails.

From the Rules...Please take the time to read the rules carefully to avoid your entry from being disqualified-- such as not putting your name in the file, or submitting a background with a color when the rules call for a white background. I will PM and post a warning in the Contest Discussion Thread to those not meeting the rules — so you might want to review it every so often. One draw back is that those that submit their entries at the very last moment might not have enough time to change them, so be sure to read the rules carefully. Once the contest deadline is up...the contest is over.

soleah

05-24-2006, 08:37 PM

Some samples from different artists.
Drawing gallery: Graphite pencil and charcoal drawing (http://drawsketch.about.com/library/gallery/blgallery_graphite.htm)

The image sizes are good enough for scrutiny.

Kraellin

05-24-2006, 09:41 PM

ken, thank you!

soleah, excellent! that's exactly what i wanted, a smattering of styles and effects, darknesses and lightnesses.

craig

makeovermagic

05-25-2006, 12:04 PM

I have created a photo album for the May '06 Contest -- I had some free time on my hands today :lol:.

The album is located on my website; click on the link below and you will go directly to the Photo Album.

www.makeovermagic.org/album

If you jump to the end photo #69 -- this is the original image.

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE -- THE ENTRIES ARE ALL REALLY GREAT!!!

Marsha

NOTE: photo #15 is entry by "familytreephoto" -- there was an error in uploading

THIS IS NOT THE VOTING THREAD

Nanls

05-25-2006, 12:40 PM

I have created a photo album for the May '06 Contest -- I had some free time on my hands today :lol:.

The album is located on my website; click on the link below and you will go directly to the Photo Album.

www.makeovermagic.org/album

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE -- THE ENTRIES ARE ALL REALLY GREAT!!!

Marsha
Thank you sooooo much. What a nice thing to do!
~Nancy~ :wavey:

-------------------------------------------------------
www.photoart123.com

PhotoB

05-25-2006, 01:23 PM

Oops. --moved--

Kraellin

05-25-2006, 01:25 PM

umm, wrong place, photob. look above this thread in the 'stickies' area.

craig

PhotoB

05-25-2006, 01:26 PM

thanks. fixed it!

Kraellin

05-25-2006, 01:27 PM

marsha,

you might want to change your thread title. it's going to be confusing as already seen.

craig

Kraellin

05-25-2006, 01:41 PM

thank you, marsha. excellent choice :)

and thank you for doing this!

craig

T Paul

05-25-2006, 04:41 PM

Special thanks to makeovermagic for putting a viewing gallery together

Viewing Album (http://www.makeovermagic.org/album/) provided by makeovermagic (temporary link)

If you jump to the end photo #69 -- this is the original image.

NOTE: photo #15 is entry by "familytreephoto" -- there was an error in uploading

soleah

05-25-2006, 05:19 PM

That's a big help, Marsha. Thanks :bigthmb:

I like reading the comments/critiques in the contest votes, not only on my own entry but on the other entries as well. Sometimes, you can't put a finger on what makes a good/bad entry. I give credit to the members here for their insight.

And so, I'm opening my door to any comment/critique that you have on my work. It would be appreciated. If you're not comfortable with what you have to say but badly want to say it, just pm me.

Anybody who wants an opinion of their work, just ask.

makeovermagic

05-25-2006, 05:26 PM

i hope the gallery makes it easier to vote on a very difficult contest -- the entries were really great.

Marsha

creeduk

05-26-2006, 06:38 AM

Janet Petty

05-26-2006, 07:41 AM

Thank you Marsha for the link. It made voting much smoother.

Janet

Northernshadow

05-26-2006, 09:20 AM

Thanks for the Gallery, it definitely made part of the voting easier! The tough part was deciding which to vote for!!!

I was gone for almost 2 weeks camping and although I would have liked to see the changes made to the entries (and maybe change mine) it was really cool to come back and see all the finished work! :bigthmb:

Now... I'd better do something about the 500+ photos I took :aghast:

Nanls

05-26-2006, 10:01 AM

T Paul,
It will be interesting to see which one(s) the mom chooses. You will let us know, won't you?
~Nancy~

T Paul

05-26-2006, 10:03 AM

I will if she tells me.

mseydel

05-26-2006, 11:14 AM

There's a real mom in this contest? Or an 'imaginary contest mom'? If it's the latter, I have a great idea for a follow-up contest: Based on the existing picture of the daughter, make an image of what you imagine the mother looks like. Of course, it should be a pencil sketch to match...

Drach

05-26-2006, 01:13 PM

Interesting idea. The results would be quite diverse..

Kraellin

05-26-2006, 01:30 PM

well, i'm fascinated by the votes and quite pleased. i knew the voting was going to be quite varied this time. 'pencil sketch' seems easy at first. you can create many, many varieties of pencil type sketches with graphic editors...as we've all seen in the contest. but it's the voting that tells the real tale and i'm very pleased to see that folks are voting on the issues. the 'filtered' look is losing. the 'too dark to be pencil' is also not making it for the most part. but the real fascinating part to me is, the individual exposures to real pencil sketches. one can only evaluate something based on the data one has to hand. in this case that data is one's own exposure to the media being used. i've already stated that my exposure is limited in this case, so my votes tended to lean towards that number 2 pencil type look. i know that's very limited, but it's all i had to go on. thus, i'm fascinated by the other votes.

nancyj, i think it was, originally mentioned 'grahite sticks' as one possible pencil sketch type. i have almost no exposure to those. but it's pretty obvious that others have.

i also tended to not vote for those entries that looked too close to photographic quality. and i'm sorry to those whom i may have wrongfully not selected because of this. i just have never seen a pencil sketch that did this. i know it's not an impossibility, but i've just never seen one so how could i vote for this? most of the sketches i've ever seen are those simple outline types with little if any shading and smudging 'fill'. and the few i have seen that werent simple outlines all had that very smudged/smeared look to them. so again, this is my limitation.

and i would still encourage those who do sketch to post examples of your works. i would love to get more edumacated on this.

craig

NancyJ

05-27-2006, 01:42 AM

Now that the contest is over I thought I'd do a full color, unrestricted job on this one, such a pretty picture.

T Paul

05-27-2006, 10:22 AM

Here are a few more pencil drawing links you may want to check out:

Pencil Drawings (http://www.jdhillberry.com/) - Has a mini tutorial

Carol Rosinski (http://www.toadhollowstudio.com/Index_frame.html) - Also has an online free drawing lesson as well as some for fees

Mike Sibley - Graphite Pencil Drawings (http://www.sibleyfineart.com/index.htm) - Check out the studio tips

Pet Portraits (http://www.julieandpatrhodes.co.uk/juliepages/petportraits.htm)

Odin Peterson Pencil Portraits (http://art.odinp.com/Coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=2)

Nanls

05-27-2006, 10:36 AM

Here are a few more pencil drawing links you may want to check out:

Pencil Drawings (http://www.jdhillberry.com/) - Has a mini tutorial

Carol Rosinski (http://www.toadhollowstudio.com/Index_frame.html) - Also has an online free drawing lesson as well as some for fees

Mike Sibley - Graphite Pencil Drawings (http://www.sibleyfineart.com/index.htm) - Check out the studio tips
Wow that first one is excellent. And what a wide range between the three of them.
~Nancy~

Doug Colwell

05-27-2006, 10:47 AM

Wow NancyJ. Nice super-sat airbrush look.

Verywierd

05-27-2006, 10:54 AM

Here is a site with a whole load of photo to pencil portraits

http://www.mydavinci.com/j/sgalleryx.jsp?cat=singleportrait

Nanls

05-27-2006, 11:33 AM

Well I partially agree with you Craig, although my vote was not solely based on the entry just looking like a sketch but also on the aesthetic value of the piece. Then one would have to take the customer into consideration. I sell digital sketches based on photos, as in this contest, and it is interesting how varied the requests can be for a "sketch".

Then comes into play the quality of the piece and there was a wide range; I saw a couple of entries that did look like sketches, but also looked very amateurish, while others looked on "the dark side" and I'm not talking tonal range. Would a mother (the customer) want any of these hanging on her wall? Although some of these entries satisfied the requirements of being "sketch like" and some were "very" sketch like, they didn't fit within the realm of what the customer ordered, aesthetic value or quality needed and that knocked them out of the contest for me. For this contest I saw a couple of dozen entries that could have easily been in the top five.... great stuff.

About the "filter look" as Craig calls it: I initially used some filters along with some layer adjustment for a base, but then took the image into Painter to add softness, shadows and some stokes for the hair-not something you can do with filters. But hey! this 'IS" just for fun, right? So I guess since art is subjective it gets down to "the art is in the eye of the beholder." (the beholder being the customer if I want to stay in business, lol). I did notice with this contest that people are taking time to read the rules.... Can't wait 'til the next contest... too much fun.

~Nancy~

______________________________
www.photoart123.com
____________________________________

Peth

05-27-2006, 05:01 PM

Wow veryweird, those examples are incredible. Now wouldn't it be great if we had somone like that to judge our entries? As well as the current system of course. But that way we'd all learn so much more!

The guest expert judge... quite like the idea.

Must stress that this comment doesn't mean I think there's anyting wrong with the voting system... it very interesting to see everyon'e different take on things.

Can't wait for the next contest!

odinpeterson

05-29-2006, 08:57 AM

:grin: you linked to my site (Odin Peterson Pencil Portraits (http://art.odinp.com))so I had to join up since I need to learn more about Photoshop.
Anyone who wants advice on how to draw let me know.
All the contest entries looked great to me, nice.
and great contest idea by the way :)

Peth

05-29-2006, 12:06 PM

I'd love to learn more! Anything you can teach us would be hugely valued.
Obviously the end result will vary depending on the individual's style and sensitivity but knowing the programme and the approach would be great.

Thanks very much for replying!

T Paul

05-30-2006, 07:55 PM

Voting is almost over so don't forget to get your votes in!!!!

Deadline for votes is 6pm EDT 31 May 2006.

mindbender82

05-31-2006, 06:32 AM

I am new to this forum as of today, and so I missed out on the contest but I decided to do one anyway.

Gary Richardson

05-31-2006, 05:18 PM

First of all my congratulations to Peth and the others for your wonderful winning entries.

Secondly my apologies to the contestants for not voting, sorry, got kinda tied up a little over the last couple of days, just didn't have time to go through all the entries and give them the kind of consideration they deserved.

As usual, a great contest with some great images.

CJ Swartz

05-31-2006, 05:46 PM

Congratulations to you, Peth!

Congratulations to all the Top 10!

Nanls

05-31-2006, 05:55 PM

Congratulations Peth! Great job on the sketch!
~Nancy~

_____________________________
www.photoart123.com

Peth

06-01-2006, 02:53 AM

Unfortunately in a frenzy of desktop cleaning I seem to have deleted the layered file, which I wanted to make available to any who wanted it. Not that my methodology is by any means textbook.

So an explaination of each step will have to suffice.

Here goes... BTW all done in photoshop. Tried painter but too much of a Greenhorn. I suspect it would have given a very nice finish.

Step 1. Made image greyscale by using the Channel Mixer. Be sure to click the monotone box in the lower left hand corner. I find this to be by far the best way of turning any image to greyscale due to the advanced control versus simply desaturating or changing the image mode. Works really well for old restorations also.

Step 2. Adjusted the levels to eliminate any really black blacks and to smooth and simplify the contours of her face.

Step 3. Applied a gentle surface blur (CS2) which flattened any pores and the like and prepared a nice even base for my pencil work.

Step 4. Using a wacom pen I literally sketched over the entire image. I was going for a hard pencil look versus a softer 2B or 4B (grainier) finish. Tricky descision because many people understandably feel this is too close to photographic. But I knew as long as I drew over the entire image that it would reflect enough of the pencil sketch to be somewhat realistic.

BTW I used a small hard edged brush with diameters varying from say 3px to (I think) 9px to simulate a hard pencil that has bluntened over time. Bluntened... is that a word?

Step 5. Actually this was introduced throughout step 4 but anyhow... I used the smudge tool with a large (25px - 40px) soft brush on low pressure to simulate the softening one would normally create with a finger.

Step 6. Repeated steps 5 & 6 on a seperate layer in spots where there was not enough 'sketchiness'. When I was happy I lowered the opacity slightly and blended into the main image.

That's it! Took me 1-2 hours tops I guess. Since then I've become quite interested in the technique and started to experiment with rough brushes that simulate softer pencils... with quite pleasing results.

Oh one last thing. I adjusted the levels to take away any true whiteness that would automatically give the piece away as being digital... Not that it doesn't look digital as it is.

Hope that helps guys. Please, if can, treat yourself to a wacom. You'll love it and it makes so many disciplines from digital art to retouching and restoration so much easier. You may have read my comment on art coming from the soul and not a drop-down menu. I didn't mean this to sound snobbish but it was true for me... until I got the wacom I didn't have that 'connect' with the projects I worked on. It will change and improve your skill and enjoyment markedly, I promise!

Thanks for all your votes everyone and keep entering and learning.

Lorraine

06-01-2006, 03:16 AM

Peth,

Congratulations on your excellent entry. And thanks for the details of how you did such a great job. :thumbsup:

Would also like to congratulate everyone who entered. All of your work is outstanding.

Lorraine

byRo

06-01-2006, 05:23 AM

Peth, my congratulations for the well-deserved win and thank you for the step-by-step description.

Maybe this christmas I'll find a tablet in my sock!

One thing though - you left out what I consider to be one of the principal qualities of your entry.
The CROP.
So many retouchers / digital artists forget that this is a very powerful tool - and one which you used here to great effect!

Rô

OnAir

06-01-2006, 06:42 AM

My congratulations to Peth and to all contestants!

dkcoats

06-01-2006, 10:22 AM

Congratulations to Peth and the other top vote-getters. And apologies for not voting. I came to work yesterday morning after being on vacation since Thursday and found that our internet/email had been down since Friday and our IT guy was out of town until Saturday. So it fell to me do deal with it. :eek: It was a real @#*&storm. By the time we were back up it ws too late to vote responsibly.

A fun contest, and a difficult one.

dc

Peth

06-01-2006, 12:05 PM

You're quite right Ro! Yes, the crop. THAT was step one or two and WAS critical. I talked earlier about connection. For the viewer, you have a closer connection the closer you get to a subject... which is why we get 'close' to those we love.

We don't care about the blouse she's wearing or the bush she's standing next to, we want to see HER, know HER and make a connection... deep aye?!

Plus I didn't want to draw the leaves.

The dutch or rotate for me was as critical as the crop. It's a very feminine thing to do and has a softness which again is more personal. Check out Lorraine's avatar. She tilts her head slightly which gives her a sweetness. Without reading any of her posts, you get the impression she's a lovely lady.
That's what I felt this portrait needed.

hope that helps... it WAS a major oversight!