hi all... i spend the last two days reading this forums... a great place to stay and i am not new to retouching... i read about dodge and burn techniques and about the dior skin tutorials. so i decided to try these new techniques on my lovely wife dana...
here is the result.. i am not happy with this...
1. original file
2. removed all wrinkles by myself
3. blurred and highpass from here : http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1169397 but i got lots of shadows on the hands an chin ...
4. dodge and burn thechnique...wich made me cry :(

can u please help out and give some tries on my file.. i put it here: http://www.ml-artdesign.com/dana_ret.tif its 9 mb ... pls share your work.. i am especially interested in how to dodge and burn...i read all the threads here but it is never really explained... i found the d&b - set but my try was horrible and just flattened out the skin... i even didnt make much darker.. just lightened the skin :) its even more uneven and blotchy

pls help ... i want to recreate a flawless skin and the look of the glamour mags...diorlike models...like shellby shows on hers http://www.retouchme.co.uk/ .. i like that work very much...
regards... mario

You need good photography and make-up to create a glamour look. You have to start off with the right product to get that finished result.

I think you need to practice your dodge and burn technique, as well. Practice makes perfect, remember. Don't rely on blurs or filters.

You need good photography and make-up to create a glamour look. You have to start off with the right product to get that finished result.
yeah..i know.. apart from that i dont think that this is too bad photography for an amateur photographer...)


I think you need to practice your dodge and burn technique, as well. Practice makes perfect, remember. Don't rely on blurs or filters.
thats the point... how to do that ? i cannot practice if i dont know how ? i just lighten up the skin ... just clicking around makes no sense...would like to see how you would do that in this particular pic.. so i can practice..pls help

thx
mario

- healing brush tool to smooth out the skin and match colors in areas that are blotched, lines under her eyes, etc - done on separate layers so that the opacities can be adjusted,
- Chip Springer's Paint With Light(Color) II action found at http://www.atncentral.com/download.htm#Image_Enhancements
using a white soft brush and very light opacities to decrease shadowing and again, using skin color to balance any areas that the healing brush didn't fix or match properly,i.e. her finger tips, chin area, etc. At atncentral, there are also other 'glamor' actions that you may like.
- image/adjustments/shadow/highlights to lighter her hair as well as increased midtone contrast to highlight her eyes
- added a dark vignette to a duplicate layer, adjusted the opacity and masked out any over-effect,
- sharpened the lightness channel of a duplicate in LAB mode, pasted back overtop of the original and applied a 'hide all' layer mask to allow applying the the effect only to specific areas by painting them with a soft white brush. i.e. eyes, lips, hair.

- healing brush tool to smooth out the skin and match colors in areas that are blotched, lines under her eyes, etc - done on separate layers so that the opacities can be adjusted,
- Chip Springer's Paint With Light(Color) II action found at http://www.atncentral.com/download.htm#Image_Enhancements
using a white soft brush and very light opacities to decrease shadowing and again, using skin color to balance any areas that the healing brush didn't fix or match properly,i.e. her finger tips, chin area, etc. At atncentral, there are also other 'glamor' actions that you may like.
- image/adjustments/shadow/highlights to lighter her hair as well as increased midtone contrast to highlight her eyes
- added a dark vignette to a duplicate layer, adjusted the opacity and masked out any over-effect,
- sharpened the lightness channel of a duplicate in LAB mode, pasted back overtop of the original and applied a 'hide all' layer mask to allow applying the the effect only to specific areas by painting them with a soft white brush. i.e. eyes, lips, hair.

wow thx gary.... thats the help i search...
u have done very very well... a little too good perhaps ... but thats not the point...
u didnt use any blur thechnique ?
can i use the pwl action for dodgeing and burning ? that atn creates 1 grey-layer ... i read that it is not so good like a burn and a dodge curve ?

any other tries ?

regards mario

Biggest problem was the lack of contrast. I bumped the contrast to give a little more shape to the face and added a touch of glow, made the lips a little glam and enhanced the eyes. Skin smoothing and lots of healing brush.

http://edgework.tripod.com/samples/dana.jpg

Something like this ?

wow thx gary.... thats the help i search...
u have done very very well... a little too good perhaps ... but thats not the point...
u didnt use any blur thechnique ?
can i use the pwl action for dodgeing and burning ? that atn creates 1 grey-layer ... i read that it is not so good like a burn and a dodge curve ?

any other tries ?

regards mario

Thanks. Yes, the ATN sets down a grey layer in Soft Light mode so, instead of using the dodge and burn tools, you can use a black brush to darken and the opposite to lighten. Dodging and burning are great tools but for me, this method is more effective and less 'color damaging/changing' for this type of project. Also, you can select any color within the project and use this to increase saturation, smoothing, etc by simply changing the brush and layer opacities.

As for smoothing, I neglected to state that I used Dynamic Skin Softener filter within the NIK Color Efex Pro bundle on a separate layer so that I could adjust the effect and mask out those areas that I wanted untouched.

Cheers!

Pure painting with light is arduous to say the least, especially when starting, maybe meet it half way with a DeGrundge via Byro's method http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/index.php?m=show&id=213
and then finish off with painting with light. As you get the hang of it maybe drop the degrunge opacity more and more. This way I'd think it should not be so overwhelming. I am by no means any expert, just my two cents

Photoshop. BTW, don't forget about things such as curves and levels adjustments

Biggest problem was the lack of contrast. I bumped the contrast to give a little more shape to the face and added a touch of glow, made the lips a little glam and enhanced the eyes. Skin smoothing and lots of healing brush.

http://edgework.tripod.com/samples/dana.jpg

that looks really nice and i will remember the bumping of the contrast and the glowing for the lips... thx

@crex: this looks also really fine.. what was ur way ?

Pure painting with light is arduous to say the least, especially when starting, maybe meet it half way with a DeGrundge via Byro's method http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/index.php?m=show&id=213
and then finish off with painting with light. ...

Photoshop. BTW, don't forget about things such as curves and levels adjustments

how about using curves for smoothing skintones ... if i add adjustment curves.. i can only edit the 3 colors rgb , dont i ? so i have to add loads of curves, right ?

thx
mario

"how about using curves for smoothing skintones ... if i add adjustment curves.. i can only edit the 3 colors rgb , dont i ? so i have to add loads of curves, right ?

thx
mario"


that sounds even more arduous to me, Iwas talking about a basic curves and levels adjustment before starting off or on finishing off

"how about using curves for smoothing skintones ... if i add adjustment curves.. i can only edit the 3 colors rgb , dont i ? so i have to add loads of curves, right ?

thx
mario"


that sounds even more arduous to me, Iwas talking about a basic curves and levels adjustment before starting off or on finishing off

ahh ok..i do that normally always... on this image not yet :)
but i thought of curves with masks on every seperate color to even skin tones...
but that would just be another way than pwl right ?

Doing it that way, I think, would give more scope to skewing the colour

ok... ty all... hav to work on these tips... i will post another result...

but if u like .. i , and i think others too, would be very pleased to see other approches and explanations...

regards
mario

First off, let me say, I am no expert on this, having only recently begun to experimenting with this technique myself but perhaps I can give you some pointers.

Actually, I think you did very well on your D&B effort. With just a little more work it could look good. I took the liberty of taking your D&B and ratcheting up the contrast a bit to show you where work needs to be done. (Attachment 1)

Then I had a go at it myself, and although it is by no means perfect, I include it to show you the general direction in which you should be moving.
(Attachment 2)

For what it's worth (and please bear in mind I have very little experience in this) here is my two cents on D&B. Here I must also give credit to TheVeed who gave me some very valuable pointers. He advises to start big (say at 100 - 200%) and then, if necessary to zoom in closer. I use a 2-10% opacity brush, with a flow of 50%, a hardness of 25% and a size of anywhere from 1-50 pixels although most work is done at about size 10.

Some other tips....zoom in and out constantly, add a curves adjustment layer to bring out the contrast. This will show you areas you haven't seen. Get up from your desk and stand about a meter away from your computer. You will see more from here. Switch off all the lights in the room. This will give you yet another angle. Leave your computer for a while. Go and do something else. Come back again with fresh eyes.

Can't think of anything else now. Hope this helps.

Syd

Okay here is my completed (well, is it ever complete?) D&B effort. All the skin work was done on one Soft Light layer. No clone tool, no healing brush, no blurring. I did however, color correct, sharpen and add contrast.
I will attach the D&B layer for you to see. Copy it and Shift-Click-Drag (this will ensure that is centered) it over the original. Change the blend mode to Soft Light and switch it on and off to see the results.

Sincerely Syd

Okay here is my completed (well, is it ever complete?) D&B effort. All the skin work was done on one Soft Light layer. No clone tool, no healing brush, no blurring. I did however, color correct, sharpen and add contrast.
I will attach the D&B layer for you to see. Copy it and Shift-Click-Drag (this will ensure that is centered) it over the original. Change the blend mode to Soft Light and switch it on and off to see the results.

Sincerely Syd

thx syd that was exactly what i asked for ... it is brilliant... u did an awesome job !!! how long did it take you ?

it is really just this grey layer... i will practice a lot on this to achieve the same result...

thx
mario

It's my pleasure Mario. It took about three hours. I forgot to add I only have a mouse and I use mostly a clicking action but sometimes use a 'swiping action'. It's not easy but it is very rewarding. It leaves the pores intact but smoothes out the tones. You want to smooth out the transitions between the light and the dark areas. You DONT want to flatten them entirely! otherwise you will be left with a homogenized 'wall' of skin which will hardly resemble a face. Don't try and do it all in one go. Do some and then rest. Go and do something esle. Come back the next day (if you can possibly hold back the excitement), just take a break. It is really important.

I include a slightly more 'contrasty' version side by side with the original for comparison. It doesn't need this much contrast but when I looked how it came out in Explorer it just didn't have the punch it did in Photoshop.

Syd

Such a great shot to work with, I continued more into the 'glamor' look using my #2. I softened her skin a bit more, added sharpening so that her eyes and lips, contrast and color to her lips to brighten, PWL II action to reduce some of the shadow areas further and reverse unsharp mask to a duplicate layer for 'punch', using settings of Amount=20, Radius =80 and Threshold =0

looks also really fine and even more glamourous :)
thx mario

Okay here is my completed (well, is it ever complete?) D&B effort. All the skin work was done on one Soft Light layer. No clone tool, no healing brush, no blurring. I did however, color correct, sharpen and add contrast.
I will attach the D&B layer for you to see. Copy it and Shift-Click-Drag (this will ensure that is centered) it over the original. Change the blend mode to Soft Light and switch it on and off to see the results.

Sincerely Syd


Woohoo! Great job Syd

Whenever I use D&B to retouch skin, I keep switching between shadows, highlight and midtones to get the desired results. As this takes some extra time, what is everybody's preferred mode? Or do other people also keep switching?

I only use midtone. That's it.

Hi Steve here. I have been going through the same mystery about the D&B retouching technique and haven't had too much success, but now after reading all the posts here and the grey mask, I have some direction to go now. Thanks

I dont know if someone already answered this for you but here I go. Before doing all the filter stuff its best to do the dodge and burn or clone or heal to get rid of all the big stuff. Now the dodge and burn techique is a simple idea. Always set the dodge tool to midtones at 1% if your brush size is under 10, you might want to boost it up to 2% the highest. Create a duplicate layer to see your progress or to bring back things (its annoying to get use to i know!) for every time you dodge an area u must burn the surrounding area and vice versa. At first it seems like it does nothing. click on your orginal layer and you will see the difference. Dodgeing and burnning cant really be done that effectively using a mouse. I learned about this technique when I worked for a retouching firm that required me to use the wacom tablet and pen (now i cant even retouch with a mouse if i tried!). Also its important to note that u want to change the brush size for different blotchy ness. small blotches or texture on the face use brush at 5 and expousre of 2. always look far away then close up with the pic, that way you wont get lost in blotchy skin....anyway...I hope that helps somewhat.

Woohoo! Great job Syd

Thanks Veed. Quite frankly I owe it all to you. I had all but given up on D&B as too time consuming and a technique only for the incredibly talented until you gave me some very valuable pointers. Thanks so much for your help.

Sincerely Syd

Used the soft dior tutorial on site to smooth the skin and paint in shaded countours. Shading was done by creating a new clear layer and painting in black where I wanted shadows. Be sure to change blend mode to soft light or the effect will not work. Gaussian blur this layer so it smooths out and blends in real smoothly. Adjust layer opacity to control the darkness of the shadow. Do this where ever you want the darker toned shadow looks. Do the same with a blank layer (and a white brush) to paint in highlights, soften ,and then adjust intensity. This is one other way.

Suzzie

Once you have completed the dodge and burn

Do a Filter > Other > High Pass Sharpen

A small amount on a new layer, change the layer to Softlight, Then lower opacity

Anybody else have some issues with areas on skin that go from light to dark? You have to be so careful not to change the lighting.

Hi All, Does anyone use the d&b technique for retouching cars.
I think this could be a great way to bring out the best shape and form of cars.

Thanks, Scott

Started by cloning (at 60% opacity) and healing any imperfection...after healing I almost always fade back to 75%.
Then ctrl+alt+tilde, copied/paste. then smart blurred...again fade back..
then lightened (big white brush set to 2%) under the eyes, and darkened under the checks (big brown at 2%)..ran some curves to brighten the picture..
here it is.

Lasa

Started by cloning (at 60% opacity) and healing any imperfection...after healing I almost always fade back to 75%.
Then ctrl+alt+tilde, copied/paste. then smart blurred...again fade back..
then lightened (big white brush set to 2%) under the eyes, and darkened under the checks (big brown at 2%)..ran some curves to brighten the picture..
here it is.

Lasa

this is really great !!
looks perfect...

Bully when dodging and burning use a soft brush tip
also use very low opacity setting like 2 or 3
make sure of which area your dodging or burning ,shadows midtones or highlights
I did just the face on this photo hope you like it

Lasa, is there any chance at all you could expand on your technique a bit more. That is a great result and want to try and get that also. Just not sure what brushes, healing, burnng on what layers etc.

Woul dbe great if you could add a little more detail to that post you put.

Thanks heaps.

S.

Mafx, I don't know how much more I can add...
Where are you having problems?
When cloning I rarely have the cloning brush at 100% it just to strong so I clone at 60-70% and go over the same spot if it needs to be darker.
Same with the healing tools..it can sometime be to strong so I use the fade option. (EDIT/FADE) It only works immediately after an event..
ctrl+alt+tilde, (tilde is the key above the tab on most keyboards)copied/paste. then smart blurred (smart blur is under the blur filters)...again fade back is exactly that. ctrl+alt+tilde It makes a light layer which when blurred smooths out skin nicely.
Does this help?
Lasa

so do you just work on one copy of the original layer? When you fade back you just do it at 100% opacity and normal mode?

Lastly :) With the amount of blur and threshold, what should I be looking for at that stage.. just a subtle blur and tinkering with the settings until I see the skin smooth out sort of thing.

Just trying to find the right technique for this sort of stuff.

I appreciate the help.

Steven

Nothing works 100% on all pictures but at least it "can" gives you a starting point.
I normally duplicate the original layer (then turn off the original background) and simply work off the copied layer.
With regards to the Smart blur I've been using radius 2-3, threshold 25% it normally over-does-it so I throddle back with the "fade option". I sometimes set the "ctrl+alt+tilde" layer to multiply and lower opacity a tad (just play around with all of it)

Hope it helps,

Lasa