:wink: Hi to All as I am a new fella an 80 year old and I have just got hold of
Elements 4 (and 2 came with it too) and I load a photo I have taken and wonder what I should do next! I am in Australia and cannot buy stuff books etc on the Net so whether I can buy them here I do not know. What I am asking is what should I think of a book to try and learn, any titles here? I am thinking that some kind person could tell me how to go about working on a photo and the right way to go about it. What should one do first, ie there a procedure to follow. All I have been able to find which works is Enhance -
Shadow Highlights which does lighten shadows etc, what else can be used like this element, very hard to understand this Elements 4 and I have not loaded Elements 2 as I thought the upgrade would be better to use. I am very glad I have found this helpful place and I sure do hope someone can guide me a bit along the way.
With many thanks I am Roy.

Hi Royo,
welcome to the forum. I am also an Aussie and I use elements 4.
The best advice I can give you is to do as many tutorials as you can find,from this site and also others on the Net that you can find through doing a google search...(photshop elements4 tutorials). Tutorials from other elements versions will also be helpful. General photoshop tutes are good too but remember that elements isn't able to do some things that it's big brother can do.
Practice lots and take the advice of the very knowledgable people here and you'll soon work your way through the program.
Have fun with it, and may I say it's great to see a mature person getting into technology!
Have a great day
Vicki. :classic:

:thumbsup: Hi, Roy, I admit to being 70+ and also just got started at restoring old photos. Elements is not my program, I use Paint Shop Pro. So cannot offer any advice just welcome to this wonderful group. I am still learning my way around. Have not figures out how to post images yet. Hugs, Robsmom :classic:

Hi Roy! Here's a link to click on that will give you beginner Photoshop Elements tutorials...... I love tutorials and have about 3 years worth stacked beside me at my computer..... it's so good to have you here!

http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/pselementstutorials/Tutorials_for_Essential_Techniques_in_Photoshop_Elements.htm

oxoxo
Beth

I read over your post and thought I'd get a little more specific instead of just giving you a link:

1. The first thing I do is make sure the resolution of a photo is adequate (at least 300dpi) in Photoshop CS2 you go up to the menu bar to: Image > Image Size if it isn't at least that, I'd try my best to work on it but 300+ is easier.

2. Do a Ctrl + J on your keyboard to duplicate your background layer (always work on a duplicate layer in case you goof up....

3. Look to see if the photo is bright enough or too bright - Image > Adjustments > Levels and play with moving the arrows on the top slider.... click OK when you like what you see...

4. Does your photo have any color issues....... orange cast, etc.

I just thought about something...... I'll probably forget something here so I bet that since you're wanting information on 'what to do next' you'll come closer to getting that by doing a Google search on something like 'workflow for photo retouching using Photoshop Elements'...... the word 'workflow' is key here, I think.....

I just caught myself forgetting things when I began to type these steps and figured I'd forget something important.....

Hi Roy welcome to RetouchPRO. I have been using Elements 2 for the past three years and still find new things it can do. It takes a good while to begin to get your hands around this program but its worth the time. Go to the Tutorial section on this web site for great help and links to tutorials elsewhere on the web. The best way to learn is to just play, experiment and have fun. An author I like has two books that probably will fit well with a beginner. Adobe Photoshop Elements 4.0: A Visual Introduction to Digital Imaging & Adobe Photoshop Elements 4.0 A to Z ....by Philip Andrews . Always use Layers duplicate layer to make your adjustments on the duplicate without messing up the original. And Levels / Contrast & Brightness will be an often used basic adjustment.

Hidden Power for Elements 4 is a pretty good book ( http://aps8.com/hppe4.html ). I know the author ;-). It has a more complete approach to the beginning to end process of working with images.

Really you want to have a workflow in place:

1. Calibrate and create ICC profiles
2. Set up color management
3. Evaluate your images
4. Correct color
5. Make image repairs
6. Enhance composition
7. Make test prints
8. Evaluate and solidify workflow

Those are the steps from my online course for betterphoto.com which are based on the book. The courses help you solidify the workflow, and discuss all the 8 steps in detail:
http://www.betterphoto.com/photocourses/RIC01.asp

But that serves as a rough outline of what you'll want to do.

Hi Roy,here is another great link for Photoshop Elements info,tutorials etc.

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com


Bob

Well I have just managed to get on after trouble with my modem but seems OK now, I must say I was pretty amazed at all the help that was waiting here for me! Thanks to All who have put in a word of advice it is really appreachiated, when I brought this Elements 4 I did not really know how advanced it was and as for Photoshop itself wow would take years Ha. I certainly will take all the good advice given. I have the good magazine called
'Digital Photography and Design' now ordered and from our library and it gives
samples of work to do on thier usage, hard to follow though as it talks as if one knows all the trick etc! I was trying to find out the sequence of things
and read in one issue to use Levels then colour balance for any colour cast,
hue/saturation and then finish with unsharp mask, so will try that too. When I look at my photos I can only really see some are a bit dark in shadow areas and have used the 'Shadow Hghlights' some of the darker areas have to be careful though else it lightens All. I am really thrilled that at last I have found this forum to give me hekp. I would like to thank All Vicki, Robsmom,Solitear,
JimJam, Nybob for another link to try and lastly Richard Lynch who I know from what I have read writes about Photoshop itself and Elements etc, many thanks to you All it is nice to meet you all, kind regards Roy.

up :bigthmb:

Two things I am hoping you fellas will help me on as I cannot find out, one is how does one work out whatthe DPI of a photo is, my camera takes photos in a size of 2816 x 2112 what it is I do not know, that is what it takes photos at at the best setting and I print them in 6 x 4 and in 5 x 7inches. The other thing I cannot find is the Colour Balance, what is it called in Elements 4, what is the bamr used as there is no 'Colour Balance' written in anywhere sure is a bit confusing. Any help welcome, kind regards Roy. :square:

royo,

welcome to RetouchPRO.

i'm not normally this critical of software, but elements 4 was very disappointing to me. it left out a number of things that i would have thought would have been standard to a stripped down photoshop. i used it for about a week and then never returned. also, someone new to this type of software, i'd far more recommend paint shop pro over elements. it's much easier to understand and has all or more of the functionality of elements. heck, i'd even recommend the Gimp, which is free, over elements.

elements is like buying a cadillac that's had all the interior stripped out of it, small, thin wheels, the chassis cut in three parts with the middle removed and then welded back together, all the seats removed and part of the steering wheel. but it manages to retain the higher learning curve of photoshop. not a great combination in my opinion.

as for the relationship of pixels (picture elements- a single 'dot' on your monitor that can be seen at a certain distance), dpi (dots per inch), ppi (pixels per inch) and so on, can be quite confusing at first.

generally, when working on an image it's easier to deal with the overall ppi of the image, like your 2816x2112 image. that's 2,816 dots one way and 2112 the other. that's the 'image size'.

the relationship of the two sides mathematically is called the 'aspect ratio'. it's the ratio of the length to the width. you could express it as 1.333333 (long divided by short side) or 0.75 (short divided by long side. or, you could express it as a ratio, 11 x 8.25. but, none of that takes into account the resolution and that's the kicker. you can have an 11 x 8.25 which is only 22 x 16.5 PIXELS or one that multiplies each side by the same number and gives you 2816x2112. so, it gets a bit confusing.

generally, when you're dealing with editing and posting images to someplace like here, we tend to use the pixel numbers and resolutions. but, when you're printing, we tend to use the frame sizes, like 8 x 10, 5 x 7, 6 x 4 and so on. this is because printers tend to not care as much about resolutions. they just want to print within the borders of the paper they are printing on. so, resolution to a printer becomes secondary. but with images on a monitor, resolution is everything, well, almost everything.

hehe, now that i've thoroughly confused you, let's say this another way. if i had an 8 x 10 print that i wanted to scan into the computer, i could scan it at 300 dpi (printers like dpi instead of ppi, but they are essentially, in most cases, the same thing). an 8 x 10 at 300 dpi would give you an IMAGE SIZE of 8 times 300 by 10 times 300, or 2400 x 3000. but, if you reduced this in half and made it a 1200 x 1500 for some reason and then wanted to print it out again at 8 x 10, it would work just fine. it still has the same aspect ratio of 8 x 10.

so, got all that? :)

:) G'day Roy,
How're ya going with your photos :dizzy:
I am from Brissy and I am wondering, if by chance, your copy of Elements was bundled with your camera or such? Also, depending on where you live I may even be able to help you out with local information and resources. Click on my name above if you want to email me or leave a private message.
Cheers for now,
Littlecoo

Roy, in response to your last post on image sizes and resolutions, I had a look around and found this site- LINK HERE (http://www.scantips.com/basics01.html) Whilst not specific to images from a digital camera, I think you may find most of the information there to be helpful to you.

hi Roy,
Here my 2 cents worth...smile

ppi and dpi it all very confusing, in some cases it doesn't mean anything and in other it can have deciding effect.... there been debates on this for a long time.....

the link that littlecoo gave was very good...... also you might like this link it give a small table showing pictures in relation to picture pixel dimensions, to printing resolution...and scanning , in relations to ppi/dpi!!!!!!! I think that will help you understand and determine what you want to do..

http://www.sublimationink.net/dh1.html

The way i keep straight...
1. dpi applies strictly to the printer
2. ppi applies to display.....

3. for cameras what important is the pixel resolution !! dpi has no effect on quality of the picture.... when displaying.. it that pixel resolution size that becomes important...
4. printing.. what printer setting you use will help lot on the printing quality output!!
5. with scanning.. extremely important.. because what dpi or ppi (manufacturers use the word interchangably) will determine the pixel resolution... many of a times i have seen the pro's on here , when it come to a small picture would like to see a high dpi/ppi setting for a scan picture... in order to have more data to work with..!!

well like I said that my 2 cents worth I hope it help and not make it more confusing.. smile... there a ton of places that get more in depth on this subject and many of them will have picture comparison to boaster there argument.. smile..!! good luck



Two things I am hoping you fellas will help me on as I cannot find out, one is how does one work out whatthe DPI of a photo is, my camera takes photos in a size of 2816 x 2112 what it is I do not know, that is what it takes photos at at the best setting and I print them in 6 x 4 and in 5 x 7inches. The other thing I cannot find is the Colour Balance, what is it called in Elements 4, what is the bamr used as there is no 'Colour Balance' written in anywhere sure is a bit confusing. Any help welcome, kind regards Roy. :square:

Well! I must thank you All for all this help I am getting, pretty confusing stuff this I am begining to think I should have been a bit more careful about what to ask! Ha G. I do thank you though Kraellin for the explaination and though read 2 or more times is still circling about. All I really wanted to know if the size 2816x2112 was pixels or dots, I know know it is pixels. Also what I wanted to know the size I print in at 6x4 and 5x7 how many pixels would be in each, I cannot work this out, some competitions say the photo entered must be at least 300
pixels and I cannot work it out! Thankyou Littlecoo for your help to me, I brought Elements 4 from Ebay as thier price seemed pretty good but I got no insructions with it whether there should have been I do not know. I am far from you in WA in answer to your question and could send you a note later. I thankyou for the link to try will go there and see later it looks good. To my other helper JerryB thankyout also and for the link to help me, I will go to all these new links and read up then will not have to ask so many questions! I understand now that the photo size from my camera is in Pixels per Inch it was most confusing, I do not scan (have not got one) only print my photos and have been 'mucking' about with some photos. What is used in E4 for the
colour balance which is not written in. I go to Links and adjust, colour balance I cannot do as am lost, then use Hue/Saturation and lastly the Unsharp Mask but cannot REALLY see any change in the sharpness though I do know I have to have my eyes seen to later this year ha. All the very best to All and thanks Roy. :surprise: :square:

Well! I must thank you All for all this help I am getting, pretty confusing stuff this I am begining to think I should have been a bit more careful about what to ask! Ha

All I really wanted to know if the size 2816x2112 was pixels or dots, I know know it is pixels. Also what I wanted to know the size I print in at 6x4 and 5x7 how many pixels would be in each, I cannot work this out, some competitions say the photo entered must be at least 300 pixels and I cannot work it out!


Roy, don't worry about feeling confused -- it's how we all started! ;) It's like everything else you've learned in your life -- it seems confusing when you start, then you catch on a bit, and then you just start doing it without thinking about it much.

If you're submitting a photo for competition and it's saying 300 pixels, it's probably referring to the 300 pixels per inch that you'll find under Image -- Image Size. The dialogue box pops up and you'll see width and height and down below that it will say Resolution -- that's where you'll want to see 300 or more. If it says 72 or something less than 300, you can change it, but take a look at these links on how to do it.
http://akvis.com/en/photoshop-tips/resolution-elements.php
http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=30070&rl=1

I know that some explanations can seem way too complicated, but there are some important concepts that they want us to understand -- THEN they let us know how to actually DO what we are trying to do. :) If you get stuck, or just have questions, don't think you shouldn't ask too many questions here -- you're allowed a certain number (won't tell you how many) and then you have to start helping other people with THEIR questions. Turn-about is fair play.

There's a lot of stuff written to help us understand Photoshop and Elements, and I think it would be good to read some of it each week. But just learn a few of the basics and then have fun USING it to work on your photos, and then you'll know when you need to read something else -- because you'll be trying to do something and won't be sure how to do it -- in the meanwhile, just use it and have fun with your photos.

What is used in E4 for the colour balance which is not written in.
You can use the middle (gray) slider on the Levels dialog for basic color balance. There is an auto feature, but I don't recommend using it. All you want to do is:

1. Open Levels (Layer>New Adjustment Layer>Levels, and click OK when the New Layer dialog appears)
2. Choose Red from the Channels drop list in the upper part of the dialog.
3. Click-and-drag the center (gray) slider below the graph from left to right a few times and stop in the position where the color seems most balanced.
4. Choose Green from the channels drop list and repeat step 3.
5. Choose Blue from the channels drop list and repeat step 3.

That will provide some very basic color balance. For more control you can use my elements tools (see http://hiddenelements.com/elements4_tools.html ).

Hope that helps!

Also what I wanted to know the size I print in at 6x4 and 5x7 how many pixels would be in each

There are a few ways to figure this out, depending on how you feel about resizing your image. I cover some here without a lot of additional detail:

• To print with the current image information, a 72 PPI image is about 39x29, but 72 ppi is not enough to print with for decent quality.

• In most cases you will need at least 240 ppi for printing to an inkjet, so your image size would be a maximum of 11.7x8.8 (you can get this by opening Image Size [Image>Resize>Image size] and unchecking Resample, then changing the resolution to 240).

• If you change the same box to 300 ppi, your maximum image size is about 9.4x7, so you have plenty of room for printing 6x4 and 5x7 images.

• You can print anything smaller than the dimensions noted above and, with some degree of interpolation, you can print larger. How much larger depends on your equipment to some extent (the 'quality' of the pixels), and how much softening you and the image can tolerate. I don't recommend going more than 10-20% larger than the original (a personal preference that others can argue with).

• Without resampling, you can change the resolution to height = 5, and the image will resize to 6.67x5 @ 422 ppi (approximating a 5x7)

• Without resampling, you can change the resolution to height = 4, and the image will resize to 5.33x4 @ 528 ppi (approximating a 6x4)

• If you go either route here (5x7, 4x6), it will likely be best to then check the Resample box and resize the image by changing the ppi to your target (as recommended by the printer or service; usually somewhere between 240 and 306 ppi).

• You see that none of these options is exact to the dimensions (5x7, 4x6) you are looking for. It may be best to use the Crop tool. As you have enough resolution for either size (5x7 or 4x6), just choose the Crop tool (press C on your keyboard), enter the Height, Width, and Resolution you want on the Options bar, then click and drag over the image to make your cropping box. Resize and reposition the box (Take a look in Elements Help [Help>Photoshop Elements Help] for more information on using the Crop tool). BE SURE TO SAVE THE IMAGES YOU CROP WITH A DIFFERENT NAME THAN THE ORIGINAL.

I hope that helps!

Thanks for all your helpful replies to me. Firstly CJ Swartz who gave me support and it has helped me to feel much better and not just an old guy! I
see what you mean re image size, I have checked out your helpful places and understand more now. I have looked at the two links you gave and can see much help there to read later. I can now see slowly forming a way to work in Elements 4, you guys (male & female) sure are a wonderful help the way you All explain to me, yes well one day the light will fall and even I will be able to help other beginners like me- one day! I would like to wish you and All the other guys a Very Happy New Year 2007.
To Richard Lynch thankyou for explaining how to work the Colour Balance which really had me baffled, I have copied it all down and am now pleased I know how now to work on the colours and now fully understand how it is done, I am so pleased as that was holding me back, now I am in the know.
Thanks a lot for all your tips most encouraging. From your second note to me I can see that my printed 6x4 and the 5x7 prints should be at least 300 PPI
and if not I can see how to change them in Elements and also resize etc. It is
now beginning to look to me a much better program and worth the money!
Things are getting clearer even to me. Many thanks Roy.
Later maybe I will upgrade to some of those mew things you make for Elements 4 I have noted the site thanks.

Last night I tried to add some clouds to a photo which came out with a white sky. Though I followed all the instructions and what was supposed to be the clouds sure looked terrible when I pressef 'paste'. I trie two times but the same result, what do you think I am doing wrong and perhaps you can give me an example of how to do it. The instructions I was following was adding 'something' to another picture etc. Was this t he right way to go about it or was it ONLY for small objects added? Any help here would be appreachiated with thanks Roy. :classic:

There is a video at this link showing one method of replacing a sky.

http://tinyurl.com/ydnvpn

Bob

Thanks Bob I have just got the Google player and will d/load that program, I will let you know another day how it went. Thanks for your help Roy. :classic:

Here is a great started book:
Nick Vandome, "Digital Photo Projects", Barnes and Noble, 2004, 192 pp. In color, simple steps.