Can you help me 'see' what's wrong with my sweet mother in law's photo?

We hired a photographer to shoot a couple of photos of my in law's 60th wedding anniversary. He was a great guy, came to our location and I think he took some great shots...

I asked him if he would just put the pictures on a CD for me and give me permission to print them.... he agreed but then said, "I'll pick out the best of the group shot and the best shot of your inlaws portraits then I'll crop and retouch them".... I said, ".. oh, don't worry about that, I mess around with PhotoShop and I'll do it"......

I got the CD home and opened it up and the group shot was really nice but the portrait of my inlaws.... GASP..... my mother in law didn't even look like herself......

We called the photographer and he's agreed to putting the unretouched pics on a CD. I felt horrible because I know he thought he was doing us the better favor by touching them up..... I absolutely will use him again for a bunch of reasons.... but the family is asking about one of my 'famous' slideshows of the anny event and I don't have time to make the 1hr trip to get the original photos.

What is it that looks 'awkward' about the photo..... my real mother in law is on the right.....

i think it's her eyebrows....maybe...they look shorter which changes a lot of her look to me, plus, it seems like there is less room between the bottom of her eyebrow and the top of her eyelid...just an observation...both nice pics though

the lip is "BENDING" to much...but that is not the photographers fault :D

th eyes is a white and soft...it seems that he has put some sort of diffuse/softing technique on her face...

Gerry

Hi Lelhsaneerg,

You're right about the eyebrows, but.... hehehe.... she does trim them.... I have a big thing about brows.... I think they sort of 'make' the face..... I'm going to try to add back the length and see if that helps....

I was thinking about that distance, too..... but kinda left it alone cuz I thought maybe the tilt of her head would make that look shorter.....

Thank you for these good ideas, I'm going to try them!

Beth

Hey Superkoax,

Re: the mouth "bend", I thought something was goofy there so I did a horizontal flip on her mouth and, when my hysterical laughing subsided, decided maybe it was the contrast between teeth and lips..

I also agree the eye whites may be a little too bright....

I guess the overall impression I get when I first look at the photo is that she looks like Herman Munster......

Thanks for your help.... I think I'll post more of each picture .......

I really do love his work.... I just think some of the actions or filters just didn't work well with her already strong features....

Thanks, superkoax
Beth

Hard to say without seeing the source that was retouched, but to me, he's brightened her teeth way too much -- and made them 'glow', which is very unnatural. It's important to realize that teeth yellow with age and care must be taken when retouching not to go overboard.

LonK,

I agree about the teeth and know I have to force myself to keep from going overboard there... I didn't realize I was seeing a 'glow' but there is.

Here's a picture of the whole shot with insert of them naturally.... I love the photos, just got to get Mom back...:)

Thank you!
Beth

If you take an ordinary picture with direct and cold flash and compare it to a picture that has diffused flash and is more portrait minded, well there is the difference,,,some filters here, but her smile is very white and her eyes is white too...

Another thing I'm seeing here, Beth, is that her hair, neck and necklace are very sharp, yet her face (eyes in particular) are much softer, almost like they're out of focus. This disparity in contrasts is confusing to the senses.

This is the first time I have tried to un-retouch a photo. I flipped the good photo and overlaid it on the bad photo to allow for better comparison. He must have used blur because running high-pass filter un-did the softness. I brought the teeth back to natural by using levels and used Hue/Saturation and Color Balance to restore the color of the eyes. Minor de-saturation of the red channel corrected the skin color difference. Sooo.... here's your mother back (at least as close as I can get). Remember the good photo has been flipped horizontally.

Here's the second photo. Same issue with the blur and teeth. I used the high-pass filter (with overlay blending mode) to restore sharpness and levels to take the "shine" off your mother's teeth.

Lonnie.... I missed that.... and it was making it confusing.... I could see the softness in the face but, on some level, knew something was a bit 'off'.... you've got a good eye....

Duwayne.... that was pretty funny asking you guys to un-retouch a photo.... and, I'm posting the original for comparison..... you did a great job giving her back to us!

I knew you all would have insight into what was going on and I appreciate everyone's help....

Thank you,
Beth

has she seen it. I bet she would love it. I also am a little confused. the one on the left in the OP is the photographers right? I don't know what your mom looks like but they don't look that much different to me. Harsh light of direct flash wrong color balance and over sharpened VS. slightly out of focus and very soft light. I'm glad he is giving you the originals and what you want. It is also nice that you say you would use him again because you do like his work. i hope you get what you want.....

Jim

Hi Jimhob,

My mother in law hasn't seen the picture yet... but I'm close to finishing it.....

I will definitely use this photographer again! We had hired another photographer but 5 days before our event, he cancelled... I called this photographer with only a couple days notice to shoot our event..... right in the middle of wedding season.....

From the very beginning, he calmed me down and in a cheerful, professional way. He asked a lot of questions, too. He arrived early to check out the facilities and brought all his equipment.... I couldn't believe how quickly he hearded all 28 of us (5 were children) and had us casually grouped and laughing....

Our event was a Saturday evening and he had my photos retouched and burned to a CD that Monday. I love his work, it has a rich look that I also didn't want to lose. This is one of the reasons why I felt so bad asking for the originals. I felt like we were being ungrateful but I knew my mother in law wouldn't have been happy.

Since I've gotten to work on the photo a bit, I've thought that maybe we were used to seeing photos of her with her head usually tilted differently..... that would account for some of it....

I am going to write to him and thank him... for everything!

Thank you, too..... I do appreciate what you've said and am glad you 'got' that I do like him.

Beth

Well...... here goes...... I'm thinking this is the final one.... in lightening it I believe I've lost some richness.... and, I may have gone overboard on the skin smoothing but, those of you who know me, will be amazed that 'no pixels were harmed by blurring in this retouch'.... hehehe

So, I'm gonna hang on tight and let you photographers and retouchers blast away..... :grin:

Beth

This is a classic case of why you should never, ever, ever "touch up" someone's picture unless requested to do so. Even with the best of intentions you are treading on dangerous grounds.

The well meaning photographer is not intimately connected with the subject, so does not see how much his "minor" changes have altered the character and personality of the subject.

However the related observer (Solitear) who knows the subject's face well, immediately sees the differences, and as the alterations were not asked for feels rightly aggrieved.

Interesting thread, and I think a lesson to us all.

Tried keeping it 'real'. Lightened the pic as a whole, minimised the shadows and lightened that beautiful hair!

Thanks, Gary.... it taught me, too...... looking at it, I saw the multitued of times I'd made something 'better' but, in reality, made it 'different'..... I still don't know when to stop.....

Beth

Hi Ziaphra..... your lightening went a long way towards bringing Mom back..... I could've saved myself lots of trouble if I'd started with that..... my hindsight is getting sharper and sharper! Thanks for working on this...

Beth

Hi solitear,

I agree with everyone's assessment's... eyes/teeth glow, skin too blurry, and everyone has done nice correction work.

I was curious why the photog's retouching didn't look right, so I addressed those issues as well. Hope you don't mind.

Hi Bill..... I don't mind at all..... thank you.....

My husband thought that maybe a 'one size fits all' action/filter was run on Mom's photo and that the 'odd' look was a result of it 'grabbing' in places... Sort of like what happens when you color over previously colored hair.... the porous areas 'grab' the new color and you're left with light roots and darker ends....

I think it's more a case of 'getting lost' when you're working so closely with a pic..... anyway, thank you for your help... I liked your clean, fresh version!

Beth

Beth:

I looked at your retouched version (left) and created my retouched version (right) from your original. I tried to make my changes somewhat subtle and not change her face dramatically.

I opened up the photo with a curves layer and used both a masked screen layer painting to lighten creases in your Mother's face, and a gaussian blur level (with a small amount of blur) to add some softening to her face. I brightened her teeth and eyes a little.

Alan

Hi Alan.... I like the natural look of yours... are you saying that you created a curves layer set to screen blend mode?... this sounds like fun... I don't think I've ever tried that....

Beth

Beth:

Sorry for the confusion. The first adjustment layer I used was a curves layer and it was separate from the layer that was set in screen mode. To get the screen mode layer, I created a new merged visible layer and set it to screen mode and then added a layer mask (hide all). I then painted in the areas of the creases to lighten them up.

Alan

I think it's the teeth. The lower lip is really bad. Eyebrows are a big no.

I really think it's pretty decent, and I also think she will like it. Just a few tweaks.

Hey Alan..... thanks so much for your steps.... hubby saw your version and said, "that's it"...... natural and not overdone (as mine is).... it wasn't until you posted the side by side retouches (mine vs. yours) that I saw how far I'd gone..... almost as far as the 'morphed' version I was complaining about..... :blush: :blush:

Thanks again!
Beth
P.S. - What a great website you have...... very well done and the easiest retouching/restoration website I have ever navigated.... really excellent!!!

Thanks, Lynda..... now if I can just leave it at "just a few tweaks"....... :grin:

Beth

It's so hard to do that. I was a non-digital retoucher for years, and it's a lot easier to call it "finished" when going further will take hours. But still...all hail the step backwards button! :)

I agree...... and in honor of the 'backwards' button, I think I'll go open a bottle of vino tinto ... especially after all this 'un-morphing' :grin:

Beth

well, you lost me on the first image here, beth. if your 'real' mother-in-law in on the right, who is on the left? and which one did the pro photographer take at the wedding and touch up?

and is that next one you posted a few posts down the original? and why is there an insert?

Craig..... hehehe..... I always make things more difficult than they ought to be...... Here's what I should have done in the beginning..... post the original and the morphed.... but when I started this thread, I only had the 'morphed' photo...... since I wanted people to know what she really looked like, I posted a snapshot of her along side the morphed version of her.....

Below is morphed mom on the left and it's original on the right.....

oxoxo

ah, ok. with ya now :)

ok, i went back up in the posts and looked at your work against this last post. looks great!

it's always a bit of a question mark when retouching older folks. do you remove the wrinkles, reduce them or leave them alone. i tend to like how you went, reducing. good job on re-lighting and good job on the teeth. nicely done all around.

it's always a bit of a question mark when retouching older folks. do you remove the wrinkles, reduce them or leave them alone.

Gotta disagree with you there Craig, I don't think its a question at all, unless the client requested a "touch up" you leave the pics exactly as is.

OK a general levels or colour adjustment to correct any exposure problems is acceptable, but most definitely no "enhancements" to the appearance of the people in the shot.

gary, generally i agree. but in this particular case, this is family and a gift and in a way, beth here IS the client. so, she gets license to do it how she thinks is best. i do the same thing when working on family shots. they are my gift to the family. so, i'm both the agent and the client, so i make the call.

the exception is if family comes to me and says 'i'd like it this way or that way.'. when working for clients, it's exactly as you say, though.

I haven't read through all the thread, but as I understood it the original "morphed" shot was produced by the photographer not by Beth.

He probably meant well, but was acting without client consultation as I read it, with the result that Beth was rightly annoyed.

I agree with you that if it were Beth doing things, then she is both retoucher and client and can act as she wishes, but I didn't think that that's what we were talking about.

Hi Gary and Craig........ you're both right..... this is just convoluted because my mother-in-law didn't hire the photographer..... my hubby and I did..... it was a gift for their anniversary......

The reason I asked the photographer for the un-retouched photos on a CD is because I know my mom-n-law and 'picky' doesn't begin to describe her.... she is wonderful but, to give you an idea, when I told her we'd scheduled a photographer for the group photo and their portrait, her only comments were, "well, where's he going to take the pictures..... he isn't going to be there the whole night, is he......." so...ya see what I mean.....

I knew she would pick those pictures apart and I wasn't going to put the photographer in that position after he'd come to our rescue...... I knew, too, that she'd want to look as if the pic was taken on her 'best' day and not made up since she doesn't wear much makeup..... I think she has beautiful features.....

Now, having said all that, I still was unsure how to go about retouching her photo..... it would have been easier if I hadn't known her.....

BTW..... I showed her 5x7's of the retouched group and of their portrait for her to pick out the ones she liked so I could have larger ones made and she said, 'are these all you have.... I thought he took one where my hands were in a different position'....... :devil: Wreeeerrr... thank goodness she has some other qualities that balance this out.... not like me who only has good qualities.....:lol: hehehe

........ where's my rifle....... you may want to move this thread to something called..... um..... Photoshop Psychiatry Pforum....

Here's the one they're getting.... like it or not...... (Craig, this was what I was referring to in the other thread when I said I was taking my toys and going home)....

Thank you all for your help and your insight.... I love the direction this thread turned with emphasis on how much to do/don't do..... thank you.

Beth

Beautiful picture Beth, I'm sure they'll love it.

If not send em to live with me for a week, they'll be begging for forgiveness when they come back. :grin:

Thanks, Gary...... you made my day!

...... and, um..... hubby and I are taking you up on your offer..... their plane lands at 4 and we've told them they're going to Walt Disney World.....:devil: :lol: :grin:

Beth

we've told them they're going to Walt Disney World.....

Sorry I blew it up last night, there's gonna be none of that frivolous enjoyment stuff if they stay with me. :)

I hope you didn't tell them they were gonna be fed or anything, otherwise that's another nasty shock that's coming their way.

...... hehehe....... yeah, they're probably gonna wanna eat... I wonder if Craig has any room 'somewhere over there' cuz this whole idea is really sounding good.....

*starts closing doors and locking them* sorry, no room here!

gary, you're right about the photographer. was looking at beth's side of it re the in-laws.

looks great, beth :)

and yes, i thought that's what you were talking about (taking toys). just wanted to make sure :)

*banging on those doors*......Dadnabit...... I just knew you'd have room.....

....... hey.... I know..... maybe we could swing by Autumn Hills Nursing Home..... just for a 'visit'......:devil: ..... I'd better cut this out..... you never know when I might run for a political office......these things have a way of showing up at the worst possible time..... like that time ..... nevermind....:blush:

Thanks, Craig
oxox

What a delightful lady. I just gave her an ambient glow in virtual photographer and reduced the layer opacity till it seemed just to lift her. Did a bit of dodging and burning in the eye area also.

Hi Alison..... what a nice job you did! She would have liked your verson.... clean and natural looking..... she really is a fun person but does like to run the show... hehehe... thanks.... and, thanks for reminding me about virtual photographer...

Beth

Nice job, indeed.

I think you did an excellent job. I think you are right about the loss of richness in color. I hope you dont mind i tried to add back the richness but i believe i added a touch to much red. Would like your opinion on this. I looked more natural before i changed settings for save for web

Hi Unimatrix..... I really like what you did..... she has more of her real color.....

I tried using that 'recipe' in RGB color where you go:

Image > Adjustments > Levels > Blue Channel
Center Slider to 0.90
Image > Adjustments > Hue/Sat > Red Channel
Saturation slider to -7

On my monitor this recipe lacks a little 'something' but I guess it helps keep me closer to what most people like..... but I do like yours because it gives her warmth without being too red.....

Do you have a sort of formula for skin tones?

Beth

there are 4 images at the bottom it might be easier to look at them and try and follow the explanation. not very good doing that but here goes
dupe layer
image mode lab
dont flatten
channels pallet
select lightness channel
click visibility eye on lab channel
apply image
choose A channel
blending mode to overlay
hit ok
click on A channel
apply image
leave setting as they are just hit ok
click on B channel
apply image
leave setting as they are hit ok
this saturates the colors quite abit
then just use a hue saturation layer to reduce the amount of the individual colors.

You can also use the apply image in rgb mode
dupe layer
Image > apply image
select green channel (this usually holds them most skin detail and color)
mode to normal (this creates a b/w layer from the green channel)
in layers pallet set blending mode to luminosity
here are a couple of images using the green and blue channels in this manner

First, forget what you said about not explaining things very well.... I've come across this method before but couldn't 'get' it.....

You did an excellent job of explaining it!!!!! I'm copying this and can't wait to try it..... Thank you.... thank you.....

The results are great and I'm just so glad to have your nice, clear steps!

Beth

I dont claim to be a professional by no means. But i do get lucky every now and then. I have found that these procedures dont work with every photograph especially the older one where there is a lot of noise in the green and blue channels but i use them on most newer pictures from the digital era. I am glad that you could understand the steps i tried explaining this to a friend in an email and they couldnt understand what i was saying.
Thanks again for your kind words.