I tried to use some of the godmother techniques based on her video. Was hoping to get a little feedback on the skin retouch so far. She's right on one comment I read.. you're never done dodging and burning, man I have like 15 layers of curve adjustments already.

calm down on your sharpening.

i can't even remember last beauty shot that i even sharpened at all. at lest globally.

hmm how about this? I took off the sharpen layer....

it is better without the sharpen layer, but her eyes need more work, the far one is to dark, and the other is still blood shoot and has some weird gray patches in them.

here's another edit with the pores dialed down a tad and a tad whiter on the eyes....

yea but theres still a lot of things needed to be fixed…

hair is clipped, skin is too yellow, lips also, 3/4's are really yellow.

some teeth are blueish, even though they lye in the under the sahdow, they should be more uniform in color.

front eye need major work, back eye is completely clogged, open up that heavy black you have going on.

those aare just the mojor things i see right away, why dont you just try cleaning up the blemishes, and color correcting things, as well as fix the eyes.

to me that would look better than such a heavy rtouch.

i'd rather have no retouching on my images than bad retouching. (i.e. fake skin techniques)

GOOD STUFF HERE

i'd rather have no retouching on my images than bad retouching. (i.e. fake skin techniques)

I think this is uncalled for and quite rude.

i also like to do these like 5-15 min images to practice.

take a couple of images, spend only 5min, or 10min, or 15min, depending on your speed, do quick cleanup, quickly mask the skin, do your D&B, and adjust color, and overall linearization to the image to your liking. then stop.

show to others to critique, if you have photogrpaher friends even better, and see what they say, this helps improve your eye, since you only have 10min to work on it, it tests your skills to see the main problematic areas, and what would improve the image best. just helps you to really see the image as a whole and not worry about every litle area.

Ziaphra, i didn't mean that in a rude way, and it wasnt directed to that person's particular retouching or image.

i am working and typing really fast so i'm not making myself very clear at times, so a lot of my comments are a little cryptic.

i was just trying to make the point, that a lot of ppl on here also do, about skin techniques. when it looks obviously retouched, it doesn't look good.
-so, by not having that overly done rtouching, actually looks better, to me anyway. maybe i should have stated it better.

i'm sur most will agree.

sorry if you took that the wrong way beagle. but it wasn't meant that way!

no that's cool, I appreciate the honest feedback. :)

I do know what you mean but tactless comments (meant or not) via the anonymity of the internet still dig, especially when one is trying so hard to learn. ;)

my workflow on this one....

Duplicate background
Created a new layer for healing
Healed all the major blemishes, pimples, etc
Did some de-grunging
Started dodging and burning with curves layers (about 15 of em)
Desaturate adjustment layer
Selective color to bring down the yellows and reds

this was my first attempt at degrunging and dodge and burn so I'm still trying to get the hang of all the tweaks.

I do know what you mean but tactless comments (meant or not) via the anonymity of the internet still dig, especially when one is trying so hard to learn. ;)

Who made you the Polite Police? stfu already.

try the image again, this time using the same workflow, but excluding the degrunge step, and using only 2 curves for D&B. keep them in a folder, often, especially when starting out, your d&b'ing will be very heavy, you can bring the opacity of you d&b folder down a bit to like 70%, will bring back some natural look.

*use your desat layer to bring down the reds & yellows, no need for selective layer.

if you like to build some color back up, add a curve set to color mode to introduce some color back into the skin if it starts looking too desat. and flat. just watch out it doesn't look to monotone.

Who made you the Polite Police? stfu already.

..and you're another one...you are a talented but petty small minded person. Such a shame.

ziaphra, we're just trying to help this person, maybe they aspire to be hi-end.

getting feedback from guys like ant is about as close as you're gonna get to working under the wing of someone at a hiend retouching house, over the internet.

honest criticism is way better for them than sugarcoating anything and saying way to go champ.

it really helped me a lot, maybe i just have thicker skin. but we were all at that point at sometime.

i'd rather have no retouching on my images than bad retouching.)

Ziaphra

This is actually a pretty common statement in the industry, coming from both Photographers and instructors. It is not meant to be derogatory in any way. Although there are a few people that have managed to use it in a most destructful way.

Chris

I do know what you mean but tactless comments (meant or not) via the anonymity of the internet still dig, especially when one is trying so hard to learn. ;)This website is called "RetouchPro," not "Retouch Hobbyist" or "Photoshop for Fun." If the name means anything, it's necessary to stop pretending that sloppy work gets a pass. Good intentions mean nothing and tender feelings belong in a playpen.

In my other life I was and am a student and writer of poetry. A teacher long ago set the context for everything I've tried to do subsequently: he said "If you want to be taken seriously, and you want to take yourself seriously, face the grim fact that you're not competing with your classmates, or poets in magazines, or even the poets in this anthology. You're competing with Shakespeare. That's the bar that's been set, and if that's not the standard you aspire to, do something else." No less true for the creative efforts here.

mrbeagle, good for you, putting your work out there for all to see. And, it would appear, for listening. You seem to recognize that trying isn't enough. Actually, "trying" is just a P.C. way to avoid saying "failure." The only thing that counts is doing it right, and if it doesn't make the cut, there's no amount of spin that will compensate. And the only way to do it right is to spend a lot of time doing it wrong and learning to avoid whatever things you tried that made it wrong.

It's not about how you feel about your efforts, or about how anyone else feels either. It's about the image. And when you learn to look at an image you've just spent ten hours slaving over, and can deliver the same cold assessment that KR1156 gave, then you'll be about halfway there.

In another thread, Ant offered a marked up critique of someone's efforts. It wasn't blunt, or cruel, it was accurate. If one of the art directors I work for saw your image, it would come back with numerous red marks on the overlay (we call them "Slasher Shots"). Why don't you beat everyone to it, and provide your own markup. Be a real a__hole about it too. Have no pity or consideration for the retoucher's feelings. In fact, try to crush the poor sap's spirit. When your reflex to complain about your own work exceeds your instinct to defend it, you will improve dramatically.

It’s never easy to swallow when you think that you’ve created a masterpiece and someone comes along and points out all the faults that you need to improve upon. It might sound absurd, but a good part of the learning process of being an artist is to learn how to handle criticisms. I’d rather have my work critiqued, and perhaps, ripped apart by an industry professional than getting a pat on the shoulder by my family and friends. Your skills will eventually stop improving if there’s no one there to challenge you and you will fall behind.

i get my work crit. on a daily basis, by very hi-end and veteran retouchers, and i love it and appreciate that they take the time.

i've learned a ton in the last year. invaluable info. from these critiques.

as long as the criticism is constructive, appreciate it.

for me personally, i think the most challenging part, or area i find most difficult, is color. I've worken on some amazing photography lately, and just when i think i did great, i get areas pointed out where the color is suspect. but that's what is making me better every image.

plus, i put in a ton of time practicing all night long on hirez images, and it finally paid off.

as long as the criticism is constructive, appreciate it.


definitely feel the same

The skin lighting needs evened out on her forehead, it looks almost bumpy from the shadows. The lighting on the whole model is very contrasty, I might try and lighten up her left side a bit, but I guess it depends what look your going for. (or the photographers :) )

Is it just me....or is her fake eyelash on her right eye loose..

Hope you don't mind me playin a bit with this picture. Its a good one to learn on for skin, and I need all the practice I can get. I used the technique on this site this time around.

http://www.photoshopsupport.com/photoshop-blog/dl-blog/skin-1/Skin_Varis_202-215.pdf

Tried to blend in some of the different tones a bit...probably overdone, dunno. Starting to stock up on magazines though so I can get some reference.

Didn't touch the white of the eyes yet....trying to work out how to approach that without having it look flat and fake..

ok I'm back for more....
I went for a whole different workflow this time trying to take some of the advice in the thread (thanks all by the way!)

soooo I dialed everything way down (well tried to). It's funny this morning I swore that was the best retouch I've done. I came back tonight and looked and it and I could see it was blotchy as hell. I see what you guys mean about leaving and coming back after a few minutes.

anyway, here is a new before after with the same image.

thanks

forgot to ask, the new edit... same, better, worse?

mrbeagle the first retouch you have done on this image you have made the skin look wicked ( kink of like a lizards skin in a wired kind of way) and i just want to know how you did it?

i think it will look cool on one on my images

Looks a lot better than the first attempt. Still has a crossover of colors in the flesh. Need to balance it out. You have yellows. blues, magenta and pinks going on.
You really need to clean out the whites in her left eye. Also try to open up the iris on the eye in shadow just a little. It will add to the depth of the image. Soften down the hair below her nose and above her lip a little. Don't take it away though. There is a white bump/spot under her bottom lip that needs to go. Eyelashes on the left eye on the top row only should be more uniform. There is a crease coming out almost from the stud diagonally down to the left that should be removed. As well as some of the darker creases in the bottom lip. She has a small bugger in her nostril.
As I mentioned if you wish to send me the hi res to my ftp I will mark it up for you. Just let me know.

Chris

pretty nice improvement from the first, it's now at a much better starting point. Follow chris' lead and you'll be in a good place. nice going.

thanks Chris,
I'm not even sure how to tackle that left eye yet because it has so much going on. Do I mask it out, then paint white, lower the opacity then go in and do some d&b on any remaining spots? heal it? clone it?

[QUOTE=cricket1961;166677]Looks a lot better than the first attempt. Still has a crossover of colors in the flesh. Need to balance it out. You have yellows. blues, magenta and pinks going on.

Like KR1156 was saying I can find colour issues troublesome as well! I try to go by the number but sometimes still get some unexpected colours.

Chris what would your best method be to balance things out?
Would you just pinpoint the colour shift areas in curves chanels and adjust by numbers and eye? Do you ever find it good to desaturate some chanels like the red? I'd apreciate and tips or advice

ok I'm back for more....
I went for a whole different workflow this time trying to take some of the advice in the thread (thanks all by the way!)

soooo I dialed everything way down (well tried to). It's funny this morning I swore that was the best retouch I've done. I came back tonight and looked and it and I could see it was blotchy as hell. I see what you guys mean about leaving and coming back after a few minutes.

anyway, here is a new before after with the same image.

thanks

what was the workflow that you used the 2nd time?

ok here is the latest round based on Chris's comments. I'm still not exactly sure how to best color correct the skin. I tried following the cmyk points on her forhead and cheek but it just looked too red so I tried to eyeball it which probably isn't correct.

You can probably get away with desat the face with it set to desat blend mode at 50%. THen adjust the color from her cheek to a good balance and add some sat back in. Watch out for the teeth whites though.
Also, I just noticed that the bottom lip has a blue cast on it from the corner over.
The color of the latest is going over to the green side.
I assume you are doing the diagonal line and lashes later? The left eye looks better. The left eye might be a little to sharp, or it can just be because it is a jpg.

i tried to retouch lips lately (forum princess ice contest XD ) the result was so good it ended in the trash can. SOoo..., i tried many ways :

i started with a path with the pen tool to get a nice selection, then Hue/saturation which im not too fond of. so i tried color balance and even selective color in desperate atempt.

The thing is this: that does change color of the lip, ok. the result was fake and flat lips which i tried to enhance painting highlights and accentuate the shadows. what i got was a good look for new orleans carnival but not much of a pro retouch result...

what am i doing wrong ? where do i get warmer/cold ?:knockedou

Not a huge fan of a direct saturation/desaturation move either. But did you try using a sat adj layer sset to color or saturation?
Better results nearly all the time.

Chris

i tried to retouch lips lately (forum princess ice contest XD ) the result was so good it ended in the trash can. SOoo..., i tried many ways :

i started with a path with the pen tool to get a nice selection, then Hue/saturation which im not too fond of. so i tried color balance and even selective color in desperate atempt.

The thing is this: that does change color of the lip, ok. the result was fake and flat lips which i tried to enhance painting highlights and accentuate the shadows. what i got was a good look for new orleans carnival but not much of a pro retouch result...

what am i doing wrong ? where do i get warmer/cold ?:knockedou

just tried color/saturation mode... that works fantastic.
thanks a lot chris

glad it worked for you Taipan

Chris

chris: You are amazing contributer to this site...thanks for sharing, man! Everyday I visit to get tips/hints on how to do stuff!


cheers

gerry

here is my attempt...

curves, softlight layer coloring, Clone, heal, d&b...around 20 different layers...

anybody have anything to say...please say it! I'm open for suggestions good or bad :D

gerry

I think you could just let a lit bit of her overseer appearing....

But the whole thing is pretty good
I like it!

=)

I think you could just let a lit bit of her overseer appearing....

But the whole thing is pretty good
I like it!

=)The problem with a "pretty good" job is that the stuff that's left (that oh-so-crucial 5% that separates "pretty good" from "perfect") stands out all the more, all those things that the eye is drawn to, that you don't want calling attention to themselves.

The diagonal artifact along the top her nose is the most serious and blinds all to the nicely done cheeks and forehead. It's the first thing you see, and after that the game simply becomes a contest to find what else has been missed.

The shadow along her right eye has way too much going on. Needs to be simplified. There are actually four different levels of shadow there, forming an interesting little design in themselves, but not one you want competing with the work you've done.

That dark spot at the tip of her notril will attract a red pen like flies to dead meat. The shadow area under her nose is a little too obvious, also.

There are some irregularities along the top of her lip.

I see some stripes under her bottom lip.

As for the overall smoothing, I think it's gone too far. The comment that usually accompanies a shot like this is "Knock back" rather than "Remove," or "Smooth." Sometimes a sharp edge is there because it defines a shape. It's important to know what to keep, as well as what to remove.

That harsh shadow along the right side of her nose and mouth is there because her face has an actual contour that has been lost in your version. The problem is as much one of lighting as it is of wrinkles and irregular surfaces. Even though you want to compensate for the lighting, you want to keep a sense of that original shape. Likewise the stuff going on under her eyes.

One thing I like to do (at a step early on in the retouch process) is to simply obliterate everything with the healing brush, then pop the original wrinkles and shadows on top of the retouched layer and blend them in at a greatly reduced opacity. it's always a judgment call as to what goes, what simply gets reduced, what gets blended.

For example, there is a stray wrinkle beside her nose branching off from the main shadow. Clearly, that should go. Likewise the overly complicated edge of the shadow at the corner of her mouth. "Simplify" is the term usually used. As for the wrinkle/dimple on her cheek; it should definitely be knocked back, but an equal case can be made for doing it your way.

Overall, I think there is a much more interesting shape to her cheek in the original, imperfections notwithstanding. The muting of both highlight and shadows has lost that. It's gone flat, not just in terms of color and value, but in the actual Z-axis, the dimensionality of it. In the original, her cheek actually curves out towards the viewer. Those are some high-end cheekbones in there! You've kept some of that shape, and done a decent job of smoothing (though I'm seeing more texture in the original, albeit irregular texture) but, as I said before, I just think you've gone too far.

Good effort.

The problem with a "pretty good" job is that the stuff that's left (that oh-so-crucial 5% that separates "pretty good" from "perfect") stands out all the more, all those things that the eye is drawn to, that you don't want calling attention to themselves.

I see your point edge, aim always for the perfect! I'm learning that ;)

ok, been reading aaall posts from shellby byro chris godmother etc etc. i collected aaaall posts about skin retouch..i guess..So i came back on this image (first version didnt satisfy me) ..sorry for those who got tired of seeing it.

tell me what it lacks, what i forgot. (anatomy, contrast, technique whatever..)
and what u think of the photo too (centering/crop/lighting/composition..)

3 versions : original, retouched, and detailed.

there's just something about that bulging eyeball. (present in the original)

-if you try to reduce the size of the eye, it will not match up with the left one, and look totally fake. Maybe if you match the white parts of both eyes to a relatively close density, the right eye won't stand out so much.

just a suggestion.

**if you care about this shot, and really want to clean it up, try getting rid of these strays, it will make the image look cleaner.

the hair is what I see as an immediate thing here...when you get that under control the "framing" of the face would be calmer...IMO...

gerry

Edgework: Thank you so much...I'm working on a new part of the face...the shadow and the color...so if you would be ready for a new edititon within 24 hours I would be happy

CHeers


gerry

Don't take all of the strays out. And you need to fix the broken hilite in the forehead.

Not bad
Chris

It’s never easy to swallow when you think that you’ve created a masterpiece and someone comes along and points out all the faults that you need to improve upon. It might sound absurd, but a good part of the learning process of being an artist is to learn how to handle criticisms. I’d rather have my work critiqued, and perhaps, ripped apart by an industry professional than getting a pat on the shoulder by my family and friends. Your skills will eventually stop improving if there’s no one there to challenge you and you will fall behind.

Yes I think that's true, no matter how much the sting feels, when our work is critiqued by a industry pro. The work might be torn to bits by a working pro, but that might be a new beginning for the "up and comer."

We may show our latest work to our friends and they say, "oh, how nice, you do such fine work, keep at it." But take your book to LA or NYC, pound the pavement, and if you even get a 5 minute meeting with a top AD or photo editor in a retouching house, you'll know real fast if the look is pro level enough to get a job.

But I do believe in constructive criticism from reliable sources, someone who inspires and might give you a tip or 2 for things to fix and watch out for. I got a real master photographer in LA that gave me an hour meeting and critiqued my work. He showed me what he liked, what he didn't and what to look out for. Since that meeting, I literally changed everything and every way I shoot. And he was right about it all. After I look back on what I did then and what I have done since, I took a totally different path in lighting, retouching, everything in my workflow.He gave me some time and it meant a lot he would even to take the time to meet a complete unknown stranger like me, but what guidance he gave me.

Then again, it's best to be a bit discerning who we ask and if we respect their opinion and if they are putting your work down just to be mean and see what guts you have and if what they say is enough to discourage you from even moving forward. I don't mean you personally, all of us though.

I think the forum here is a good place to get some feedback on the work and tips to improve, experiment, and see what others might see that we don't.

JM2$ steve

here we go again....a new edition from the last retouch I got...Thanks so much from EDGEWORK that came with good pointer for me to follow...I feel I have covered all his point to some degree here...any suggestions?

the picture you see here now is the last retouch and the totally new retouch! please read edgeworks pointers earlier in this thread to to see what it's all about...

cheers


Gerry

Don't take all of the strays out. And you need to fix the broken hilite in the forehead.

Not bad
Chris

thank you all for the comments. ill work on the bulging eye and strays.
chris u mean the broken shape of the highlight ?(ie not round shaped)
im worried im having trouble spoting it out :-/

what u guys think of the sharpening ? i did a high pass on eyes/mouth /brows/hair.
still wondering if i should do an unsharp mask. im missing something there...

Yes I agree, face would look softer if you take out the freeze of the hair.

Going over the chris tarantinos site, I noticed how subtile everything is done.

Keeping that in mind, I did this one.
No blurring, no sharpening.

Going over the chris tarantinos site, I noticed how subtile everything is done.

Keeping that in mind, I did this one.
No blurring, no sharpening.


nice retouching, skin just a bit yellow in areas.

nice retouching, skin just a bit yellow in areas.

Thanks for comment KR

But what would be the right procedure to remove the yellow in those areas?
Selective color?
Or should I have avoided them in the first place?

cai: If you read the post edgework wrote for my first retouch you can get a sense of what's needed to be done...your facial color has some areas ha varies in tone...under the right eye, nder the lip and the shadow areas on the left cheeck, the foreheadhas some green tones in it...i use selective color and mask to focus on the areas that's neede to be changed...

gerry

If I were you I would probably just load the blue channel as a selection, inverse the selection and adjust the yellow through hue and sat or selective color. Then I would click on the adjustment layer mask and view it to see if I needed to make it a little darker so that the move didn't hit some yesllow areas that did not need the move.

Chris




Thanks for comment KR

But what would be the right procedure to remove the yellow in those areas?
Selective color?
Or should I have avoided them in the first place?

Thanks again Chris & Jerry

I did some color corrections.

If not better, I''ll have to recallibrate my eyes.:grin:

Besides the color imperfections, are there still any huge flaws?
(...and now I start shaking...)

i tried chris' method with your previous image, and it gave a great fix in 10 secs.

i loaded the blue, inverted, then hue/sat adj. layer, i went to the yellows and slid the hue bar to -19.

**forgot to mention i put it in color mode so tone didn't shift.

i tried chris' method with your previous image, and it gave a great fix in 10 secs.

i loaded the blue, inverted, then hue/sat adj. layer, i went to the yellows and slid the hue bar to -19.

**forgot to mention i put it in color mode so tone didn't shift.

Thank you all!

Great job!! Men this looks fabulous. I must say you guys have they eyes of ten hawks combined when it comes to looking at differences and spotting imperfections. fixing them, that's a different story all together. After reading edgework's comment, I know, I improve at least by 1 percent off the bat. With some practice, I should be making lots of people happy. Very soon. Thnx for all your hard work everyone!!!

Keep sharing,
~Lan Man

here is how I think it should look. A lot softer than you first version, the eye is pretty plugged up and opening just looked wrong. Still real fake looking but client seem to want this lately.

Selective colour use to low down red and yellow,less cyan too

I think you've done a great job. But i am curious: what is the GodMother video you mentioned? I'd like to have a go myself!

All for you :)


http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=j2mE8_ZN4ho