I had a private message, but it wasn't a new message (it had been there before but I hadn't noticed it, apparently) and it took me forever to find how to read it! There was no link to the user cp on the front page, and so I had to go into a thread, click on "send a private message" and then hop over to my private messages from that window. If I didn't run a vbulletin board myself, I probably never would have found it.

On the forum main page, at the bottom, is a section that says Private Messages. You just click on that to get to them... It also tells you if you have new ones waiting.

Also, in User CP, you can go to edit options and enable a private message popup box that will notify you whenever you have a new PM waiting.

Must have been my browser then, because "Private Messages" wasn't a link. That was what I tried first. This wouldn't surprise me since every once in a while my browser goes screwy on links.

I still think the user cp should be more accessable, though.

User CP is right at the bottom of the pop out menu bar on the left hand side of the screen. I think it only shows up when you are in the forums because it only relates to the forums and not the rest of the site (PMs are a function of the forums too).

I'm not sure what you mean by more accessable than on the pop out menu. I'd say you'd have to check with Doug on that possibility.

Ah, I hadn't noticed that the popout menu had extra stuff in it. Just from a web design standpoint, navigation shouldn't be confusing, though. Every other vbulletin forum I've been to has the links to the user cp, etc at either the top or the bottom, and anyone used to that format will likely be a little lost. That's all.

(and that side menu doesn't work if you have javascript turned off)

OpalCat: I felt the same way when I came here a few weeks ago, but no one would listen, they all think it's perfect, but we know better, it's not friendly.
Every day, I have to dodge that stupid flying menu to click on a subject.
Thanks for stepping up.

I'm probably a little sensitive because I'm a professional web designer, so I'm sort of "tuned" to that sort of thing.

OPALCAT...

As a relatively new RetouchPRO addict, I can relate to your comments. I, too, have background in tech design / development / support, and as a result found myself stumbling, occasionally lost and/or unable to find what I was looking for because intuition (based on experience) wasn't applicable in some navigational instances.

We both know that once apps are designed and in place, it's near impossible to implement significant design changes w/o starting from scratch. As I understand it this application was developed by a 3rd party = even harder to rearchitect.

Given this reality, here's some good news (I think)...

* It didn't take me long to get the lay of the land and figure out where the nooks and crannies are. It was kind of like moving to a new town and discovering where the inconvenient 1-way streets are or how to get around the "no left turn after 3:00 pm" annoyances. It's just another day at the office for persistent folks like yourself.
* Given your background, I'm sure in no time you'll be negotiating this site like you designed it (but not this way! :))
* As you read this post a "site map" is being developed that will hopefully make it considerably easier for new folks (and existing members) to find their way around. It's almost ready for prime time; should be posted in the next week or so (just a guess).

GREG:

In all fairness, I want to go on record as saying "From an architectural perspective I it is my opinion this site is not perfect." (LOL)

I'm sure if it was easy (and cheap) to fix some of the common annoyances, they would have been addressed a long time ago. What sometimes "looks" easy to fix, often isn't.

From a content and usefulness perspective, I've never found a better site. To me the glass is more than half full.

~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one who got a little frustrated at the outset. Sounds like I'm in pretty good company.

"If we focus on the donut, and not the hole, fewer Tums we will need!"

Cheers...

~DannyR~

I agree, Danny.

It's not that no one is listening. It's that changing things now would be similar to wrestling with a 100-armed octopus....

It took me less than 3 days to learn my way around here. Now, it seems like second nature.

And, if you've checked out the link at the bottom of my posts, you know we're all happy to help you look for something and/or answer questions.

I may be biased, but having "friendly tour guides" at your disposal nearly 24-7 would seem to make up for the minor design problems... :D

I'd be willing to change the template to show those links somewhere.... changing templates is very simple in vb. All I'd need is a text file of the current relevant template.

You can't please everyone :)

Of course, if things changed now, all of those who are used to it and know their way around would be wandering around lost...

I think Doug's right - no matter what was done or not done, there'd be someone who would prefer it to be different...

LOL well I wasn't saying to get rid of the existing stuff, just maybe add a few links at the bottom of the page somewhere.

Hey! Maybe it could be a new challenge... Like a 3-legged race... Or the one where you run with an egg on a spoon... Or an obstacle course even!

Who can figure out how to get to User CP fastest....!?

We could "tie" a little red ribbon on it for the winner to grab as a trophy. :lol:

Originally posted by Doug Nelson
You can't please everyone :)


I go to another site with the same basic format as this, but since it doesn't have the flying menu, it's much easier to navigate. The site is Wet Canvas.
Counldn't you at least slow it down. I atually have to race it to click things, and is not right, unless it's only my browser.

What browser are you using Greg? I've viewed this site with Interent Explorer 5.5, Opera 6.x, Navigator 6.x, Communicator 4.x...and it worked fine with them all. Communicator was the only one that occasionally had problems but it's a pretty crummy browser IMHO.

I'm wondering if it could't be a browser problem too, Greg.

I have never had to chase mine. I slide my cursor over to the left side of the screen, and the menu pops out and stays out for as long as I need it while my cursor is hovering over it. Then, when I'm done, I bring my cursor back toward the center of the screen and it slides back into its "drawer."

It never slides out accidentally, only when I hover my cursor over the gray bar. When I take my cursor off of the menu area, it disappears again.

The popout menu is one of the things I like best about the site. I think it's pretty slick. It's there when I want it, and when I don't it's not cluttering up my screen and taking up a lot of space that can be filled with more important content.

I'd be really disappointed if it were changed.

I am a professional web designer as well (isn't it funny how little that means these days?) Anyway, I think this is a great site considering that it is done in people's spare time (I think--- am I right about that?) It is well maintained and fairly user friendly. The thing is, in the world of web design, people complain about EVERYTHING. Like Doug says, you can't please everyone. If he were to have everyone that wanted a feature going in and editing this site, then it would be total chaos.

People will bitch because of color, size, javascript, contrast, font - anything you can think of. The thing is that people can do all kinds of weird stuff to their browsers, increasing font size, etc. that will screw up even the best web design and programming. All you can do is program/design to reach the widest audience possible, and change things as they come up if you feel they are worth changing, but no matter what you do, someone won't be able to figure it out or have it work correctly. That is where you have to look at your audience and figure in what percentage are you really loosing vs. how much time it will take to reprogram for that one person.

There are millions of variables.

I say this with a smile, so don't take it the wrong way, I can just relate to people complaining about every little thing. I have expressed some concerns as well, but I don't expect anything to be done about them, just because I know they can't please everyone. ;)

I'm *not* a web designer (surprise!) But I was a member before we had all the goodies. I think Doug has done a teriffic job! This site is *much* better than the old one. Is it perfect? Probably not, but it floats my boat! Danny mentioned the new site map. If it's anything like what I expect, it is excellent. Be patient!

Ed

I'll just throw in my 2 cents regarding the flyout menu. I use the most recent version of IE and my screen resolution is at 800 x 600.

I have not had the problems with having to chase anything but I am not able to view all of the links on the "forum section" of the flyout menu. If I hit f11 then I gain more screen real estate and I see the entire menu. I am pretty sure the F11 trick only works with IE. Hitting this key removes the address bar, links bar, and one other bar that runs along the top of my browser.

If f11 is not selected I can not see anything below the link that says search. It took me awhile to even realize that there were other links below, one of them being "user CP"

Once I get used to it, it's not a big deal, but newer members may experience the same problem.

Carl

I'm not into Web Design (yet) but I have never had a problem with navigating this site or the flyout menu. Of all the forums that I visit this is my favorite.

Carl,

Thanks for the tip on the F-11 key. I didn't need it to see the menu, but I'm using a higher resolution. That tip might come in handy for something else though.

Ed

Carl,

I had the same problem until I increased my screen resolution, then everything was easily visible. Changing my screen resolution made everything look microscopic though, so I changed the text viewing size in my browser to compensate. I think that's probably because a lot of people working with graphics have their screen res settings high.

I'll bet that Doug's computer settings while he was building the site affected the menu placement for people not using the same res settings.

It's natural for new folks (designers or not) to expect this site to BE a certain way, but all it takes is a little bit of time to learn the way it IS. I'm so happy with the recent improvements (including the flyout menu) that it's really hard for me to imagine how any newbie would have trouble finding anything, but it's bound to happen. As for any specifics problems with the flyout menu, during past discussions, it seemed to be individual browsers that were less compatible with the menu rather than any problem that needed to be fixed.

I'm sure that Doug will make future changes, either to fix something or just to make a change because he's bored with something, but at the present, it doesn't give me any problems that need fixing. It's always good to have feedback from new folks who see things from a fresh perspective, so keep critiqueing -- it will give "janitor" Doug a nice list of things to think about at 3AM.

I should clarify... I don't have a problem with the menu on the side. It's fine exactly as it is (except that since it's the only real navigation, anyone without javascript turned on is sort of SOL). I was simply saying that a simple set of links across the bottom might be a good addition.

Originally posted by G. Couch
What browser are you using Greg? I've viewed this site with Interent Explorer 5.5, Opera 6.x, Navigator 6.x, Communicator 4.x...and it worked fine with them all. Communicator was the only one that occasionally had problems but it's a pretty crummy browser IMHO.

I use Opera 5.02, I have NN4.7, and IE but don't like them much.

greg

Maybe the Java is the problem. I don't think I have it in my Opera 5.02.

Greg - I was able to reproduce your problem! I used Opera 6.x and it displays RetouchPro just fine....until I change the monitor resolution to 800x600. The window for Opera is then so small that the menu does not fully fit. You have to scroll down really fast to be able to use the bottom options. You can try running Opera at full screen or increase your monitor resolution...