If you tried, could you make a fulltime living from photo restoration?

Without a doubt, if I really put my mind to it, in time I could make a living doing restorations. But that's not in the plans at all. I'm a firm believer that if you want something bad enough, you can get it, at least in our country.

Ed

I tend to agree with Ed. The main thing to consider is how large an area you have to draw customers from and can that customer base afford the price one must charge to make a living. I suspect that reprinting from scans would also be a part of a "Restore" business. I am retired and live in a rather remote area with a very limited population yet I am able to do enough business to afford new toys now and again, so I suspect that if a person had the ambition and desire and lived in a more populated area, they could probably make a "go of it". Tom

I have used ofoto.com for getting digital photographic prints made and been happy with their quality and turn-around time as well. I hadn't heard of printroom.com, but will certainly check them out. Ofoto looks a little more expensive ($3.99 for an 8x10), but also offers 16x20" or 20x30" sizes. (I haven't ordered any of those, so don't know how the quality is on the larger ones or how they're shipped.) Just thought I'd throw in another possibility for printing.

Also, as for help getting a business started, here in CO we have the Small Business Development Center which gives cheap ($35) workshops on everything from Business Planning to Marketing on the Internet to Taxes and Recordkeeping to Small Business Marketing. I've taken a few (in a previous incarnation) and found them to be very informative. I don't know if other states have anything similar, but you might want to check into it.

Also, the U.S. Small Business Administration (http://www.sbaonline.sba.gov) has a ton of information on a wide variety of topics, e.g. the business plan (http://www.sbaonline.sba.gov/starting/indexbusplans.html).

Oh, I almost forgot the main topic of the thread: I sure HOPE I can make this a full-time business! I've been searching for a way to work from home and this certainly seems ideal to me. But, I haven't made a business plan yet and I feel like I need a lot more knowledge and practice before I start really marketing myself. So, I have only dreams to work towards so far.

Jeanie

I'm unrepentently insecure, so I sometimes think people don't read older threads. This is one I particularly want everyone to participate in, so I'm bumping it.

I voted maybe. I live in an area with a large population...I just have a hard time marketing myself. I'm not much of a "sales type", so I would probably need someone helping me with the marketing end of things. I have been pretty busy lately with one large job and a few smaller ones, but it's in no way enough work to make a living, although I only started a few months ago with actually trying to make some money off of restorations.

Finding the work is a very different challenge from what a freelance graphic designer would go through. In that business, most of your clients are businesses or ad agencies and they become repeat customers if they like your work. For photo restoration the clients are generally individuals (unless you can get work through a museum or insurance agency), so you have to market yourself a bit differently.

I'm not really sure what the best way to go about doing that is yet...maybe we could look at what other "freelance" types do. I once knew a woman who made a living making wedding cakes out of her home and she got all of her business via word of mouth!

I think this is a good thread, and to keep it going, I'll add my two pennies again. I think that any reasonably intelligent person can make it. If you try, and can't make it, you need to find out where your shortcomings are. If you need to be a better salesman, find a way to get educated about selling. If you just aren't good enough with Photoshop (or whatever), pur the time in to get better. Target your shortcomings, then work on them. When I took a professional photography course (not cheap), I remember one of the instructors saying "Do you think education is expensive? Try being uneducated". That saying stuck with me, and I fully believe it.

Ed

Ed - I think you are right about targeting shortcomings... I have no problem with Photoshop but I don't seem to have a saleman's bone in my body! I think most of that stems from fear. I'm not a real outgoing person by nature so I should spend some time overcoming that and learning some selling techniques.

I guess once you can start getting your foot in the door the work, if it's good, will sell itself in a lot of ways.

I feel that there is a living to be made from restoration but I too suffer the same problem. I' not good at promoting myself. I've done quite well out of it so far but would love it to become fulltime. I've had enough work to keep me pretty busy lately but I've almost completed all the jobs I have and don't know when the next one will come in. I just have to complete that composite photo of the two girls and their mother (another thread) and I'm out of work for now.
I've just added a new product,well I really should say am in the process of adding an new product to my business. I made a prototype CD clock with a photo on it, a customer happened to see it when she was picking up another job. She asked about the clock and liked it so much she ordered two then and there, even before I had worked out the pricing or any details for them. I didn't make much profit on the clocks but now I know what to charge in the future. So it looks like I may have found a way of using all those old demo CD after all. hehehe

Since I hack at restoration as a hobby, I can't speak from actual business experience, but I'll toss in my .02 because this is an interesting subject.

A "full-time living" is a relative term.

There's a pretty big gap between eeking it out (just barely getting by) and living comfortably. A lot, too, would depend on lifestyle, dependents, location, etc. So I guess my copout reply to the $64 question would be, "It depends."

Doing a quick scan of the Seattle area yellow pages, it appears photo restoration (in my area) is offered in conjunction with other services. That might be an indicator right there...Unlike the local grocery stores that have a captive audience (people have to eat), there isn't the same "need" for restoration work.

As others have stated the challenge of "getting ongoing new business" is not trivial, not just from the perspective of developing and implementing effective sales and marketing skills, but from a time perspective as well.

If I had to make a living at restoration (only), I don't feel confident that I'd be able to do so w/o offering other services as well. That said here's a couple thoughts on how I might approach "getting business."

Though you can't beat word-of-mouth referrals, there's nothing like a potential client source that continually renews itself. I'd make a run at somehow getting my foot in the door with local public and private schools for contract photo work (traditional school pictures) or specialty stuff like proms or graduation pics, etc.

Doing a little pro bono work for churches might provide opportunities to market to congregations.

Plugging into the "newborn" market would seem to be another potential source for ongoing business.

Hanging out at local events (sports, theater, classy restaurants, whatever) and taking 'complimentary' pictures of couples, buddies, etc. might be an effective way to market. Most people like having their pics taken... When you get names/addresses for mailing the 'complimentary pics,' this provides marketing opportunites.

Doing something similar (with preapproval from parents) at local soccer fields or ballparks (taking pics of kids "in action," not just the cheesy sitdown or team shots) is probably something parents would pay for and, again, would provide additional restoration marketing opportunites.

Now that you've read this far, you know why I actually DON'T DO restoration as a full-time business! :) My compliments to those who do. Isn't great to do something you truly enjoy!

~DannyR~

Salesmanship consists mainly of treating your clients and/or potential clients as you would want to be treated. By this I mean be honest, avoid high pressure type tactics, obfuscation and exaggerated claims. If you are genuinely interested in your clients, their photos and helping them preserve their treasured memories and project this by your atitude and demeanor, you will not loose many sales. Those who use any tactic to get a sale are better suited to Carnival midway type work than serious Professional type vocations. It takes time to build up a successful business and the best advertising is word of mouth coupled with some exposure in newspapers, flyers etc.. Telling yourself " I'm no good at this or that" is to be avoided. Rather, just resolve to be honest and friendly with your customers and they will respond. Just give it time. Integrity and honesty are your best advertising tools. Tom

Tom:

I agree with everything you've said here. It's based on time tested practices of successful businesses.

Just about everyone has heard of the Nordstrom success story. They built their business and reputation on truly exceptional customer service and a "no questions asked return policy." For example salespeople in the shoe department would greet customers "by name"; salespeople in clothing departments kept personal notes on customer preferences and (literally) sent hand written notes with notification of upcoming new items or sales. Now, that's service worth telling others about (and it worked).

If walk-in, word of mouth or traditional advertising are not sufficient to generate enough business to "make a living" and one wants to stay in business, then other forms of creative promotion and salesmanship are warranted. ("If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.")

I hope you didn't interpret my 4 a.m. rambling thoughts to suggest antics such as running in front of people, snapping a photo and shoving business cards in their faces. (After rereading my post, perhaps you [and others] did.) If so, those types of tactics would turn people off faster than a cold bucket of water in the face. (Wait a minute... water would cool them off... but you know what I mean.:)) Nobody would like to be treated like that.

If, on the other hand, you approched potential customers, introduced yourself and briefly explained a service that might be of interest to them and then offered a complimentary sample, that might lead to a business you wouldn't get otherwise.

Bottom line: Honesty, intregity and customer service are essential to succeed in any business. Thanks for sharing your wise words. I wish more of the businesses I normally deal with practiced what you preach, and I mean preach in the positive sense. Isn't it too bad these days that "exceptional service" is the exception and not the rule?

I think I'd have a heart attack if I pulled into the local 7-11 for gas and an attendant ran out, pumped my gas, checked my oil, washed the windshield and put air in the tires without being asked, without expecting a $5 tip and w/o paying an extra half buck a gallon. There I go dreaming again. ;)

~DannyR~

Yes, I am focusing on this business exclusively for my work. I am gearing my initial marketing towards individuals in my community & family. I see a tremendous potential revenue source in publicly funded photo archive preservation & restoration. In my area, the local historical society has a mountain of important photos that are being poorly preserved. I am in the position to grow this business slowly at first since there is so much to learn and to consider regarding all the aspects of a well run photo restoration service.

I am so interested in sharing and developing production strategies with all of you who have experience in film output and lab services. I think Giclee prints have great potential. And of course, I think this new Epson 2200 is going to be great.

RetouchPRO is certainly a fantastic resource. Thank You Doug for your tireless work. I hope you make millions of dollars doing this.

I kind of see a pie chart where photo restoration is a third, and my fine art print sales is a third, and a small framing studio all interact and thrive. I have worked in framing but it has been a long time. The hardest part for me is believing in my vision in the fine art realm. In the end, it is all the same. I have been developing a set of Botanicals two of which have apeared in the Members Gallery. More ways to make money than there is time to make it.

Gerry

My wife/girlfreind/partner and I have a small creative services business. She is graphic designer and I am a commercial photographer. Together we we offer a variety of graphic arts services including restoration and retouching. Our shop is in a small town historic district so we have a fair number of antique photos come in for copy and restoration. There is a pretty eclectic community of artists and authors here and we get some interesting ad work which usually involves photography, retouching and sometimes rather extreme manipulation. Some months we log $75.00 for a quick scan, clean and print and that's it; other months I sit here working on images non-stop and the invoices add up to $2000 or $3000.
The fact is, we can't make a living on JUST retouch/restoration but it is a significant component of our business.

...so I didn't actually vote on this survey because my answer is, "Yep, sort of, but we have to do other related stuff too".

Funny this thread pops up today. I just today put in my notice at the photo lab I work to pursue my own interests. Im lucky enough that I have made enough contacts in the last 5 years that I hope I can make a go of this. I am glad I offered exceptional customer service, and most of my clients were very happy with me, and know me by name.

If not, at least I can plan on working temp work until I get enough business that I can work at home.

The lack of health care, and the amount of taxes I will have to deduct from my profits is scarey, but Ive been itching to do this for over a year now. And I hope the time is ripe enough.

Im just lucky I can photograph, retouch, restore and even throw in graphic design and web design... So Im hoping something will pay off.

Wish me luck.

THE SCAREY THING!!!! And this is important. One of the MAIN reasons I am leaving. Kodak has come out with facial recognition software and has incorporated into an AUTOMATED facial retouching program. ITS IS CRAP!!! And my employer has bought it hook line and sinker. I have seen it, offered advice, and no one ever listened to me. So today as they bring in some mega computer that can barely run the program, I put in my notice. BEWARE PEOPLE!!! BEWARE!!!!!

My boss takes pictures, and I restore them to a saleable product.

I too work from home part-time retouching but I work full time in the field of photography, right now I work for 3 or 4 photographers commercial and portrait doing image enhancement and retouching. I can honestly sat that this year 20% of my total income will be from part timing it. I believe that I would easily be able to change to full time (and have considered it seriously) but honestly.... growing up in a family that owned its own business, It makes me balk at the idea of doing that to myself. It means even longer hours, late nights and more headaches. Do I think I could love doing it full time? yes. Do I want to take that responsibility on at this time in my life? not particularly. In the future? who knows.

Oh and I almost hate to say this.... but the software that was spoke of in the thread, the one that auto-retouches images? Well I know that software pretty well as I am one of the people that assisted Kodak in the beta test. Do I honestly think that KPARS (Kodak's Professional Auto Retouching Software) will take all of the jobs from the retouchers out there? I really doubt it.... As was mentioned in a previous post, the software is not perfect by a long shot. Its main intention was to do mass amounts of images at a time (and I mean hundreds upon thousands) you really don't have the control over the images that you would doing them one by one but when your faced with retouching 1000 kids from the ages of 5-15 it can be helpful in softening lines, removing light blemishes and really thats about it. It has problems with doing multiple heads and heads that you can't make out all of the features i.e. one eye covered by hair etc. So yes the rumor is true, is it as bad as it could be made out to be? Personally, I don't think so..... after all a machine cannot produce art.... it is a tool, the artist produces true artwork. People used to complain about us "digital" retouchers, that we weren't true artists... it wasn't until they understood the tool (and some still don't) that they could see the value of it.

Bill

I think you've missed the harm caused by automation.. it's the perception that restoration and retouching can be done quick and easily by machine.

Well i'm sorry I didn't bring that across the right way (I guess) I didn't mean to "endorse" auto-retouching software in any way. The only thing I was trying to say was that automation is here and places that do a high volume of retouching (i.e. a school lab) will jump all over this software. No I don't endorse it.... its just a fact. I never said that automation could replace an artist, NOT EVEN CLOSE.... No I don't see this software pulling off headswitches, artwork, restorations.

And when I saw the post I figured I would put my two cents in (for what its worth) since I have worked with the software first hand. And being one of the team of decision makers for my place of employment, I know that the software cannot replace ANY of my artists..... not even one. Nor do I want it to, I am a retoucher/artist myself and would hate to see even one person lose their job because some software package does it better (and thats a funny thought in itself..... just think, an algorithm that reads the contours of the face actually doing a better job than the human eye? Again, its not happening.... at least not today) than they do (and again that is a looong way off) but the value that I do see in it? It will bring in more business that I didn't have before, allow me to do jobs that I wasn't able to do before (for the simple fact that I didn't have the manpower) and provide a service to my customers (again we are talking about grade school kids.... by the thousands.... I don't have the manpower or the funds to take that work on right now, but I DO have customers that want us to do the work.)

Believe me I have had to re-assure several of our retouchers about this, I don't enjoy using the software in question....... but I will tell you that I am not ashamed of what I have posted, it was meant to be informative...... to possibly reassure the artists out there that in my opinion (again for what its worth) will not just be thrown to the wayside.

Its just another tool, thats all nothing more.

We not only have technology, but offshoring to worry about as well.
My understanding is that some of our local camera stores and photo labs will take your print, scan it in the store and ship the file to S. America and are able to charge a flat fee of $50. If I understand correctly, the restored images are given back on a floppy - not sure how good of a quality that would be given the limited file size the floppy takes.

I would really love to do this full-time, but I'm kind of a shy person and not very good at marketing myself. Also, it would be a big leap of risk as I have worked for a fairly large corporation (non-photo related) most of my working career and have not had to worry about liability and actually running a business. I've always had a steady income, so that part frightens me a bit. I am seriously considering doing restorations on a part time basis and also have a steady income from another part time job...kind of easing into it I suppose. Right now it all hinges on how fed up I get with my current employer and all the politics that go with a corporation. :grin:

If you tried, could you make a fulltime living from photo restoration?

Interesting that nearly half here say maybe - but would need a lot more jobs.
There is another approach. Specialize and charge more! The same number (or even fewer jobs) can give you a shot at moving into six figure incomes.

I use two words in our advertising to bring in the really tough cases. "Disaster Recovery" It's easy to get top dollars when everyone else has already told the prospective client that it can't be done and disaster work generally involves collections rather than just an image or two. Every state has floods, every city fires - and people are always on TV saying "and we lost all of our photos". Talk to the guys in your local fire department, call the insurance agents in your town, check with the "restorers" - those firms that go in and clean up after a disaster - show them all what you can do and soon the word will be out.

Personal opinion - working with Insurance appraisers is a lot easier than working with Art Directors and a whole lot more profitable! :-)

Jim Conway
Timemark Photo Conservators

Never heard of ofoto.com.....have been using whcc.com (White House Custom Color) for awhile, and have been very satisfied with their output as well as turn around. Two day shipping is included in what I think is a great price. Printing as well as mounting options available.

Lynn

(Doug...I'm reading older threads.....I'm just a few years behind here!)

This is off topic slightly, but the top decision makers of large corporations are notorious at not listening to those in the trenches, like yourself. When wasting money on something that is garbage.....The fools have been sold a bill of goods by some slick salespitch. Once the decision has been made, no matter how bad it was, there is no turning back, it would be too humbling. All the best to you in your new business.

Hi everyone,
As someone that USED to make good money at this type of business, I have seen a real down turn in business in the last year. It seems a lot of people are trying to do this type of work on their own with their own computers and software. I was successfully catering to professional wedding photographers and a local lab for many years. Now I'm scrambling for work. :bawling: I know the wedding photography business in general has taken a big hit with everyone buying those digital cameras and having relatives photograph their weddings (instead of a professional). I have to find a way to market myself, something I thought I never would have to do. All my business came in by word of mouth and believe it or not, I had to LIMIT myself because there was TOO MUCH WORK out there for me to handle! I'm not a real aggressive person, so this is not coming easy. I have visitited some local studios with little success. They all tell me the same thing...either they are doing the retouching themselves or they are just not getting much business in, period. In the mean time, I'm looking for another part time job. I had one at a photo lab, but my position got phased out since the labs are hurting too.

It's been a tough year for us as well - down nearly 20% and with that goes the profits - 2004 was the first year that I have ever lost money since I switched into doing nothing but photo conservation work about fifteen years ago.

That also makes this the first year that I have even had to think about looking for new business! The small jobs that were the icing on the cake are gone now so we are living on the highly specialized work. There has to be replacements for the jobs lost to the $300 scanners that claim to be the equal to pro-retouchers but not sure what that will be just yet, I'll let you know when (if) we do.

Another thought, people buy into the hype of instant cures and generally come around to facts over time so maybe it a case of waiting it out if you are young enough. Desktop publishing was a perfect example -- for nearly a decade every home in America had one or more family members that was a "Desktop Publisher" - it hurt the legitimate printers for awhile but the good ones survived until the fad ran it's course and many are back on target in a better than ever profitable industry now.

Jim Conway

I voted that I'd need a lot of jobs coming through to quit my job and go solo just retouching photos even though retouching is a significant percentage of the work I do every day.

ive been tinkering with this idea myself lately,especially since being laid off from my job about a month ago. ive been doing photo restoring pretty much as a hobby for family & friends, but seeing that i have no real job at the present time what better time to consider it doing this full time. but ive had some of the same thoughts as some of the earlier posts on this subject, marketing, steady work flow, ect. ect. unless i overlooked 1 of the earlier posts i didnt see anybody mention Ebay which has an area for creative services (which ive actually done, and had a couple of small jobs) could you make a living just from Ebay listings? i highly doubt it, but you can get a few jobs.. i guess if you do enough work whether locally or through the internet and do a great job and have satisfied customers, its all word of mouth after that.. the only thing that really worries me is. since almost everyone has a computer nowadays and can learn how to do this themselves they would have no need for people like us, and i say that because 2 years ago my mom asked me to look up on the internet for people who did photo restorations , becasue she had someting she wanted done after seeing their prices i decided to look further into the art of doing it and ended up learning it myself.which im glad i did cause i love doing it. anyways thats my .02

Im just lucky I can photograph, retouch, restore and even throw in graphic design and web design... So Im hoping something will pay off. I am running a similar business to the one you are starting. I have been in business for a few years. The first year was great, the second was good but last year was awful. We made the mistake of moving to a small town and the business tanked. My husband has been working outside the home and supporting us. We were maining offering services to photo labs on a whoelsale basis, but now everyone is "doing it themselves". We are planning on moving to a bigger city and giving it a go again.

All I need to make this work is customers. Sounds so easy...