This problem has been plaguing me for about a month and I finally spent all day (until midnight) yesterday trying to track down the problem. I'm stumped, so I thought I'd ask for help from those who possibly have gone before me.

I'm running W2K with an NTFS file system and a Western Digital 60GB disk as my main disk; a WD 13GB disk as a "spare". There are a few sub-directories in "My Pictures" which are causing problems when I try to open them in Windows Explorer. For example:

My Pictures
-OSY photos
--Bullhorn
--Final versions
---B&W
--Scene

When I click on the B&W directory to view the files in it, I get an error dialog box saying: "Explorer.exe has generated errors and will be closed by Windows. You will need to restart the program. An error log is being created." When I click OK, Windows Explorer disappears, the screen blanks for a minute, then everything (minus a few of my startup task bar icons and Windows Explorer) reappears.

You would think that at least one file in the B&W directory is trashed, but if I open the Final versions directory (again in Windows Explorer) and drag the B&W directory to my spare disk (causing it to copy), I have no trouble opening the B&W directory on the other disk (which is FAT32 BTW) and none of the files appear to be corrupted in any way.

It gets stranger - SOMETIMES I am able to open the B&W directory on the main disk and everything is fine (i.e., no error), but in all cases, if I am in Outlook and try to open the B&W directory to attach a file in that directory to an e-mail message, Outlook "blows-up", i.e. any and all windows associated with Outlook simply disappear with no error message at all.

Also, when I try to run Norton SpeedDisk to defrag, I get the following error as soon as it tries to start moving things around on the disk (after going through the initial sort): "Norton Speed Disk encounterd a device I/O error on drive C:. Run CHKDSK /R to fix any bad blocks that may exist on this driver." (This is AFTER I've run Error Checking on the disk which comes up with NO errors.) So, I dutifully schedule CHKDSK /R to run at the next boot - and it finds NOTHING. Try to run SpeedDisk again and I get the same error.

I finally got smart last night and pulled out the diagnostic tools that came with the Western Digital drive. The Quick Test did come up with a bad sector, which is indicated it fixed. The Extended Test (which sends Read Verify commands to every "part" (not sure of the correct term) of the disk came up with nothing.

I rebooted and STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS with explorer.exe and Outlook crashing when I try to access the B&W directory (along with a couple others) - and Speed Disk gives me the same error. I went back to the disk diagnostic tools and ran them one more time. They came up with nothing.

WHAT IS GOING ON?!? Is this a bad disk or a problem with Windows? When we (my husband and I) looked at the dumps that Dr. Watson produces when explorer.exe crashes, most of the routines being accessed have to do with Heap Allocation, but not all - and definitely not the same routine being called each time.

I'm about to go out and buy a new disk (two actually). Best Buy has 60GB Maxtor's for $70 this week and I've heard that Maxtor has better reliability than Western Digital. I'd really like to know if this is a problem with the disk or not, because if it's not, I'll give it to a family member to use. Any ideas on how I can determine where the problem is?

As an aside (or possibly linked, I'm not sure), this problem started showing up when I hooked up my new Epson 2200 printer. At the time, I had the printer hooked up directly to my USB (1.0) port, and a USB hub with my scanner, graphics tablet and ethernet-to-USB connector. That configuration REALLY caused me problems with the explorer.exe crashing eventually becoming an infinite loop on boot-up. (I had to use GoBack to get out of that problem.) I found if I unhooked my ethernet, the problem did not return, but if I left it hooked up, it returned every time I printed something. I got an ethernet card and hooked up my ethernet cable directly to it and the problem seemed to go away for a couple of weeks, until two days ago when I printed a few pictures and all of a sudden, I got the explorer.exe error message - which became another infinite loop of crashing when I tried rebooting. Thank goodness for GoBack! I have no idea if the problems showing up after printing (which didn't happen for a couple of weeks!) is merely coincidence, or if there is some link. Come to think of it, two days ago, I did print a file from a directory that later caused me problems when I tried to attach a file to a mail message. The printer was not even turned on yesterday however - and I still had problems with the B&W directory.

ARGH!!! :mad:

Jeanie

Random thoughts...Haven't had coffee yet. :D

Have you considered offloading the data from the failing HD, fully reformatting it the HD, restoring data and trying again? [That's pretty radical, I know.]

Sounds kind of suspicious that the problems came up after you started changing hardware configurations. [Another radical thought: Completely reconfig you system to pre-2200 days.]

Do you have a nearby friend/relative who has a computer to which you could connect the suspected drive for a test flight (as is - with data) to see if you can get to the data from an alt config?

Have you considered offloading the data from the failing HD, fully reformatting it the HD, restoring data and trying again? [That's pretty radical, I know.]

No more radical than getting a new HD and reinstalling everything. Problem is, I don't currently have a HD big enough to offload to - which is the purpose for buying at least one new HD. Perhaps I'll buy the two HD, copy everything to it, reformat the failing HD and see if it works. If so, I can always return the unused HD.

Sounds kind of suspicious that the problems came up after you started changing hardware configurations. [Another radical thought: Completely reconfig you system to pre-2200 days.]

I'd rather start from scratch so that I know I have a clean system installed.

Do you have a nearby friend/relative who has a computer to which you could connect the suspected drive for a test flight (as is - with data) to see if you can get to the data from an alt config?

Unfortunately, no one running an OS that will recognize NTFS.

Thanks for the thoughts. Let me know if you think of anything else after some coffee. ;)

Jeanie

Jeannie, I have no experience with your setup, so all I can suggest is checking with a website in my area that offers advice from computer tech students at the local community colleges. Their answers are not always right on target, but it's worth a try. There is a database of already asked/answered questions (check it first, but yours sounds more technical than the usual fare they have been asked). There doesn't seem to be a "residence requirement" for asking questions. :)


Computer problems.com (http://www.computerproblems.com/maintoc.cfm)

J, As a basis to work from I'd go on Westerns site and see if they have a hard drive check utility to see if the drive is is mechanically corrupted before barking up a few wrong trees.

Chris, I thought that's what the diagnostic tools that came with the HD did - checked for mechanical failure. The "Quick Test" apparently checks for bad sectors and attempts to repair them. The "Extensive Test" sends "Read Verify" commands to each sector on the disk. Is there something else that would determine a mechanical failure? (I'll check on the website, but I think I have everything WD has to offer.)

CJ- thanks for that link. It looks interesting. I read through a few of the knowledge base entries. Nothing seems to fit my particular case and I'm hesitant to ask such a detailed/individual question which most likely no one else will ever experience. But I might if I get desperate! ;)

Jeanie

I'm not that fantastic on drive errors (especially after a few beers!) but I think your best bet would be to remove what ever data you can from the drive - to a drive that you know has no bad sectors and then reformat the drive so that it finds the bad sector and removes them from use. Maybe partition magic 8!.
If you find that data that you have removed does not print correctly or has other errors try saving it again as this might have been where the bad sector were.
If you are going to buy a new drive I would steer clear o western digital and IBM as they have both have had bad publicity with bad sectors. I have had problems with western and IBM in the past and avoid them now. IBM is not as bad as western in my opinion.

Hope this helps. It might not be the end of your current drive but you must get a program to identify the bad sectors and write them to its boot record.

Clare

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - esp. Chris! :)

I went to the WD website and noticed that in addition to downloadable diagnostic tools (which I already had and ran last night), they also have a "online diagnostic" which I ran from the website. As it turns out, the online diagnostic failed multiple times with "DFP_GET_VERSION failed" - which I assumed meant it couldn't read some vital info on the HD. It recommended I call support for warranty info. As it turns out, the drive is still under warranty and their solution to my problem is to send me another drive!

So, I'll go out and buy the Maxtor this afternoon and do a clean install, then use the new WD as my backup drive when it arrives. (I realize that using a drive with so many publicized problems is probably not the best disk to use as backup, but I'm not sure I want to deal with more problems like this in the future on my main drive. So, what to do? Sell the new WD drive on eBay and get two new Maxtor drives? Opinions on that would be appreciated. ;)

Jeanie

Jeanie - It's probably a good idea to get an extra drive...just for backup purposes. I just did that myself a few months ago. The problem you are having sounds like a corrupt file...maybe. :) As far as WD drives...that's what I just bought! So far it's worked like a charm and the WD drive I have in my old computer is in it's 4th year.

J,

Glad you've made some progress ! What do you get with a new hard drive in the US. All the drives I've ever bought here have come with a plastic bag and some jumper info. Never had any software supplied. When my last IBM drive expired I was warned off Western Digital everybody consulted suggested Maxtor.

Jeanie I think you'll find that SOMEONE has had a problem with virtually every hard drive manufacturer out there. I’ve had Fujitsu drives in my last two computers with absolutely no problems.

Most new drives I’ve seen have a 3-year warranty. That should be long enough to root out any problems.

Just something to look for. If you're thinking about a Maxtor drive, at least some of them (maybe all) will soon be (or already are) coming with a one year warranty. So if you're considering one, now's the time to check them out before they change the warranty period, which I *think* will be coming very soon. Mine came with a three year warranty.

Ed

Well, I bought two new drives today. I figure I can return one if I decide I don't need it after thinking it through better. I also decided I'm not going to attempt a new install until AFTER I get back from vacation. I'll make sure everything is backed up (still have a few files that need to be backed up, but the "important stuff" is on CD - which I've checked and double checked!)

Greg - when you say an "extra drive" - do you mean one that's not actually hooked up, or are you referring to having one backup disk for your main disk (my planned configuration)? And I think you're right about the corrupt file - like one of the really important system files (since my data files seem to be fine)!

Chris, I haven't opened the box yet, but if I remember correctly from my last HD (not that long ago), there was a cable, jumper info and a floppy disk with some disk diagnostics. However, the disk was corrupt, so I had to download the diagnostic software from the web to another floppy.

Gary, you're right that someone has had a problem with every HD manufacturer. It's really easy to find people who "stay away" from IBM and WD though - you don't hear that as much about the other manufacturers.

Ed, I read about Maxtor reducing their warranty to one year last night as I was researching new drives. However, the disks that I bought today say "3 year warranty" on the box. I assume if the box "advertises" it, they have to honor it. But, I'm not sure.

Jeanie

Jeanie - By "extra" I meant a second "slave" drive to use for backup and scratch disk purposes. Trust me, you will breath much easier with a second HD!

There's a quick and easy solution to those hard drive problems you guys are having.

1. Unplug your PC.
2. Toss it in the trash.
3. Buy a Mac and install OSX.
4. Relax and enjoy!

Phyllis :)

ummm....the G4 at the last place I worked at had it's HD die 3 times in 6 months! Mac hardware (HD, video cards, etc...) is generally the same stuff you get in any decent PC....only they slap a much higher price tag on it! :D

(Greg ducks in anticipation of a "Mac attack")

Jeanie - Did your avatar just become animated or have I just been blind all this time? :)

I went off WD after their Caviar range. Had about 10 of them die just after their warranty expired. I stick with Seagate.
(Greg ducks in anticipation of a "Mac attack") :lmao:

Greg, Jeanie's had that avatar since Rondon's famous thread.:cool:

Al - I must be blind!

You have all made me paranoid...I think I may need to sacrifice something to keep my Western Digital happy!

I think I may need to sacrifice something to keep my Western Digital happy!A Seagate or a Maxtor maybe? ;)

I was thinking more along the lines of the giant moth that flew into the house a while ago...must like the HD light! :tongue:

I've had similar Explorer weirdnesses. I personally doubt it's the HD, but any excuse for a 2nd HD is a good one :)

Try going to the command line and seeing if you can access the dir from there. Try renaming it from the command line to one simple word. If it's the drive this will crash as well. If it doesn't crash, try reading it from Explorer with the new name.

I suspect a software conflict, at least that was the problem I had. I never tracked down which one it was, but many programs add calls to Explorer. I reinstalled Windows and all was fine.

Jeanie,
Just a thought, if you are sending your drive back to the Manufacturer then it would be worth your while to go into fdisk and clear the drive and then format a minimum of 7 times! I know this sounds drastic but it resets all the ones to zeros and makes sure all the zeros stay as zeros. You don't want anyone getting hold of your data.
Clare

G.gouch Sacrifice seems like a good idea - moths na - find a spider! they make better sacrifice candidates!

Clare's rite about clearing your disk. Doug and TG discussed it on this thread (http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3053).

Wow - thanks for all the discussion!

Greg - I understand being paranoid! That's why I bought two Maxtor drives yesterday. I'm debating on whether to return one and use my WD drive for the backup/scratch - or if I should keep both Maxtors and give the WD to my sister who could use more space, but doesn't have the same "critical" need I do. (Of course, her BIOS might not even support the larger drive. :( )

Oh, and you've only been blind for a few months. I've had an animated avatar for about 3 months now, but not until a month or so after RonDon's thread really took off. (I'm obviously not an early adapter! ;) )

Thanks for the suggestion on tracking down the explorer problem Doug. I'll try that.

Clare & Al, yes - I'd already planned on doing that. I hadn't planned on 7 times, but I'll take that seriously as I get the feeling you speak from experience. My disk diagnostic software has a tool which will write 0's to the disk, so I'll do that first, then all of the Windows stuff. Thanks for the tip.

Jeanie

Doug, FYI I was able to rename the problem directory - and even view all the files in it in the command prompt without any trouble. Back in Windows Explorer, it still crashes explorer.exe when I try to view the files. I would say you hit the nail on the head. Not that I wish any problems for you, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who's run into this.

Don't worry - I'm still keeping the new HD!

Thanks, Jeanie

J,

Ref my previous post, What came with your Maxtor HD ? did you get any disc utility software or other material? Just interested I've no doubt manufacturers assume their disc checking progs will be downloaded from their sites.

Chris,

Just opened the box. Here is the content list:

1 - 60GB HD
1 - Max*Blast Plus II floppy (Maxtor HD Installation Software)
1 - Max*Blast Plus II CD (same thing)
1 - Quick Start Poster
1 - 30-page Installation Guide
1 - Hardware kit including ATA interface cable, 5.25" mounting brackets & screws
1 - [Requisite] ad for other Maxtor products

Jeanie

make both your drives fat32

Originally posted by Nick Carter
make both your drives fat32
Can you please explain why? I've been running NTFS and was happy until this problem - but perhaps that's why the problem showed up?

Jeanie

Your running your drives under two different filing systems.
NTFS, its mainly for the windows NT operating systems but can be used by 2000 and XP. Fat32 is used by win98, 98SE, 2000 and XP

On rereading your original I see that your Win 2000 main drive is using NTFS, so I recommend converting your data drive to NTFS, as you cannot convert your NTFS back to Fat32.

This may help you
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q100108

It may fix your problem, whatever it is best to have the same filing system on your drives.

Nick,

I'm not trying to argue - just trying to understand...

I don't understand why it's best to have the two drives with the same file system. I wanted to run NTFS for my main drive because from everything I've read, it is supposed to have better reliability. But, I kept my second drive as FAT32 so that I can share files with my husband's networked computer - he's still running W98SE, thus can't read an NTFS volume. Am I compromising the reliability of the NTFS drive by running a FAT32 drive with it?

I'm a fairly technical person, so I like to understand the underlying reasons why someone suggests something - or pointers to go read for myself. I understood everything in the link you provided, but it didn't address having two drives with/without the same file system.

Thanks, Jeanie

Jeanie,

Sorry to jump in so late on the thread! I agree with Doug that this is not going to be a hard drive problem. One question ... have you installed service pack 3 for your Win2k system?

If so, did the problems start after this install and if not, you should consider this OS upgrade. The upgrades include numerous compatability enhancements which often times resolves the mysterious file problems. I too had a similar problem when I used to use Win2k and service pack 1 resolved my issues. I've happily moved on to Win XP since then.

As for NTFS, use it where you can! It is much more reliable than the FAT32 based systems.

Randy

Randy - It's not too late to jump in, since I won't be doing anything on my system until next week. :)

Interesting that you should mention Service Pack 3. When I was searching through the Microsoft Knowledge Base (or whatever they call it) for "explorer.exe" - 90% of the problems with explorer.exe had to do with W2K and Service Pack 3. As it turns out, I have Service Pack 2 (and all available updates since then as far as I know - except for Service Pack 3.) After reading all of the trouble with Service Pack 3 and explorer.exe, I was pretty sure I didn't want to upgrade to that service pack - esp. when the "resolution" to some of the problems was to go back to Service Pack 2!

Jeanie

Well, that truly is interesting. My final suggestion was going to involve dumping Norton Systemworks (which it sounds like you are using). When I had my probelms, that was the other fix I tried. Dumped systemworks and went back to simply using Norton Anti-virus. So it was either the service pack upgrade or dumping systemworks that seemed to fix my problem.

Anytime I have tried to use the full systemworks package I have had problems.

Good luck and I hope you find your fix!

Randy

Jeanie,
If you are starting from scratch then maybe the program Notron Ghost might be worth your while looking into. I use it and find it a quick and easy way to restore a good windows partician over a bad one. ( as long as theat partician doesn't have bad sectors - but you can't be that unluckly twice - start sacrificing spiders as well - If everyone just sacrificed one I wouldn't have the **** scared out of me everytime I met one!).
Ghost is a good program but can be very distructive. So long as you know which drive number you want to replace and make sure your partician titles are not simlar then you should be okay. Read the manual - I have wiped data with this once before. If you are starting from scrath then you have the oppertunity to play with the program without loosing any data- thats why I mentioned it here.

Chris H,
I notice you are another brit and that you have mentioned the 'what do you get in the box?' I don't know whether this is the same in the states as it is in England but there are two types of drive you can pick up here.
OEM and Retail they both contain the same drive but the OEM does not come with the leads drivers etc, and is there fore cheaper, than the retail that comes with all the leads etc. The idea is that if you are replacing a drive or building a computer you probably already have all the leads so why pay for more.
Clare

Clare, Understood on OEM, I usually buy from Dabs or Scan and everything I get from them is OEM but was interested to see what comes in a full retail pack. Of course all the disc utils are on the home site anyway. There is some variance with other products such as scanners and what is supplied with them on either side of the pond, if you buy an Epson 2450 in the US you get silverfast which is not supplied over here. I must say I'd rather pay less for OEM than accumulate cables!!


Cheers.

Clare - I've got plenty of spiders in my house that I can use as a sacrifice. ;)

Thanks for the tip on Norton Ghost. I'll look into it.

Randy, when you say "dump" Norton SystemWorks, I know I've heard others say that before, but as far as I know, I don't have anything running constantly except Anti-Virus - and only run Utilities when I notice a problem, then run the diagnostics. Are you saying that the diagnostics can cause more problems? Or is it just the way it is installed that screws up the system - whether the programs are actually running or not?

Jeanie

It's in the install. Systemworks sneaks into all areas of your system and even though you may not actually be running a certain facet of the program, it is running and scanning information for you in the background.

The only way to avoid this is to do a clean install, then install the retail version of Anti-Virus (do not do a custom install from systemworks and only select anti-virus to install).

Even in a custom install, you still get the primary systemworks components installed "just in case" you decide to add additional components or diagnostics at a later time.

Systemworks and Windows have never played nice together in joyous harmony!

Randy

Thanks Randy. That makes sense.
Jeanie

J,

I'll second the Norton Ghost recommendation, it is a definite bacon saver!


Cheers...

So, almost a month after my initial post, I'm back from my travels, installed the new HD and reinstalled W2K. (Even that was a nightmare b/c I tried installing a USB 2.0 card at the same time and after three attempts at installing Windows with the new card installed, finally decided there was a resource conflict somewhere and it just wan't going to work.) Anyway, I got my system back to bare bones working order (internet & e-mail, word processor and Photoshop with scanner and printer) b/c I had a project to get done and figured I'd finish getting the computer back to "normal" after I was done with the project.

Just yesterday, I spent about 9 hours scanning a bunch of photos and doing minimal touch-up on them. Just before I was about to scan the last photo, the same situation as mentioned in the first post in this thread popped up. The directory where I'd been saving all of my photos all day suddenly was causing explorer.exe to crash whenever I accessed it (via Windows Explorer and trying to save a file in Photoshop.)

I logged in as Administrator and can access the directory with no problems from Windows Explorer. But, logging back in as myself, I still am not able to access the directory. I copied the directory to a different disk while logged in as Administrator and can access all of the files just fine.

So, since I JUST did a clean install, I'm going to try Doug's suggestion of reinstalling Windows (over itself). One question about that - will it write over the registry? My Outlook accounts setup are stored there, so I'll back up just to be sure.

I'm getting SOOOOOOO tired of this!! I upgraded to W2K from W98 b/c many people told me it was so stable. (In fact, that was a unanimous sentiment.) But, I've had nothing but trouble ever since upgrading. Wondering if I should just go back to W98! :bawling:

Jeanie

OH Jeanie,

I am so sorry to hear your problems are not fixed - computers can be so unreliable and exasperating.

I have XP and although I am able to log in under a different name and have a seperate profile set up I find it easier to stay as in the administrator mode. I know that it is possiable to duplicate a folder with only administrator rights so that they cannot be accessed by anyone else (this is the case in XP anyway). If possible the solution may be to have your login as the administrator login so that you always have full control of your computer / files etc.

Hope your troubles are sorted out soon
Good Luck
Clare

Thanks for commiserating Clare! ;)

I actually have my user ID set to administrator privileges, so I can do anything when I'm logged in with my user ID that I can as an administrator. I read at least one article that recommends against that, but I figured once I got the system back to "normal", i.e. everything installed, I'd reset the privileges. Right now, I'm glad I've got the additional account, since I can't even open Windows Explorer to look at the root level when I'm logged in with my user ID. It's possible that if I only had an Administrator account, the same thing would happen - and then I'd really be hosed! At least I have a second account where I can access the directories which seem to be causing trouble for my user account and move them to a "safe place".

Jeanie

BACKP!!!!!! I don't mean to yell but i had a similar problem after i installed my epson r300m printer.I am also runnining w2k. to fix the problem i had to refomat the hard drive. after the format i reinstalled the printer and everything seems to be fine know. good luck