I have a client that wanted me to create a studio shot of the Harley V-Rod Motorcycle for their website. The problem was I had not lights, nobackdrop, etc... in short, just the camera and ambient lighting.

I have three images I would like you to view so you can see the problems I faced. After viewing those image and the text that accompanies them you may have a better way to accomplish what I was trying to do.. create a studio shot from think air, so to speak. There also appeared to be some differences in viewing the image on a CRT as opposed to an LCD display. I use CRTs so I did not notice the problems until they were pointed out to me.

You'll find the images at

http://www.robonet.com/robo1/harley/harley.htm

These are rather large images, about 70K each. If you've got broadband access this will be no problem, if you're on a dialup.. go get some coffee and then see if you've got anything to add.

I appreciate and help or suggestions you might have.

Jim

The BEST way would be to have a "backdrop". It is difficult at best to extract an image from a "busy" background, as you have discovered. Try parking it in front of a van (solid colored) or a stucco or other fairly smooth surfaced wall. Have some white sheets in your vehicle, and some people "volunteered" to hold them/it up behind your subject. Barring that, the BEST, but most tedious, way I have found is to zoom in on the image and use the lasso tool (or pen tool) to go around the outside of the subject, then inverse and delete the background. Hope some of this helps. I'm sure you've thought of most of this already.
:wavey:

I guess what I am asking is not what I should have done but what I could do to make what I have to work with better.

I normally would have used a backdrop of solid color but all I had with me was the camera... so.. with only the orignal image to work with... what is the best procedure to use.

Forget about everything that could have or should have been done and consider only the original image as what you have to work with... now, what is the best way to convert that orignal image (with the cluttered background) to something that resembles a studio shot? Did I take the best route or is their another technique (in photoshop) that I am overlooking?

Jim, as Blacknight mentioned, cutting out the background would probably be the best answer.

Here's a tutorial on a similar task (don't look at any of the other tutorials on the site, or you'll be there for days ;)


"creating" a Studio shot - car (http://www.computerarts.co.uk/tutorials/type/tutorial.asp?id=22541)

Thanks... I'll check it out and see if it works on this image.

Jim

I cannot possibly imagine what else you are attempting to achieve under the conditions that you took the photograph. Afterall, it's all about chrome and style. I think you've captured both on the second shot.

Myself, I question if your last attempt is better than the try before. Seems you have more contrast on the chrome than the attempt afterwards. The black background seems to blend too much on the final shot, and the chrome is less pronounced. The second shot seems to be more three dimensional and more inviting.

By the way . . . a beautiful machine :)

True.. second shot looks better on CRT but not on an LCD display.. one of the problems.

I'm just trying to find a technique I can use on future shots. Maybe there is a technique I have not tried or heard of.

I'm fishing for different ideas on how to handle this particular kind of shooting/retouching situation.

Everyone in the Photography forum is suggesting the client hire a photographer to do the shoot.. they are missing the point of my question... but then they are mostly pro and serious amateur phtogrpahers... forest for the trees syndrome.

Jim

Is this what you had in mind?

Presuming a higher res file than the one posted for the best work, but if this is only for web display...

Assigned sRGB, cleaned up JPG hue/chroma artifacts, extended background by 25% at the foot of the image for a planned later step.

About 10 min to etch out 90% of the bike with the pen tool, 10 min with a brush mask for the complex handlebars etc. Cleaned and removed composite layer mask edges then defringed and then reapplied a very subtle edged soft mask again.

Dropped onto a new background, added a motion blur opacity reduced vert. flipped reflection to the backdrop...small colour and luminosity tweaks and a sharpen.

More detail can be supplied if needed on substeps.

If the originals could be shot on a 'matte' or 'key' background for easier extraction it may save some time but no biggy if you love the pen tool and manual masking methods.

Attached with before after view.

Regards,

Stephen Marsh.

I noticed that the top of the seat is black and blends into the new black background and the floor doesn't really need any changes except for clean up of spots, so this is what I did;

duplicated background layer twice

used eyedropper to select tone next to seat, filled background layer with that grey color.

moved to layer one layer up from background; added mask, filled mask with gradient; white from bottom of pipes to bottom of image, black from lowest part of seat to top of image, transition in between.

moved to layer on top, added mask, painted mask with black on backround to show new background.

moved to background layer, added a little noise, then gausian blur to give enough texture to go with existing floor.

Did a quick cloning on a couple of spots and the cement line on the floor.

Also: I was just reading "Photoshop 7 Artistry", on page 326 there is a technique for knocking out backgrounds that is perfect for this, it goes something like this;

Take your photo, then take another photo from exactly the same position and setting without the object that you want to knock-out.

Open both files and create a mask using "calculations" using the Difference blending mode. Difference goes black where the same and white where different. Set source 1 to one image and source 2 to the other image. Experiment with different channels in Source 1 and Source 2 until you find the ones that give you the cleanest mask, then adjust the mask with levels, or screen it with itself to clean it up.

Loads of fun - Roger

Stephen - way cool on the blue and the reflection:cool:

Thanks for the input... nice to see other ways of achieving the desired end result.

Jim

Thanks Roger.

FANTASTIC TIP on the difference mask approach.

I use difference masking for a few things, but being a lowly prepress guy I and not a photographer I did not think of it's application in this case...NICE ONE! I am all for photographic help instead of the person shooting saying 'well just fix it later in Photoshop'.

A tripod and unchanging studio lighting would help - but perhaps not too much finesse would be required on the lighting for producing a difference mask.

With around ten years experience with bezier pen curves I feel very comfortable with them and they can produce very good sweeps and edges, but if this can be avoided with a good mask...

So while I am on difference masking, it might be good to mention the book 'Photoshop Channel CHOPs' and to share this link to a Deneba Canvas tutorial on CHOPs, which is pretty much the same for Photoshop.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bryang/chops/

P.S. I am giving this thread my first ever 'rating' of 5 stars for your tip on difference masking when shooting a 'well behaved' subject (I have not used the rate this thread feature before). <g>

Regards,

Stephen Marsh.

Roger, nice job on fixing the background, and a ton of thanks for that great tip! I can see it being very useful when shooting people (school, club, family, etc.) that are to be masked to be placed elsewhere later...such as on an island vacation, on a Xmas card by a tree, etc. Really has great practical value!

Stephen, WOW! That brilliant blue is exactly what the client wants, I'll bet! And the reflection makes it really special!

Speaking of Deneba Canvas, I have it, use it exclusively for putting together booklets etc. Anyone else use this program? I've been using it since version 3.1 and now have 8.0, and it just gets better and better. Has always had Illustrator beat by a long shot, and the price is really reasonable.

Phyllis

Stephen, WOW! That brilliant blue is exactly what the client wants, I'll bet! And the reflection makes it really special

Thanks Phyllis.

Just hope that the client does not want this to be done in CMYK!!!

As web was mentioned...I decided to go with 'power point blue'. <g> Totally unrealistic for press - but if monitor presentation is the media in question, then you can't beat a pure primary fading to near black.

I use difference masking for isolating healing or cloning when performed on a duped layer over the original and for automated dust spotting and some other things, but as I mentioned I did not think of it when it came to acquiring the original image/s.

I briefly mention difference masking here:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/ST_utilitymasks.html

Regards,

Stephen Marsh.

JIm I am not sure that this is what you want but I rode and if I wanted to accent my bike this is one way of doing it.

I used the grey color of the wall and cloned it to te rest of the picture.

Then i went into render, lighting and used a soft omni. I emphisized the motor and front end and faded the back but kept it visable.
HOpr this is what you are looking for.

If you look at the rear section of the image you'll notice the bike is in pretty heavy shadow in your picture..

I boils down to either masking or extraction (not to mention using the proper lighting and backdorp to begin with) so you can place whatever background you desire in the picture.

Until I get a better handle on the process I am using:

http://www.leewoodharley.com/custom/IMG_8525.jpg

for the client shot... He is pleased though I am not.

Thanks for your effort and input.

Jim

Is this more like what you are looking for. If so then I think I know how you can creeate it. Remember I did not take as much time as you willl on it.

With most photo programs the selection tools are limiited and with a bike the handle bars and brakes and wires can give you fits.

There is a program from extensis that is a mask tool to put your subject into a new background. Its is called mask pro at www.extensis.com

The attached was done with the magnetic selection tool which was hard because of all the cuts, but it came out reasonable well.The problem is to get the subject to blend with the back ground and the blur tool helps.

It cant hurt, give it a try.

This one was done with a simpler method.

Use the existing background and clone it the same color as the walls and clone out all other objects. Feather it down around the tires, the use the selection tool, it shoud outline the bike, I picked a med grey and make a new layer in the layers palette and fill it. Then use the eraser to bring up detail of bike.Flatten this wont cost money.

Jim, In the movies they use a blue or green background because they can superimpose to it. It works with a blue background in still life also. Your lighting is not that bad. it can be adjusted. I think one light set up would do you used on an angle will produce shadows to bring up the different parts of the bike and give it that masculine look. you can use a soft box or umbrella to soften it. Background about 12 foot wide would run about $100 to $200 for muslin, but I think if you shoot on sight and use someting like Mask Pro it might be what you are looking for. I assume you want quick and easy because of what you do. Hope this helped some.

Allways another opinion - and I have one!

Don't go out and buy any lights! The reason this shot worked out so well for you is because of the way the available light set up the shot for you - you may be on to this, but in case not, this is what you did and why it worked for you:

-Your primary light source is the sky or light bouncing off of concrete behind you - effectively a huge softbox - you would have to go to where the subject is, look back at the camera and see the angle that the light is coming from, then decide how far away you would place the light to determine what size your soft box would have to be.

-The lighting form your light source shows (isn't hidden by more light coming from other directions), because of the ceiling above the bike blocking sky from coming in that direction and walls blocking light from the side.

-The bike is far enough in to have detail in the shadows and the light areas (the closer you are to the light source the quicker it gets darker)

If you want to get fancy you add some kicker light (hair light, edge light ... whatever you want to call it) to pull some rim light around from behind (effectivly give it a halo) - You can do this with a food light with a blue bulb in it bounced off of the ceiling or a couple of large pieces of foam core covered with alluminum foil. But I don't think it is really neccessray - they are not hiring a commercial photographer.

If you want the light to come from one side change your angle and turn the bike so that the light is coming over your shoulder instead of from behind you - watch the glow on the chrome though, you don't want to loose it.

I know phptographers that make lots of wonderful images and money just by photographing in their garage with the garage door open - it is wonderful light to die for. Just look for situations that give you this kind of lighting and you will be home free.

A neat trick - in situations where it is difficult to see what the light looks - make a tube with your hand (like a soft fist) and look though the tube so that your subject is all you see. Try it - stand out in the sun - look into the shadows, now look though your home made hand tube - that is the detail (and the lighting) in the spot you are looking that you would see on the photo if you were to expose your photo for that spot. Many of the best photos are found where you don't see them because the brighter light causes your pupils to shut down and darker areas just look dark.

Roger

Roger,

I knew the light would be good under the garage.. they wanted me to shoot the bike out in the open and I told them no.. took a couple of test shots and showed them how bad it would look on the camera's LCD display... nothing but high contrast and blown highlights.. not to mention a dozen mini-suns being reflected from every chrome angle on the bike.. they agreed to let me do what I wanted at that point.

I told them putting it in the shade with indirect light would do the trick but that the background would present a problem..

The entire thrust of this thread was not about shooting the bike as much as it was about removing or editing the background.

I was very pleased with the way the shots came out, especially considering my amatuer status. And yeah, garage light is a wonderful thing.. there are a number of Hollywood Headshot Photographers that shoot almost exclusivly from the garage with nothing more than a couple of reflectors for light distribution and enhancement.

Thanks for the input.

No, I'm not buying lights. I hate using artificial lighting of any kind. I don't even own a Flash... don't like them. What's built into the D30 is the only Xeon I own.

Jim

Jim,

Awesome that you see the light! I hope this will help any who are new to photography and using natural light, it's a wonderful thing. Window light is famous - door light is magical, all you have to do is open ...

Roger

I didn't do anything too remarkable, but here's how I got to my end result.

I masked using a combination of the pen tool and a circular marquee (the latter I just move around the canvas at will to act as a boundary, useful for the bike tyres etc), the reason I chose the pen tool is that it gives a clean, crisp edge and makes it stand out a little more vividly, kinda jumps off the page - really it's a cheap way of making objects look 'hyper-real'.

Made a white 'studio' background and copied the bike layer then flipped it on the vertical axis, then applied a simple layer mask with a black to white gradient. I also gaussian blurred the image by 1px (purely for individual taste). Lowered opacity of layer to around 40%.

Ran a curves adjustment layer and a selective colour adjustment layer (tried to knock some of the blue out of the image). I also used the dodge and burn tools to pump up some areas that had gotten washed out (I tried other methods but lost the tyre tread detailing). Used the clone tool join up some of the reflections in the chrome. By the way did you photograph it with a red t-shirt and blue jeans on?;) - cloned out the photographer that was reflected in the chrome.

The rest was finishing touches mostly, added some more colours to the lights and as a final flourish some 'bling' (light sparkles that are reflecting off the chrome and lights)

I really like Roger Ele's first attempt, thats something special.:)

NIce one, Mike :) Very nice!

Mig

Thanks for the complement Mike, but WOW - your putt-putt perfectly pops! This site sure helps to keep me humble ...