I have been using my digital camera for 6 months and working with a very old paint shop version. I just downloaded a newer version for a tryout - but think I will go with photoshop. Anyway, I am a newbie and I know how to clone but it leaves much to be desired. How do you all get that selected area in another photo without it looking like it has been copied. Mine always has parts of the remaining photo in it. Yes, I can smooth it in but it never looks right. Maybe there is a article I can read if someone can point me in that direction. And, I don't understand Mask and layers. Thanks for any information. Jean

Hi Jean. I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you talking about selecting and copying a person or background from one picture to another and it doesn't blend in right??? Or are you using the clone tool within an area on one picture and it's not working right?

Can you post a picture to show us the problem you are having?

Andrew, I am having trouble with both. I take lots of pictures of shelter animals and put them on Petfinders - I would like to give them a nice looking background instead of the cages they are in - that is my main problem. Here is a picture I would like to replace the background - and I can't get him out looking professional. Thanks for helping.:)
Not too sure how to work this but the first picture is the original and I will post the next (Mess) in another post as I don't know how to upload two pictures at once.

This is the one I used the clone tool on - I am sort of thinking I am way off base. Jean:(

I think what you're looking for can best be found in a mask, and in Photoshop it's really very easy. Here (http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5215&highlight=sarah) is a URL for Sarah's Watercolor tutorial, but it explains mask usage very well. I did the attached pic in about a minute using a mask. Once you do it, you'll wonder why you ever thought it was hard!

Blacknight, That was Great - just what I am looking to do. I am using Paint Shop Pro Ver.3 from the days of yesteryear! I do have to buy a new program so I guess it will be Photoshop - do you think Elements will do it ok or will I need the 7. Thanks so much for your help - The picture looks great.:)

I think Big Al uses PSP. There may be others here who do also. I use Photoshop, and am not familiar with elements. Richard Lynch could no doubt answer the Elements question for you. They are both here, if you look under members, and I'm sure would be happy to assist you.

Jean,

I think the photo you posted looks pretty good as is. Were it me, I would not remove the background. I would just remove the three objects sitting on the carpet. And the reason I would leave the carpet is it's pretty adorable to have a little dog looking at you with that look on his/her face, and the carpet there makes it feel almost real. I'm attaching what I would do.

But I have to ask you something. What will the output be. Will this be printed, photocopied, posted on a web page, something else? The output makes a big difference in what kind of photo you want to prepare.

BTW, I did a quick extraction of the dog from the background, and it's not one of the easier photo operations one can do. I'll attach it to the next message in case you want to play with it. I put it on a bright green background so you can easily select the green with the magic wand tool and remove or replace it.

Andrew

And here it the extracted dog on a green background.

Andrew, nice job with the extraction tool. That is not the easiest filter to use for a beginner, however, so maybe your first suggestion is the better one in this case. I too like the rug.


Jean:

As far as which program to buy, Photoshop is worth the money in the long run because it can do so much.

As far as dogs in cages, I see nothing wrong with picturing them that way... for a web page, I'm guessing. When I see an animal in a cage I am more likely to want to save it and give it a nice home. It makes the animals look like they need a home...and they DO! My sister-in-law runs a shelter also and she posts pics of her animals all the time...sitting in their cages or on the floor or anywhere they happen to be. They get adopted just the same, so I would not worry about "presentation" in this case...really.

Phyllis

Originally posted by Andrew B.
And here it the extracted dog on a green background.
That looks great and I have been trying since Sunday to do this - I have now deleated Paint shop and need to try Elements - Guess I will have to find an elements person to ask - if I can do it or just get the Photoshop$$ - Why don't you do a 101 class on this. How do you extract the darn thing? I know how to get rid of the items in the picture I just wanted to know how to extract. Thanks. :bawling:

Jean:

As far as which program to buy, Photoshop is worth the money in the long run because it can do so much.

As far as dogs in cages, I see nothing wrong with picturing them that way... for a web page, I'm guessing. When I see an animal in a cage I am more likely to want to save it and give it a nice home. It makes the animals look like they need a home...and they DO! My sister-in-law runs a shelter also and she posts pics of her animals all the time...sitting in their cages or on the floor or anywhere they happen to be. They get adopted just the same, so I would not worry about "presentation" in this case...really.

Phyllis [/B][/QUOTE]
Phyllis, Thanks for the tips about the animals - These pets go on Petfinders.org. I Mainly wanted to know how to extract - I can remove items from a picture but I can't extract. What would you do with this picture of a very laid back cat named Romeow! I am just trying to learn so could I take out the background and make him look like he is lounging over something else? Thanks, :blank:

I looked at Sarah's tututorial and am lost - I need Photoshop for that. How did you do that Picture in one minute? Did you use a mask? If you know of a newbie tutorial on extracting like you did , please let me know. And, did you spray paint that background?
Sorry for all the questions - I know I have to start at the begenning but this one function I want to do now if I can. Thanks, Jean:) :bow:

Is this the sort of idea you had?

I used PSP8 beta, and promoted the cat to a layer. Then I removed the background, added another layer behind that one, added a gradient, then added a bit of noise so it would match the rest of the image. I also removed the seam from the shoulder so that it would look like he was draped over a cloth instead.

Tyeise

A link to further links on masking/extraction:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/PSTV_links.html#M


Stephen Marsh.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/

Tyese, That came out perfect and Yes, it is just what I am trying to learn how to do. Thanks so much. - I will try the links Stephen left for learning.

:)

Stephen, The links are what I am looking for and will let you all know when I can do this on my own. Thanks to all for their kind replies and patience.:)

Glad I could be of help, Jean. PSP 8 has a new background eraser. It takes a little practice getting just the right settings, but I used that for the majority, and then cleaned up the rest with the regular eraser.

Tyeise

Originally posted by Jeanmilden1
How do you extract the darn thing? I know how to get rid of the items in the picture I just wanted to know how to extract. Thanks.

Hi Jean. I posted the dog with green background so you could use whichever program you have to delete the green, then you could put any background behind there you want, and see if you really think it's better than carpet. But it looks like you decided to go the extraction route so here are some initial tips.

1. Doing a good extraction is not based on using an Adobe product. Even with Photoshop is can be very difficult to extract hair, and impossible to do a good job if you don't have some practice at it.

2. If one wants all the tools at hand needed for extractions, Elements doesn't hack it. The software must have direct access to channels to do this, and that's not Elements.

3. One of the most important things to know before trying extractions is the nature of pixels where your object meets the background. For example, if you have someone wearing a tan hat with a blue sky behind, the pixels at the extraction point will each be a mixture of blue and tan. And when the background is removed, there will be a bluish fringe around the hat that will stand out against a different background. This can be dealt with, but it can be confusing to see for the first time.


I went out on the web and found a few tutorials that cover different ways to extract. The reason I am not writing up a method myself is one method does not work on all pictures, and these links should give you a good overview and some good practice. If you run into problems with the tutorials, feel free to ask for help.

Tutorials

Here is an article about tools and techniques for removing backgrounds. The one that covers Photoshop techniques is probably the best one to read. Much of it can be done with other software too.

http://graphicssoft.about.com/library/weekly/aa000607a.htm

I picked this next one because it seemed like a good overview of masking in channels. I also like the way it shows the final messy result that sometimes happens, and explains how to clean it up. Although, I think there are easier ways to clean it, and so I guess no tutorial is perfect.

http://dancingbones.org/xena/tips/techniques/masking.html

Anyway, this should get you off to a good start.

Andrew,
Really appreciate your advice and Glad you told me about Elements because someone else said It could do about 90% of what Photoshop 7 would do - with his book.
As far as the Rug goes - I just picked a picture and really wasn't particular what was in it. However, you did a great job - I printed it out and it looks beautiful (I printed the one you sent me with the taupe background). I take lots of pictures of animals and like the one I am attaching I think the cat is pretty but don't like the bars behind. Some of these pictures go on our local access tv channel - they really don't care about the bars but , my objective was to learn how to remove the background or extract the main object. Thanks for the Tutorials. Tyeise did a great job with the laid back Cat. This little guy I am attaching is falling asleep . Right now I am using my old paint shop ver 3 - deleated Paint ShopPro and tried to download Elements - but don't have enough room - So now I need a computer plus photoshop 7 - Maybe I can make a deal - new computer if they lanyappe photoshop!lol
I don't have a tool for removing that green background - by the way - all the fur on my little doggie came out perfect so you did a great job. Have a Great Weekend - :rambo:

>>Glad you told me about Elements because someone else said It could do about 90% of what Photoshop 7 would do - with his book.<<

Ah, that's right. Richard Lynch found ways to add features to Elements. I'll have to ask him what kind of interface he can put on Elements channels. Maybe it will be enough. I'll check.

>>I printed it out and it looks beautiful (I printed the one you sent me with the taupe background).<<

I think someone else did the taupe one. I posted a green one and a rug one.

>>I don't have a tool for removing that green background - by the way<<

Turns out I made a big mistake. With that green background and nothing else green in the picture, I assumed it would be easy to select and remove. I just tried and it is not. The green merged so well with the partially transparent fur pixels that its fringing with simple extractions. If you still need one with a transparent background, I still have the original extraction I made.

Anyway, good luck with the tutorials.

...Andrew

If you're used to PSP, why don't you download the trial version of their newest version? You'd be amazed at what you see - I doubt you'd think its the same program. They have really added so much to it!

If you download the beta version of 8, it's still a little buggy, and not everything works perfectly yet. But it would give you an idea of all the wonderful tools it has.

Tyeise

Andrew, Thanks for checking with Richard about elements. And, Danny Raphael is the one who sent me the cat with the taupe background - so did blacknight - Geeeee so many nice folks trying to help I can't remember all their names.



(( With that green background and nothing else green in the picture, I assumed it would be easy to select and remove. )) - By selecting I am assuming you mean like a lasso tool tracing and then copying to a new color background? Have the feeling that is not what you mean. I am attaching a picture of the cat with the bars and this is about what I can do - sorry to have to post this
:( But this shows about what I can do. - I will read all the information - everyone sent

Originally posted by tyeise
If you're used to PSP, why don't you download the trial version of their newest version? You'd be amazed at what you see - I doubt you'd think its the same program. They have really added so much to it!

If you download the beta version of 8, it's still a little buggy, and not everything works perfectly yet. But it would give you an idea of all the wonderful tools it has.

Tyeise --
Tyeise, I have Ver 3 of Paint Shop from 1992 - and it is sooo very different that I decided to go with Photoshop since there is more written information for I can access. I would have to start all over again anyway with the new Version of PSP.
Jean - I have Your Rendention of the Cat on my board and sent it to the shelter workers and they were amazed at what you can do. - Well, Don't know how long it will take me to get there - it would be much easier to go to a class. Have a Great Weekend:)

Hi all, I've had to give up on PhotoShop 6 since I've moved to OSX and PS6 won't run under OSX except in "Classic" mode and that causes me big problems.

I downloaded PS Elements 2 this morning and am seeing if it will work for me. So far it's done everything I wanted, but I hadn't noticed that there is no direct access to channels (I rarely used them anyway) but when I found that there was no "layer mask" I became a bit concerned - I used layer masks all the time.

This doggie picture got me thinking, so I tried to see if I could "fake" a layer mask and it turns out it's very simple.

I won't bore you with the details, but if anyone wants to know, just ask.

Here's my effort with this little doggie. I'm not that thrilled with the background - it always seems to me that he's levitating but I managed to extract him from the original background and that's what I was trying to do :)

Take care, Margaret

Here's your kitty without the bars, using the clone tool. :-)

Tyeise

I couldn't resist trying with the kitten too. Jean, you were almost there - it's not hard, just takes a bit of practice.

Take care, Margaret

I guess I should have attached the image :D

M

Jean,

>>(( With that green background and nothing else green in the picture, I assumed it would be easy to select and remove. )) - By selecting I am assuming you mean like a lasso tool tracing and then copying to a new color background? Have the feeling that is not what you mean.<<

Well, the one I had in mind was Magic Wand. I thought you would just be able to click anywhere on the green and it would select everything green. Didn't work.

>>I am attaching a picture of the cat with the bars and this is about what I can do

Were it me, I would not extract this. I'd do the same thing Tyeise did and use the clone tool to copy adjacent parts of the picture over the bars. This is probably the most natural look without bars.

Andrew

Jean,

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but you might want to check out this challenge (http://www.retouchpro.com/challenge/manipulation/challenge16/index.html) from a while back. I submitted a picture of my two cats that I wanted to extract from the background and there were quite a few submissions with different ways of doing it - along with explanations of course. You might want to find a few submissions that you particularly like and see how they were done.

Hope this helps a bit.

Jeanie

Winwintoo:- You may email me privately if you would like to tell me how you did the dog. I am glad you were able to use Elements as that is the program I wanted because of the lesser cost and my being a newbie. Andrew has been helping me a lot on that. How do you fake a layer? The dog and cat came out really good I should have posted a different pose as now I have so many professional looking phtos of the same doggie pose. However, really is good learning experience to see what can be done with one picture. I liked your shawdows in the background of both pictures. Did you use the clone tool on the cat as Tyeise did? And How did you create the background. Thanks for your help. :)

Originally posted by tyeise
Here's your kitty without the bars, using the clone tool. :-)

Tyeise
Tyeise, So you just cloned him and put him on a dark background ?
:(

Hi Jean. I forgot to mention that I started asking about Elements Channels. And it looks like there is a way to do this, but I'm asking more questions.

I don't know how to add a link to the message, so here is the path so you can follow along:

RetouchPRO Forums > Tools > Education > "The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements" > New Hidden Power > Elements and Channels

Jean,

No, I didn't clone the cat, and put him on a dark background. I made my clone brush smaller than the bars, and cloned the dark part of the background over the bars.

Tyeise

Originally posted by tyeise
Jean,

No, I didn't clone the cat, and put him on a dark background. I made my clone brush smaller than the bars, and cloned the dark part of the background over the bars.

Tyeise
Tyeise, I will try that - I don't think I can make my clone brush smaller - ver 3 - But I will try and post with what I come up with.

Originally posted by Andrew B.
Hi Jean. I forgot to mention that I started asking about Elements Channels. And it looks like there is a way to do this, but I'm asking more questions.

I don't know how to add a link to the message, so here is the path so you can follow along:

RetouchPRO Forums > Tools > Education > "The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements" > New Hidden Power > Elements and Channels
Andrew, Thanks - I have been sitting at this computer all day and have not been able to achieve the extracting, etc. - I need the new program. Here is my little dog - and you don't have to do anything to him - just showing him off.
Jean

I can make my clone brush anywhere from 1 to 500 pixels in size. I can also vary the hardness (how sharp the outline is) as well as the opacity (how much of the background I add all at once. You also can have a choice of aligned or not aligned, as well as blend mode. I usually use normal blend mode and aligned, but for your cat, I thought about using not aligned.

If you need more info, don't be afraid to ask. :-)

Tyeise

Hi Jean, I'm going to post the instructions here because I find it distracting to read posts that refer to other discussions that take place in private rather than right here in the forum.

I'm guessing you're not the only one who might benefit from this so here goes:

Earlier your mentioned that you were confused about layers and masks. Layers first.

Layers are like transparent sheets of glass or plastic one on top of another. As long as there is no paint on the glass, you can see through it to the layer(s) below it. When you pour paint on the layer you can no longer see through it. Just like pouring paint on a sheet of glass would make it opaque.

Now imagine two layers of glass. One has the picture of your dog on it. The one on top of it has solid blue paint on it. You always look down on the layers so when you look down all you see is blue. Now if you took your fingernail or the edge of a credit card and scraped off some of the blue paint, you could see the dog again where the paint was scraped off. If you had nothing better to do, you could carefully scrape away the blue paint so you could see all of the dog, but none of the clutter or the carpet the dog is sitting on. If you slipped and scraped too much paint off, you could take a small brush and put some blue paint back.

What's a layer mask?? Well I couldn't figure it out either and in Photoshop, I still don't understand why or how they settled on the implementation they did. PSE has a MUCH EASIER WAY to accomplish the same thing.

There is probably some exotic explanation for layer masks, but what I use them for and I suspect what you will be using them for is simply to make a selection of part of an image. After the divorce, get rid of the groom and keep the bride in all the wedding pictures - that sort of thing :D :D

Now I'll try to explain in terms of your dog picture. What you want to do is keep the dog and get rid of all the rest. You already tried by using some sort of selection tool. Someone here suggested using the eraser to erase the part you don't want. That's one way, but there is the danger of the eraser slipping and recovering from an eraser slip is difficult.

Here's what I do. First, I made a copy of the original image (never work on the original) Now I took the lasso selection tool and selected loosely around the dog and saved the selection - call the selection "dog".

Now you've got the original on one layer, and on top of that another layer with a copy of the original. Now make a new empty layer and fill it with a color of your choice - the more contrast to the dog the better (I used bright blue)

Now with the blue layer selected, load the dog selection and then hit delete. Now you've got the blue layer with a hole in it so you can see the dog showing through. The problem at this point is that the original selection was not close enough to the edges of the dog and it looks messy - right? ;) ;)

Now pick a small paint brush and with blue paint on the blue layer, start painting around the edges of the dog. If you slop paint onto the dog, take the eraser and remove it.

When you're satisfied that you are as close to the edges of the dog as you can get, hold down the Ctrl key and click on the blue channel in the layer palet. You should have marching ants around the hole in the blue paint.

Save the selection again and call it "better dog". Click on the "eye" on the blue layer so you can'd see the blue any more.

Now click on the middle layer - the one with the copy of the dog picture - so that it is active. You should have the marching ants still there, but if you lost them, go Select, load selection and pick the selection called "better dog".

Do Ctrl + C and then Ctrl+V to copy the dog to a new layer. Click the "eye's off on all the other layers and you should see just the dog on a layer by itself.

You just faked a layer mask!

You could get rid of the blue layer now but I keep it around for a while just in case I need it again.

Now you can make a new empty layer and drag it below the layer with just the dog on it.This new layer will be the background. You can fill it any way you wan to - I can't remember what all I did, but I'll see if I can reproduce it and let you know.

Hope this helps, Margaret

Originally posted by jeaniesa
Jean,

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but you might want to check out this challenge (http://www.retouchpro.com/challenge/manipulation/challenge16/index.html) from a while back. I submitted a picture of my two cats that I wanted to extract from the background and there were quite a few submissions with different ways of doing it - along with explanations of course. You might want to find a few submissions that you particularly like and see how they were done.

Hope this helps a bit.

Jeanie
Jeanie, I will try this tomorrow - thanks so much - I need all the help everyone is giving me.

Hi Winwintoo,

You said: "Someone here suggested using the eraser to erase the part you don't want. That's one way, but there is the danger of the eraser slipping and recovering from an eraser slip is difficult."

I don't know what program you are using. In PSP with the eraser tool you use the left click on the mouse while you are erasing. If you slip and take out a bit too much, you just right click and put back what you erased and try again. :-)

Tyeise

Andrew, Tyeise, winwintoo, Jeanie, Danny and all who have helped - I have a lot to learn but here is my cat - Tyeise - you were right I did have controls on the paint brush (duh)- Just didn't know I had to double click it. You guys are so experienced that I think you take small things like that for granted.
Still want to know how winwintoo did it but that will have to be tomorrow. Will print out your instructions and give it a go. I think I have been sitting here till 8 a. m. - I would and will try to send a cute joke that just came to me but it might be too long for the Chuckels of the Day - not really long but has an attachment.but will try it.:oldman: Think I have grown a little older since this morning. But have had fun!

Hi All, Just my first watercolor - crude but I sort of wanted it that way. This is my shih tzu that you guys have been working on - that is not a cigarette just the last of his little bone. - I think I did that when I download the tryout ver of paintshop pro - He looks like he should be hanging out by a lamp post on Bourbon Street - I am from New Orleans. You guys have a Great Sunday.:hairbow:

Originally posted by jeaniesa
Jean,

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but you might want to check out [
Hope this helps a bit.

Jeanie
:cat: Just looked at your beautiful Cats -I have so many pictures of cats I don't know why I didn't pick better ones to post but I got a lot out of this experience. Your Cat Challenge was interesting and Shirley was my first pick, then Jim Caffrey, Ron Lemire Gerry Monaghan (Unique to say the least!) David Kendel (a mention) - I judged by the fur especially looking at the cat on the right his puffy left cheek really must have been a challenge because only these few got it perfect. Well, Andrew told me fur was a hard project and now I know. But , if you look up further on this thread you will see Blacknight posted a picture of my dog and said it took him one minute! --- (How?) I am just noticing you are a moderator. If I posted this note to you as Reply to Post would you be notified? I am not sure how this works. Point me to the rules - I get so lost I have to bookmark everyplace I go or else I would never find it again. I also want to post that cute movie clip to Chuckels of the Day - It is 1.39 MB - with dos ext of mpg. Will they let me do that? You Guys are Great! Can't believe all the help in here. -
Jean:rainbow:

>>You guys are so experienced that I think you take small things like that for granted.

Learning how to do backgrounds as your first photo-editing project is sort of like learning to swim in white water rapids. It's not easy to learn the advanced without the basics. On the other hand, you seem to have the tenacity to do it this way.

Anyway, I think your bar removal is very good. One thing that distracts me are some light-colored hairs along the top that could be darkened a little. No big deal in terms of your technique, but it makes for a rougher feel, which makes the cat look a touch less healthy.

The only other thing I would suggest is to look at the version with the bars and the one without the bars. Ignore your thoughts about which background looks better, and instead feel which version tugs at you more to adopt the cat. In this case, I'm not saying one is better than the other; it is just a step I would do with every pet-adoption picture.

But , if you look up further on this thread you will see Blacknight posted a picture of my dog and said it took him one minute! --- (How?)

It looks to me like he used a soft-edged brush and went quickly around the dog. If you look closely, he doesn't really have any detailed fur at the edges, just a nice soft look. I assume he copied the dog to a new layer - then I can't tell if he just blurred the heck out of the background already there (the rug) or created a new background based on the original color of the rug. He also added some texture to the background that complements the dog's fur nicely. The trick to the simplicity of what he did is that he used a similar color for the new background. Trying to do that and move the dog onto a background of contrasting color might not have worked as well. Anyway, that's why that particular photo was able to be finished so quickly.

Also, it sounds as though you are just starting out. For those of us who can do things a little faster, it's mostly because we've been practicing for a bit longer than you have. We all started where you are though, so don't get discouraged. You will get faster!

I am just noticing you are a moderator. If I posted this note to you as Reply to Post would you be notified? I am not sure how this works.

If I have posted to a thread, then I get e-mail notifications for subsequent new posts to the same thread. If I don't post to a thread, then I will pick up new posts when I click on the "New Posts" menu item. This is the same behavior for all members - I don't get any special notification as a moderator.

Point me to the rules - I get so lost I have to bookmark everyplace I go or else I would never find it again.

Rules for what? How to get around the site? What you're allowed to post and what you're not? You might want to read the FAQ (http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/misc.php?s=&action=faq). The sitemap (http://www.retouchpro.com/rpsite/index.htm) may be helpful to you as well. If you need more info than that, let me know what's got you confused.

I also want to post that cute movie clip to Chuckels of the Day - It is 1.39 MB - with dos ext of mpg. Will they let me do that?

Unfortunately, there's a 100KB limit for attachments to posts in the forums. (200KB in the gallery.) So, you won't be able to post it directly. You could put it on a website somewhere and post a link to it however.

Hope this helps,
Jeanie

Jean

((Learning how to do backgrounds as your first photo-editing project is sort of like learning to swim in white water rapids. )) -

Andrew:_ No one told me that , AND I THINK I JUST DROWNED TODAY!

Started out with Margaret's notes and realized I have no layer function on Paint Shp 3. Tried to Mask and that didn't work. So I started with a selection and copied it - made a duplicate of the original and covered it with a color and them pasted the selection . By the time I got half way thru my white dog had turned pink from I don't know what. So, I had to copy the original dog onto the pink dog . Now, you realize I am going back and forth between the orginal photo and the new one - I started getting dizzy! then started working on a spray paint background. Well, my spray can does not spray - just round blobs . So I fiddled with every tool until I sort of was satisfied - - Here I am at 3:00 a.m. - think I forgot to eat lunch and dinner. I did a sort of a look a like (extraction) - but won't post it - for taking me this long I should have a master -piece! I will do it - just need a little more time and Elements. And, that's coming soon.

Re:- No Bars Cat:- ((One thing that distracts me are some light-colored hairs along the top that could be darkened a little. )) I did that trying to brighten him up - guess it just made him look green along the edge - Should have just lighten him a bit.

((The only other thing I would suggest is to look at the version with the bars and the one without the bars. )) I know what you mean but I was just looking for a project - He was adopted bars and all! Thanks, and Good Night:hairbow:

Jean,

>>Started out with Margaret's notes and realized I have no layer function on Paint Shp 3.

I didn't see Margaret's notes, but layers help a lot. One method is to put the background on a layer under the foreground, and paint black onto a layer mask of the upper layer. As you are painting you don't see black going onto the picture. What you see is the background showing through where you paint. And if you make a mistake, you paint with white and the foreground comes back. Of course, it is not easy to perfectly paint into the area where you went your background to meet your foreground. That is where selection techniques come into play, and there are several method, each with its own advantage. But once it's selected it's easier to paint in there. And then fix the edge.

>>for taking me this long I should have a master -piece!

Nah. You're still getting used to the tools and seeing how they work.

BTW, I love the picture or your dog. And that carpet looks gorgeous, what I can see of it.

Hi - I finally made a halfway decent extraction - Some of the fur looks good and other parts not so but at least it is not pink like the one from Sunday. Thanks to all - Can't wait to get Elements. You can give feedback - anything will be appreciated. Tyeise - I just wanted to tell you that cat (orange Tabby) named Romeo really looks Great - Do you think I would be able to do that with Elements? -
:) :) ---Andrew - I copied the links you sent - haven't had the time to look at them yet.

Hello Jean,

Originally posted by Jeanmilden1
Tyeise - I just wanted to tell you that cat (orange Tabby) named Romeo really looks Great - Do you think I would be able to do that with Elements? -

I'm afraid I can't help you much with this question, as I haven't used Elements.

I will say that I couldn't have done it without PSP's new background eraser tool. Otherwise I would have lost all those little pieces of fur and whiskers sticking out.

Tyeise

one of the best tips I've ever learnt was from this thread http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4086&highlight=smudge
it's great to make the hair on animals and people look more natural byt extending them and giving that "fluffy look"

Hi Jean.

>>I finally made a halfway decent extraction - Some of the fur looks good and other parts not so but at least it is not pink like the one from Sunday. <<

Looks like you are getting there in leaps and bounds. There are some things I could pick on, but it looks like you see them too. Still pretty good.

BTW, I also see problems in my own dog on green extraction, and I have more experience. But it will serve as a reminder to me about what I overlooked.

Post extraction (via any method) - the use of the clone stamp tool in Color blend mode or a layer in Color blend mode is good for touching up the edge in some cases. As you do not have to worry about messing up detail, one can be pretty rough n ready with the clone work taking colour from inside the image. This is very handy when objects take on edge reflections of their surrounds, which then look weird when the object is taken out of the background.

Then there is the defringe command, which is more for manual masking than the Extract tool (which uses it's own built in edge method).

More on the subject of masking/extraction:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/PSTV_links.html#M


Stephen Marsh.

Sandra, Andrew and Stephen, Thanks for all the links. Sandra, I read about the Smudge - but don't have it hope it comes with elements. Stephen, The last link you sent has everything anyone could ever want about extraction - So, looks like I will be reading for the next couple of weeks. Had to grin to myself after I pulled up Stephen's link - as if he was quietly saying - "Here it is girl - all you could want to know about cloning - so stop your boohooing"! - sooo much in there it is hard to know what to pick. After reading some of this it is like you all are talking a second language. - How long have you guys been doing this? -- I have looked at all your creations on the different forums and am honored to have your help. Andrew thanks for your comments on my Dog Ext. This was the original picture - he just got back from the groomer and hates bows so he pushed his head against the sofa till it landed on the side of his face. The only tool I used was the lasso to pick the selection - then copy and put a new image with the same color background and then Edit and paste. :)
P.S. is there a spell check on here?

Hi everyone, Just wanted to let Andrew, Stephen, Tyeise, Sandra ,
Jeanie, Blacknight, pstewart and Winwinto (spel?) that I have been practicing and all your help was invaluable. I can now do some of the methods we talked about in the beginning. I will post a couple -- not like you guys but I am coming along.
Jean:)

This is a picture of my dog I posted earlier. I cannot take credit for the hat as Phyllis did that - but I did extract and fix fur and new background.:)

Nice work, Jean! Looks like you are really getting the hang of it!

Tyeise