This question is directed to Richard Lynch and also anyone else that may have possible solutions.
First, I want to thank Richard for going above and beyond the call of duty to assist element users. I have ordered your book but not yet received it.
My issue is, I ordered 'Intellihance' from the Fred Miranda site but have not been able to utilize the action. I went back to his site AFTER I had ordered the program and read the Miranda actions do not work in Elements.
I am wondering if there is a known bypass method to get this (and other) photoshop actions to work in Elements? I use PSE2.
Again, Thanks for more than just trying to sell a good book!

John/tjsgarden

Hi John:

Until Richard logs in for a specific reply, I'll toss in my .02.

Generally speaking if an action is incompatible in Elements, it's because it attempts to do something that Elements does not permit, for example, delete a channel or invoke a Curves adjustment layer.

In some cases the workaround is to write an action (or modify the original) in order to achieve the same (or nearly the same) results as the original action would get under Photoshop. I've seen Richard (and others with PS action writing and PS-to-Elements-action-conversion experience) do this.

I'd say there's a high probability of success. It's just going to depend on the action.

~DannyR~

Danny - you'd actually be surprised what actions will play in Elements using Richard's action player without change. Curves aren't a problem; layer masks, all sort of other stuff that Elements doen't have on the surface are actually lurking there and can be called into play by an action. (there have been a couple that I've tried that have reallly surprised me!) However widespread channel manipulation does give Elements problems and requires rewrites, as do stops without continue, fades and such-like. There's usually a way to do most things in Elements with a bit of perserverance and lateral thinking.
I've done simple rewrites on other actions, but the fact that the action has to be ordered suggests that it is a commercial product for sale - in this case I definitely wouldn't attempt any rewrite without permission from the original copyright holder - good practice for any action, commercial or not. (And if it were complicated I'd leave it up to Richard anyway, who is the expert!)

Susan S.

John,

I think if you poke at Mr. Miranda with an email, he'll come up with a solution. I offered to do the stuff for him, but he wanted to do it himself. I've been waiting for his samples...he seems interrested but I think because people ask me rather than him, he doesn't hear how many people would enjoy using his stuff. Tell him you already bought them!

Have you tried using the actions interface and just renaming the file? You can get the interface here: http://hiddenelements.com

I want to agree with Susan AND Danny -- there are a lot of actions that will just work without adjustment, and some just need a name change. Better actions will usually be adjusted for Elements to take care of things that might make the actions easier to use. My goal these days is to make the actions not just work in Elements, but work in different language versions -- which is a problem in some cases because of how Adobe handled naming conventions.

I have yet to find an action that I can't adjust to work with Elements -- if that helps. If Fred gives the OK to alter stuff, I'd be glad to have a look.

I'm hoping we'll have Fred and a few other people making actions for Elements soon!

Susan:

Very good feedback. I was aware that there are Elements' workarounds for Curves and Layer masks.

It wasn't clear to me that an action under Elements can directly execute Image > Adjustments > Curves or Layers > Add Layer Mask > Hide commands. Is this true?

BTW: Besides STOPS (w/o continue) and channel ops, if you have a list of other commands that Elements can't handle (directly), I'd like a look.

I've heard Elements doesn't do Select > Color Range and Image > Adjust > Channel Mixer. Truth or fiction?

Thanks for adding substance to this discussion.

~Danny~

Richard would be the expert on this, but as I understand it you can add both curves and channel mixer *adjustment layers* using actions in Elements (which comes with a layer mask!) - but it doesn't seem to recognise the command Image>adjust>curves (or channel mixer) (for me at least - but I only tried quickly just now- I usually use adjustment layers as a matter of principle). As far as I know the select>colour range command used in an Action does not function in Elements. At least, I've not managed to get it to work!

Susan S.

The problem with some commands is that they do not appear in the same place in Elements. If you are executing a command via menu selection, then those commands which cannot be found in that path will fail. There are other ways to access the commands -- sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't. That is to say if they work, they work all the time, but you sometimes have to find the key.

As for Channel Mixing and Layer Masks, these both come with the free tools I've made available on http://hiddenelements.com . So while these are not incorporated in the same way that you may normally do it in Photoshop, obviously it is possible to access them.

I have not made a listing that I think is ready for distribution, and I'd be more interested to know that there is interest before I go and do so. Please contact me off list (rl@ps6.com), and I'll try and get you what i have.

PS - Color Range can be handled using Hidden Power and Saturation Masking or Blend Mask. if you tell me a specific instance you are trying to use color Range with, I'd be glad to give you a solution.

Richard or Susan S.,

I've tried to get a few actions from the Adobe site to work, but I just get a "page not found" error in the window. I know I'm missing something big, but can't figure it out. I've tried renaming, putting into folders, putting into folders instead of the Bud Guin material, tried holding my breath and turning blue. Still, can't get anything to work. What steps do I need to take to get the actions to be seen in PE2? I'd really appreciate the help.

Rick

Have you read the readme files that come with the package that explain how to make other actions work?

If you have done that, it would seem you are not putting the actions in the right folders. The page not found error...when does that appear -- in the tabs when you click one?

Please review the advanced.rtf file, and other readmes and see if your answer is there. let me know and maybe we can hash out the problem here. It may be a good exercise for others who may be having trouble.

Richard,

The actions I'm discussing are from the Adobe Studio Exchange, Photoshop section, and have no readme files. I have not had a bit of problems with those you made available, or even those from the Shipley site. The exception to that is that the ones from the Shipley site are not as durable - I typically get a program complaint that the "Make function is not available" whenever I try to use more than one at a time. I had thought I could get the Photoshop Actions to work through your installer, which is why I asked the question. I apologize if I've become confused.

Rick

The read me file Richard is referring to is called advanced.rtf and came in the zip files with the HPA2 action player. You need to put the action itself in the presets/photoshop actions folder, and then create an html file using the instructions that Richard provides to allow the action to be called (you don't need to write html, just put the file and action names into the blanks in the template - the fun bit is finding the action name!)Some actions will work - some will need to be modified - it may be as little as removing capital letters from the action name (requires temproary access to photoshop or a photoshop demo). Which ones are you interested in?
Susan S.

Richard, Susan and Danny,

Thanks so much for your input and advise.
The first thing I want to say is I got Richards book in the mail yesterday.:) I read a couple chapters and installed the actions on the CD. WOW! I now have fully operational capacity that is worth big bucks in other programs.
The book is excellent. So far, the explainations are very clear and help me understand why adjustment tools are benificial, how they work and how to use them. This is the first $40.00 book ($28.00 at amazon.com) that is beyond a doubt much more valuable than its price. In addition, Richard seems to be genuinely interested in helping other Elements users have the capacity found in the 'big brother' program.
I sent an email to Fred Miranda but have not heard a reply from him. I will try renaming his file and see if it will work as is in the recipe section.
I also appriciate (alphebetically) Danny and Susan for their replies. So many people really take the time to reply.:)
I'll post again to update my progress.
John/tjsgarden

Susan,

Thank you for showing your expertise here. I'm glad you are around to help some people out!

I can tell you there are some fabulous learning actions on the Adobe Studio Exchange -- even if you don't appreciate the results. I tried to get in touch with a number of the people that put together some of the planet actions, but failed with every one I tried to contact. I'd love to get some of those converted for Elements -- if I could only find the authors.

Rick, if you can get in touch with the people that wrote the actions you want converted, I'd be glad to help out. It seems Susan would help you as well. Any action sets we get converted I can make available for download for everyone from http://hiddenelements.com .

Let us know.

Susan,
Thanks for the help. Richard's actions worked so well that I have not even looked for an rtf or readme flie.

Richard,
I have four actions that looked interesting that I'll try to get working this week. Time is a problem; grandkids are coming over today [my son's in the service overseas], then I go on night shift tonight (the company frowns on my working with PSE during working hours, for strange reasons of their own: they've no sense of priorities).

I'll try to contact the action developers, as well.

Thanks again to both of you.

Rick

Please forgive the second post.

Susan,
I was trying to get "natalie_sketch" and "Realsketch" to work, as well as one called "Coming Out of the Shadows". These seem to be very popular and I thought I might use them on some photos I can never make come out "right". I recently tried converting some similar "can't get right" photos to B&W and met with some success.

Rick

There's no doubt in my mind that the functionality of Elements can be extanded with by HPE2 [thx for the abbreviation, Susan] and in many cases workarounds can be crafted to achieve results similar to (or exactly) as produced by Photoshop. The ability to now run actions under Elements (modified or not) is a HUGE breakthrough.

One of Richard's previous posts caused a BIG lightbulb to come on for me: Though PE and PS have some common functionality, menu differences between products can cause problems action-wise. That part I get. (Out of curiousity, what are the functions and what are the workarounds?)

Here's where it's still foggy for me. Bud Guinn, who's converted a few actions to run under PE alerted me to the Select > Color Range incompatibility and his workaround, utilize the Magic Wand tool. So I'm thinking that some commands are flat out incompatible and for many, there are other command combinations that can be used.

Questions:

1. Assuming the HPE2 enhancements have been installed in ones PE environment, will actions that include commands like Channel Mixer, Curves (or their adjustment layer equivalents), Select > Color Range, Add Layer Mask, etc. run without further modification under PE or not?

2. Same question assuming HPE2 enhancements have NOT been applied.

Why do I care?

I'm in the process of writing a comprehensive actions tutorial and have a yet to be populated section on writing actions for PE. I'd like it to include concrete statements regarding action compatibility between PS and PE -- or [hint-hint, Richard :) ] a link to a site that addresses the specific differences and, better yet, alternative commands. [Richard, Susan: Would you like to review this section before it's published?]

If these differences and workarounds could be published, it would enable action makers to craft Elements' compatible actions going forward and and start moving away from action conversion.

Good thread gang... Let's keep up the positive and informative comments.
~Danny~

Danny,

I'd very much like to review that.

Curves and some other features can be implemented in a variety of different ways. The first thing I would do is try something AS IS. If it works, no need to modify. If it does't work, there is more than one way to get it to (the beauty of Photoshop). For example, I give a pretty strong hint in my book as to how to implement curves even if there are none -- that is, not using curves at all!

I don't think the magic wand is the best solution to color range. My book also discusses a solution to this which you can implement using Hue/Saturation. I can help you with that.

So:

1) it may not depend on if the enhancements are installed to get these to run. I can help out with that.

2) same answer.

3) (oh, you didn't ask this one) There are work-arounds for everything if you take the time to make them. Something like implementing Hue/Saturation may take a lot of understanding that not all users have ever had the need to indulge. If you have specific problems with an action, I'd be very glad to help you convert it, but I'd need to see what you are trying to accomplish. Things sometimes require a clever solution and may not be obvious.

OK?

Danny - I'l be happy to look at anything that you come up with - but I'm probably not going to be able to add much that Richard won't already be able to say!

In my very limited experience of converting actions, the stuff of the sort that is included in HPE2 that is lurking in Elements but just needs to be accessed (Curves adjustment layers, layer masks, channel mixer and a few others that I can't remember) will work if called in an action (in the right way) whether or not HPE2 is installed. Select>colour range is just plain missing and needs a workaround. As does the Histrory brush, fade commands, all sorts of other stuff. I can come up with simple workarounds - but often without the full version of PS to play on I have to give up (I'm just using the PS6demo as an action and style editor and it is a bit limited - as am I, action writing-wise!)

Susan S

Susan S.,
I downloaded PS7 yesterday and installed it on my machine after I got home this morning, so I should be able to change the action names if I need to do that. PS7 demo is full function for 30 days, so I have a little time to try out/modify the actions I would like to have. I'll have time Thursday morning to start getting the actions into PSE2 format. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the help.

Rick