Hi Everyone!

I am wondering if anyone is up on the best way to do the kind of collage I am attaching?

I know this kind of project can be done fairly easily in Quark Express with picture boxes and preset columns but it seems that Quark only lets you make documents up to around 8.5x11 and how do you get it to be a psd file?...

I recently did a similar collage by using lots and lots of ruler guides for the size of each picture and also for the white borders and then resized and re-cropped lots and lots of times..But is there a better, much less time consuming way???

Diane

I spent a weekend at a friend's farm in Kansas last week, took some photos, and gave him the attached collage as a thank you gift.

I'm not saying this is a good example of a collage, but I'll share my experiences.

It was done in PhotoShop, using a grid and guides for alignment. Each photo was on its own layer with layer masks to crop the images so that I could resize or change the cropping later.

First, I sized all photos to the maximum size I thought they might be in the final collage. Then, I moved them around to test various placements. Finally, I did the sizing, alignment, and cropping. Of course, there were last minute changes.

It seems to me, the more elements there are in any layout, the more complex the task becomes. I wish I'd had more usable photos than I did have in order for flexibility. So, my first bit of advice is to have plenty of images and a willingness to leave many on the cutting room floor.

There are so many considerations when doing a layout (color, sizing, content, gutter "rivers," centers of interest, scaling, eye movement, etc., etc.) it seems miraculous that a layout can ever be done successfully.

I suppose I'm saying this: "There's just no easy way. Some tools might make it easier, but it's not a walk in the park for me." :!:

Hi Exclaim,

I really like the collage you did!! The black border gives it a very nice final touch. I bet your friend loved it!

Some questions:

What did you mean about using a grid? Is that something different than the ruler guides?

How do you crop an image using layer masks??

What final size did you make yours?

Like you said, doing these kinds of pieces takes time, thought and also inspiration. But you have some very helpful techniques!

Thank you!
Diane

Exclaim,

I'm also wondering about how much time it took you to do yours?

Thanks,
Diane

Diane,

Thanks for the kind words.

To answer your questions...

Grid: In PhotoShop - View>Show>Grid The grid spacing can be changed via Edit>Preferences...

Cropping using masks: Use the rectangular marquee tool to "crop" the image. Invert the selection and fill this area with black after selecting the layer mask

Final size: 8 x 10, but that's only because I didn't want to impose a larger collage on my friend's already well-decorated home.

Time: About 2 hours for layout - this was after correction of the photos (contrast, saturation, etc.).

Hope this helps.

:!:

If you often remove folks from their background and save those layers (i call'em clones") you can make this sort of collage...

You just start with a large white background like 8x10 at 500ppi and drag the layers onto it... adjust them with the transform tool (ctrl-t .. windows) and use the layers pallet to position them depth wise.

if anyone enjoys this a good habit is to save a full sized copy with the layers to add others later.

when you finish just flatten it and change the dpi to the file size you like.

Hi Diane,

This is the first one that I have ever done (March of this year - for a funeral), it took 3 to 3.5 hours and was pretty intense. We charged;

-8x$11=$88 to scan, includes global correctsion and light spotting
-$150 for art work to combine into collage
-$70 for 11x14 printed on our Epson 2200

$308 total plus tax

I found out who the people were and some about his personality and his relationships with the people in the photos to help me figure out where and how to include them.

I am hoping the next one is a little quicker ;)

We also used Photoshop and layers, etc.

Roger

Exclaim,

Thanks for the info on the grid and cropping with masks. These are very good things to know about and may help save alot of time...

Roger,

Thanks for being brave enough to post the first collage you've ever done! I love the way you did the boy in the center! It really gets your attention to the piece.

I would never have thought of the layout you used. I see that it enabled you to not have to reduce the size of some of the pictures. I probably would have had the boy in the center with the other pictures in a circle around him, but then many of the pictures would have had to be reduced.

I am wondering about your $70 charge for the 11x14 print...Assuming your customer sees this breakdown, I worry that it discourages the customer from ordering additional copies.

I've been using some of the online labs (Photo Access and Shutterfly) where I can have a great 11x14 matte print made for under $10 including shipping. The quality has been excellent

Take care,
Diane

Here's one I just finished recently, and it's kind of like Roger's excellent work. It's only the second collage I've made, and I made it for friends. My wife and I remember the subject when he was born, and there was no charge for the work. It was just a way of presenting our friends with something that they might cherish. The large head shot in the center was a heavy crop from another picture on a horse, like the one at the bottom left, and that's about the best I could do with it. But I thought it worked.

I don't know if this helps or not, but I just played with a layer for each photo, and used layer masks to put everything together. That's the beauty of layer masks. You can play with it forever, and undo or redo whatever you're concerned with. This thread shows that there are many ways to make a collage, and it's up to the individual to do whatever it takes to make it work.

Ed

Diane,

Thanks - I grouped images together to make them 'one shape' to each grouping instead of a lot of little shapes to simplify the composition. Regarding:

I am wondering about your $70 charge for the 11x14 print...Assuming your customer sees this breakdown, I worry that it discourages the customer from ordering additional copies

The customer doesn't order photos they don't need just because they are cheap - but they do order the number that they want at the best quality. It is kind of like paying for good art work - they are paying for us to manage the printing because they know it will be the best.

Ed,

Great composition on yours, love the leg over the hat, how eating is kitty-corner, and the riding is kittty-corner. My first impression is that the two large heads together in the bottom right corner is a little off balance grouping wise, but I am not sure what to do about it.

Roger

good one Ed

Roger and rondon,

Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't looking for kudos. Just trying to give an alternative way of making a collage.

Ed

Roger, loved the work. What on earth does kitty corner mean, it's not a phrase used this side of the pond.

Thanks Gary, Kitty Corner = opposite corner, but used more often in the relation of two objects to each other without regards to the space around them as in 'my house is kitty corner to George's house' (accross the street and over at an angle or could be on the diagonal corner if my house is on the corner) :) loosly - at an angle

searched and found this definition on the web
kitty-corner

adj : slanted across a polygon on a diagonal line; "set off in a catty-corner direction across the vacant lot"


Roger

Thanks very much for the explanation, I guess this is a classic example of two nations seperated by a common language.

I guess this is a classic example of two nations seperated by a common language.

Just as "Bloody well right" means the well on the right which the wounded animal fell into here in the colony ! ;)

Roger,

Hope I didn't offend you re my comment about the cost of the 11x14 print. I have found that when customers are really happy with their collage, they do buy multiple copies and good pricing helps.

Ed,

I'm curious how you used layer masks to put everything together??


Here is a collage I made for my brother, for his last birthday. He really loved it. (That's me on the left side, second row from bottom). Starting at the bottom left corner, I tried to show the story of his life: studying in grad school, graduating med school, getting engaged, getting married, his first child, etc...

It looks pretty simple, but it involved quite alot of resizing and cropping of pictures until I could get everything to fit together. Wish I'd known about Ed's layer mask technique back then...

Diane

Hi Diane,

Layer masks are simple things to use. Basically, I just put each picture on it's own layer and make a layer mask. Then I reduce the opacity until I can see the underlying image easily. That's usually around 50% or so. At that time, I just use a large, soft brush (unless a smaller or harder brush is called for), and paint with black to "erase" parts of the image I want to get rid of. When I'm satisfied, I return the layer to 100% (in most cases). I've found it usually works well if you use the *brush* at very low opacity, around 5% - 10% for starters. Then increase the opacity as needed to speed things up. I have better luck doing a little at a time with lower opacity than to use a higher opacity (on most things). It seems to give a little more control and evenness. If you paint away too much, just repaint on that part with white. The image will return. Be sure you have clicked on the layer mask to make it active before painting. You can even modify it tomorrow, or 6 months from now. If you don't understand this, please say so. I'll be glad to explain more, or someone else will jump in. I think your collage looks pretty darned good.

Ed

Diane,

No offense at all. I am a photographer with many friends/associates in my area who paint the whole possible range of pricing structures and 'how they do things', and I see them all work. I don't think people really care how we do things, they do care that it makes sense, that they feel like their best interest is at heart and what the total bill comes to. But the logistics of whether art work is $175 and the print is $25 or art work is $125 and the print is $75 ... they just trust us for figuring out what it takes for us to make a living. Then they look at the total of our quote for what they want and decide whether it is worth it to them. Bottom line, do what ever you are comfortable with, I was only responding to your question of how we could charge $70 for an 11x14.

I have sold images on a CD ($15 for the CD) and the customer has gone elsewhere to print, but if we are going to be responsible for managing the image through to the finish, then the prices we charge are for that service. We are not selling that piece of 11x14 paper, we are selling the service of managing and providing that piece of 11x14 paper with the trust that the image on it is done as good as possible. If not, we will pay to redo it before the customer ever sees it - and they do not have to worry about knowing if it is as good as possible.

Sorry if I am straying, pulling in the reigns ....

Good job on the collage for your brother. Layers is def. the way to go. If you do a selection with one of the selection tools like the marcee tool, then type control-delete, you will fill the selection with your background color, so ...

-make your selection
-click on the layers mask to select it
-type control-shift-I to invert your selection
-type control-delete (with black as your background color) to fill with black
-you can un-link the mask from the layer to move it around using the move tool to change what the mask is hideing
-if you want to change the size of the mask with out changing the size of the image on the layer, select the mask (make sure that the mask is unlinked from the layer, type Control-T to use free transform (make sure the layer isn't locked), then re-size or reshape mask as desired.
-want to feather the mask, use gaussian blur or one of the filters on the mask ... want to change the brightness? use levels or curves on the mask.

Sorry for such a long post
Best Regards,
Roger

Roger,

Thanks very much for your note and the info on the layer masks. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but this looks very helpful!

Re what you wrote: "... we are selling the service of managing and providing that piece of 11x14 paper with the trust that the image on it is done as good as possible. If not, we will pay to redo it before the customer ever sees it - and they do not have to worry about knowing if it is as good as possible."

This is a very good point. I just had a 16x20 print made up for someone and somehow, even though I've only taken it out of the tube it's rolled up in twice, a small area at one of the edges got lightly damaged apparently as I was last putting it back in the tube and now it will need to be redone...:rolleyes:

Best regards,
Diane