In a recent message Ed L. suggested a Genealogy Forum here at RetouchPRO. I think that would be a great way for family historians to tap into the restoration assistance that RetouchPRO members share so readily. It would also be a place to discuss some other issues we are encountering:

Dating photos--identifying people using costume, photographers and photo style as clues; finding resources for this information

Digitizing documents for inclusion in family files whether from scanner, digital camera or downloaded from internet

Researching in distant repositories--gathering as much information as possible in a limited time

Manipulating digital images of books and microfilm--hundreds of genealogists are looking for help on this one

These are just a few issues I have encountered. I am sure there are many others.

Meanwhile, thank you to all the members of RetouchPRO for an awesome website. I feel as if I have become acquainted with so many of you and I have to drop in just to catch up on everybody. :wavey:

MaryLynn

Geneology Forum? one of the more bizarre suggestions I've heard on RetouchPRO since I joined.

I guess I'll wait and see how much demand there is. In the meantime, this sounds a bit like http://www.deadfred.com/

In a recent message Ed L. suggested a Genealogy Forum here at RetouchPRO.

Actually, I didn't mean that seriously. However, if it does happen, I'll be there! :happy:

But we don't need a dedicated forum to discuss things of that nature. I think the Salon forum would be the place to post, maybe with "Genealogy" to be included in the subject. Who knows? Maybe it would be a big draw!

Ed

Hi Ed, thanks for your reply.

Are you using a digital camera to capture images of microfilm or documents that can't be put on a copy machine? Several of us are trying it and having some success but I'd like to swap ideas with other people. What tricks have you learned for getting the best possible image and then, what techniques have you used to edit your image?

I have a few tricks I've learned that I am happy to share with others.

MaryLynn

Feel free to start threads and invite people. If it gets popular enough I'll start a special forum and move them there. That's exactly how the Photo-Art forum started.

Hi MaryLynn,

I can't really say that I'm a seasoned genealogist. In fact, I could probably be described as pretty new to the idea.

To date, I've been fortunate enough to find a local historical society that had old newspapers with information that was a big help to me. Unlike most places of this type, they allowed me to physically handle the papers, and have copies made of whatever I found. So there was no problem there.

I did find images of quite a few census records online that interested me. When I found these, I would make the image as large as possible on the screen, then do screenshots. I made as many screenshots as necessary to get the complete page. These were then put into a new file in Photoshop, and stitched together. Typically, the end result is a file with enough pixels to make viewing very large on a monitor, and this has helped in reading difficult images. The same is true with ship manifests.

I have done quite a bit of copy work for genealogy, but it was almost always making copies of photos. Probably 95% of my copywork was been done with traditional film cameras, usually medium format.

Explain a little what you have done, what you want to do, and maybe we can put our heads together (along with others) to find answers to problems.

Ed

Hi Doug and Ed. Thanks for this opportunity!

Ed, I started using my camera to take microfilm shots about nine months ago. My experience at our local branch of the National Archives (NARA) sold me on doing it.

There are 35 microfilm readers at NARA but only two microfilm printers. Usual practice is use one of the regular readers to find the pages you want to copy, then you have to remove the reels from that machine and take it to one of the printing machines. Don't drop the reels in the process. You may have to stand in line to use the printer. Finally, you get it reloaded, find the page, get it in focus, put your coins in the slot and hope the exposure setting will give you a good copy. If it doesn't, you may have to spend more money to get a good picture. Meanwhile, other people are waiting in line. You finish getting your picture and then remove the reels and go back to the regular reader to rewind.

Now, you take your printed copy home and want to share it with your cousin in another state, so you scan, resize, etc.

The first day I took my camera was especially busy. I eliminated the whole printer process by taking camera shots at the regular reader. I captured about two dozen images off of three rolls of film, packed up my camera and left. No muss, no fuss.

I've learned how to cut down on the "hot spot" in the center of the image which is caused by the light reflecting off the glossy surface of the reader. I'm still trying to learn how to edit out the dark areas in the corners. The fact that the microfilm has dark corners doesn't help at all. I'm sure you have found that on some of the census and passenger list pages you have found on the internet. And, of course, your elusive ancestor is right there in that dark corner!

I'm glad you are having success with your local historical group and the internet. Isn't it grand to be able to use 21st century technology to find our ancestors?

MaryLynn

I'm into genealogy as well. In fact that is how I got started doing retouching, etc. I'd be happy to participate and learn from others in this area.

I'm lucky enough to have had access to a camera stand to take some of my ancestors pictures. That was a big help. However, most of the time I have to make do without one and have often had a fingertip or two included in the shot to prove (hahaha) that someone was holding down the book pages. How do the rest of you hold down those pages? The information I need seems to always be in the middle of the book somewhere.

Janet

Hi Janet, glad to hear from you.

When I started doing this I looked around in my kitchen for gadgets to help me out. I have a wire bookrack that folds up and fits inside a file folder. My local Barnes and Noble sells it for $5.00. I also found the plastic gadgets that hold a tablecloth on a picnic table, package of four is $1.25. They are very helpful for holding pages and you can crop them out later. If I'm in a library, I use other books to help hold the book open.

But my best find is a camera support that is like a clamp desk lamp but a ball joint that screws into the camera. I can clamp it onto a table or the back of a chair and then swivel the camera into position. On a microfilm reader I can suspend the camera over the opening and don't have to reposition it. I only have to advance the film to my next shot. The support can be unscrewed into three parts that fit nicely into my camera bag. I found this at my local camera chain store for $20.

For shooting pictures I made a small tryptich out of foam board and I use binder clips to hold the pictures in place. You could also use the binder clips on books.

This is a new way of doing research and a new use for the technology so, in a sense, we have to use the same ingenuity our pioneering ancestors did. I love it! I look forward to learning how other people fare.

MaryLynn

Ed, On realising your interest in Geneology I immediately took horse to the Lords manor and consulted the local thane. An exhaustive search of the parish registers and earlier parchments proved conclusivly that you are the long lost descendant of Edward the Very Bad who fled to the New World in 902 to avoid tithes and his share of the Danegeld.
Therefore could you please remit the outstanding $108,000,000.000 75c inc interest to my personal account....

That would be what, about 2 pounds 8? :)

I'll take 2 1gb CF cards, a signed photograph of the traitor Washington and Arizona in full settlement!

Ed, On realising your interest in Geneology I immediately took horse to the Lords manor and consulted the local thane. An exhaustive search of the parish registers and earlier parchments proved conclusivly that you are the long lost descendant of Edward the Very Bad who fled to the New World in 902 to avoid tithes and his share of the Danegeld.
Therefore could you please remit the outstanding $108,000,000.000 75c inc interest to my personal account....

Chris,

I'm certain you're trying to scam me! I have a paid in full receipt that Edward The Very Bad handed down to his ancestors. Of course there are some who would say he made it in Photoshop!!

Ed

Janet and MaryLynn,

When I was doing a lot of copy work, I made a copy stand out of pipe, and a few fittings. The bed was made out of 3/4" plywood, and the setup worked beautifully. It was pretty heavy, and not something you'd want to lug around. This could be used with polarizer lights and a filter, or without. The use of colored filters also came in handy, if there were stains on the pictures.

I also made a photo holder out of 1X2s or 1X3s and pegboard. The 1X2s were put into a rectangle, and glued and nailed together. On one side, I drilled a hole large enough for a vacuum hose to fit tightly into. One side of the frame was covered with peg board, and the other was covered with hardboard (like pegboard, but without the holes). This was especially good for pictures that had a tendency to curl, but it worked very well for others as well. The picture was put on the side with the holes, and a vacuum hose was attached to the frame. Turning on the vac created a suction, and the picture was absolutely flat for copying (be careful not to cause cracks on the photo). If the picture was smaller than the pegboard, the area surrounding the picture needed to be covered with paper, or the suction would be lost. The whole contraption could be set on the base of the copy stand, or used in any other way. I never invested in polarizer lights, so there were times I used the photo holder outdoors. By watching the direction of light, I had good results using a polarizing filter on the camera without having to buy the the filters for the lights.

I no longer have the setup, but making the photo holder is a snap. It is lightweight, and if I had a lot of pictures to copy today, I'd make another one.

MaryLynn said "I've learned how to cut down on the "hot spot" in the center of the image which is caused by the light reflecting off the glossy surface of the reader. " Where does the reflection come from??

Ed

Just a thought.

I'm wondering if in the future when someone posts an old family picture the person's name and a bit of history could be included. I've done enough research and had enough "miracles" happen to be thoroughly convinced that there is someone somewhere with your missing information or you with their missing information. Who knows, by posting that information we might be put in contact with more information (or more pictures). I know, it happened to me this summer. I now have in my possession the "missing" photo album that three generations have been looking for. What say everyone?

Janet

Hell, In the US you spend all your time unearthing relatives and ancestors over here I spend all my time avoiding them! As one of the conspirators I propose Ed as moderator of this forum but insist it lies well away from 'Salon'!!!

Hi everybody,

Janet, I'm all for your suggestion of sharing information about old family photos, at least to the extent of family name, location, time period and photographer if available. I wouldn't want to get into the type of message board of Genforum or Rootsweb where more general information is shared. But sharing connections we've made based on photos can be valuable.

Ed, regarding the reflection on microfilm: on the older microfilm readers the light at the top of the reader passes through the film onto a white formica bed. The center of the image is brighter than the outer edges. The human eye doesn't pick up the variation in intensity but the camera does. By laying a piece of poster board, matte side up, on the reader bed, the center of the image is still bright but not reflective. I'll hunt for one of my early shots to post in a future message.

I've also found by shifting my desired microfilm image to the side or bottom of the bed I can avoid the hot spot. Needless to say to anyone shooting microfilm--TURN OFF THE FLASH.

Also, I like your ideas for a copy stand. In situations where portability is not a factor, it would be great. Fortunately, repositories are becoming more accommodating by having copy stands and magnetic boards in their facilities.

Ah, Chris, wouldn't it be ironic if we were to discover that one of us is related to you? I think you are safe from me as most of my English families were from Kent, Devon, Cornwall and London itself. I haven't run across Edward the Very Bad yet but, you never know. In my local genealogy society I have found connections to five other people whose families left England in the early 1600s.

Til later--
MaryLynn

Chris, if you avoid yours, how about finding mine? :devil:

Janet I'm your servant in these matters.

For $500 I can connect your lineage with some castle in the UK.

For $1000 virtually certain your ancestors fought at Waterloo.

For $5000 proof positive of a connection with the tyrant of your choice.

For $10,000 the very armorial document given to Sir Elvis Petty on his joining the Knights of the round table.

No credit cards.

While techniques and information are within our potential scope, posting family images for their own sake would eat up our server and bandwidth allowance. Plus there are already sites for that.

But I'm still open to how-to and historical information and examples.

I attended a meeting recently of genealogy enthusiasts co-chaired by MaryLynn. There were 40+ in attendance and I can say this was an eager-to-learn bunch when it came to R&R techniques. Among the topics MaryLynn presented were cloning, making selections and using Levels adjustment layers for BW tonal corrections via black/white point settings. It was fun to see so many who were "wowed" by what was possible R&R-wise.

A unique challenge is maximizing readability of (for example) Civil War era documents digitally photographed from microfiche readers.

- - - - -

MaryLynn:

I'm glad you started this thread and hope it sparks interest. I'll be mailing your book today!

~Danny~

To Chris: hahahaha You have a warped sense of humor. How fun!!!

To Doug: I'm sorry if I gave the impression we would be starting our own genealogy society on your site. I meant nothing of the kind. I know that people frequently have old photos to be retouched, have questions about photos, etc. I just meant that when those photos are posted that the person could be encouraged to add genealogical information as well. It would be a simple matter to contact that person via p.m. or email and converse one-on-one. I appreciate this site and have learned so much. I wouldn't want to offend or step out of line.

Janet

Ditto what Janet said. Retouch and restoration, preservation, some historical or technical info should be the primary focus here. This is such a great website I wouldn't want to compromise it in any way.

Thanks Danny for your continued support and encouragement!

MaryLynn

Before I asked the question, I did do a search to see if there was a previous discussion. I agree with the above, that retouchpro is not the best place to discuss geneology and old photos, but does anyone out there know of a good geneology discussion site similar to this one for retouching?

While I'm asking...one of video shooting and editing?

I apologize for asking, but if anyone knows I feel someone on this site may provide an answer.

the history forum has one aspect of genealogy, dating photos, so perhaps that would be a good forum to post in regarding genealogy.

also, i dont know how many of you remember deadants, currently a somewhat absent member of RetouchPRO, but he used to hang out at this genealogy forum: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,298.0.html in case you're looking for more genealogy resources.

thanks Craig...now do you know a forum for video?