RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Computer Generated Images
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Computer Generated Images Combining 3D models with photos, or crafting fully synthetic images using CGI or fractals

How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 05-30-2007, 12:16 PM
CJ Swartz's Avatar
CJ Swartz CJ Swartz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Metro Phoenix area, Arizona
Posts: 3,345
Blog Entries: 19
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

"We become "more," according to perceptual psychology, by means of differentiation, a process that involves pulling a figure out of a background. Learning is not a matter of connecting a stimulus and a response or one stimulus with another or even one response with another. Learning is a matter of improving the quality of one's phenomenal field by extracting some detail from the confusion, because that detail is important, is meaningful, to the person." -- from a web review

You have pulled a figure out of the background -- you have created a perception, meaningful to you. Others may perceive something different, or similar, according to their own perceptual field.

YOU have created a figure, a perception
You have CREATED a figure, a perception
You have created a FIGURE, a PERCEPTION
Reply With Quote top
  #12  
Old 05-30-2007, 01:59 PM
Doug Nelson's Avatar
Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
Janitor
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,068
Blog Entries: 21
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

So at what point does recording something become creating something? The glib response would be that you "create" a record, but I think we're all aware of the differentiation I'm referring to.
Reply With Quote top
  #13  
Old 05-30-2007, 02:35 PM
Racc Iria's Avatar
Racc Iria Racc Iria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rockville, MD USA
Posts: 252
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Nelson View Post
So at what point does recording something become creating something? The glib response would be that you "create" a record, but I think we're all aware of the differentiation I'm referring to.
The moment you gave it enough meaning to decide you wanted to record it. At that moment you created meaning, interpretation, and understanding of it. By recording it, you (even unconsciously) gave it your own "spin." Even if you are the only person to ever see it, it's no longer just a record of what was, but it also reminds you of the meaning it had for you when you recorded it.

An example... take 100 photographers and tell them to take a picture using the same camera of a particular pebble that just happened to land where it is on the beach. Each photographer takes a photo of the exact same pebble, but you don't get 100 copies of the same image. You get 100 different photos, each with subtleties unique to each photographer. The camera (as in a piece of software, or language, or the alphabet) was just a tool used in the process.
Reply With Quote top
  #14  
Old 05-30-2007, 04:06 PM
Doug Nelson's Avatar
Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
Janitor
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,068
Blog Entries: 21
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

Change the pebble to a print of Ansel Adams' Moonrise. Do we still have 100 original creations? Is "unoriginal creation" an oxymoron? I'd venture "interpretation" might be a midground between creation and recording.
Reply With Quote top
  #15  
Old 05-30-2007, 04:28 PM
Racc Iria's Avatar
Racc Iria Racc Iria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rockville, MD USA
Posts: 252
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Nelson View Post
Change the pebble to a print of Ansel Adams' Moonrise. Do we still have 100 original creations? Is "unoriginal creation" an oxymoron? I'd venture "interpretation" might be a midground between creation and recording.
Yes, the same would apply with a print of Ansel Adams' Moonrise. Each photographer would still be adding layers of their own interpretation onto the already existing creation. For example... shadows, lighting, angle, cropping, etc. might change the mood or meaning of the original. But at that point you're really talking about a dirivitive work.

I thought you were trying to isolate the moment of creation. And in that sense just "seeing" anything is an act of creation on your brain's part filtered through your psyche and experience. Your brain collects information gathered from sensors in your body and "creates" an image for you to see. That image does not exist for anyone else. It can't. Because two objects, in this case people, can't occupy the same space at the same time. And that's just taking into account the physical aspects of the situation, let alone the aspects of time and experience.
Reply With Quote top
  #16  
Old 05-30-2007, 04:33 PM
Doug Nelson's Avatar
Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
Janitor
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,068
Blog Entries: 21
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

So if I put a poem on a copier, each time I hit "copy" I'm creating a new poem?

My point is that, perhaps, just "making" something isn't necessarily "creating" anything.
Reply With Quote top
  #17  
Old 05-30-2007, 05:02 PM
Racc Iria's Avatar
Racc Iria Racc Iria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rockville, MD USA
Posts: 252
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

I guess it depends on how granular you want to get and how you define "create."

Each time you hit the copy button, the copy machine has a little less toner, incurs more wear and tear, etc. which may very very subtlely change the phyical properties of the medium the poem is on, which in some small way may affect the experience of the person reading the poem.

Does that alter the meaning of the poem? Technically, possibly if the words become hard to read or something, but probably not. But the question is if we make 100 copies of the poem do we have 100 unique poems? And, in a way, I think so.

First, we have the subtle differences in the physical medium. I think we can agree to that. Differences in each piece of paper, toner level in the machine, moisture, etc.

Second, we have the idea that is the poem itself. Namly the meaning and interpretation of the words themselves, despite their physical appearance.

Now, here are the two simplest scenarios as I see it. With 100 copies of the poem, either 100 different people will read and interpret it, or on the other extreme, one person will read and examine all 100 copies.

If 100 different people read it, the ideas are filtered throught their own experiences and ideas and will mean something different to each of them, so you'd have 100 different poems as the idea that makes up the original poem is reinvented and filtered for each person.

Now let's say one person reads all 100 copies. The first time you read it, the poem will have certain meaning and call up certain imagery custom to that person. When the person reads the second copy of that poem, they are no longer the same person, because time has passed and they've had new experiences (reading and experiencing the first reading of the poem). So, this time around, the poem means something different to the reader. By the time they read the 100th copy of the poem, they may have turned out to hate the thing, which they loved when they started. Or, they may come to love it even more, or somewhere in between. Either way, each copy of the peom and its idea will have a subtlely different effect on the person. And it could therefore be argued that you'd still have 100 different poems since each copy caused a gradation of change and experience within the reader.

That's getting really nitpicky, but it's a valid argument. I had a similar one once with an old English professor of mine back in college.
Reply With Quote top
  #18  
Old 05-30-2007, 05:12 PM
Doug Nelson's Avatar
Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
Janitor
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,068
Blog Entries: 21
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

Did you hand in a photocopy of a poem?
Reply With Quote top
  #19  
Old 05-30-2007, 05:19 PM
Doug Nelson's Avatar
Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
Janitor
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,068
Blog Entries: 21
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

Here's something that just happens to be hitting the blog rounds today:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kicksta...7600262869570/

Did the arsonist "create" the new sculpture? Either way, I suspect he didn't intend to. Or, in finding it, did the photographer (for the sake of this discussion, not counting the photo "record" he made of it)?
Reply With Quote top
  #20  
Old 05-30-2007, 08:52 PM
Doug Nelson's Avatar
Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
Janitor
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,068
Blog Entries: 21
Re: How Synthetic is Too Synthetic?

I found this to be delightful. Marcel Duchamp (the father of "found art") actually did create his subjects and only claimed he found them. This was discovered too late though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Found_art
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Computer Generated Images


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Synthetic Studio Artist for Mac - PC on the way GillyH Software 1 07-04-2005 08:41 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved