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Contests Retouching contests to challenge your skills and learn from others. Prizes for the winners!

May 05 Contest Discussion

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  #11  
Old 05-02-2005, 02:53 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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ah, restoration! i love it. this is a great example of a restoration project and i would caution folks to be VERY careful here. there are, of course, the obvious flaws, tears, smudges and so on, but there are some real subtle things in this one that makes it a great entry for a contest. it's going to be quite interesting here to see who picks up on what. this image is almost a case of where your powers of observation are more important than your photoshop skills. i've already found myself using the 'undo' quite a bit. and i already see that at least one entry posted has missed a few things.

this is an image, where if i were doing it for a customer, i'd be staying in close communication with them, showing them progress and asking just how much detail they really wanted or not, for i can see putting in many hours on this thing and running up a tab that the customer wasnt too happy with. on the other hand, some folks want every bit of detail they can get and are willing to pay for it. thus, it's going to be quite interesting how various contestants here handle this for the contest.

remember, the clone tool is your best friend or your worst enemy in restorations. use it wisely

K.
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  #12  
Old 05-02-2005, 03:37 PM
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soleah soleah is offline
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LegacyArt,
I think I'll do the same and watch on the sidelines.

TPaul,
Aside from the number of votes, what other factor do you use in determining the winner/ranking? Just curious. I might be tallying votes, too.
Can you give us the formula?
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  #13  
Old 05-02-2005, 07:32 PM
Doug Colwell Doug Colwell is offline
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Oh boy, another contest. My guess is 5 points for 1st, 4 points for 2nd, etc.
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  #14  
Old 05-02-2005, 07:43 PM
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T Paul T Paul is offline
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Soleah, Doug is correct on the formula used for calculating the winner...

5 points for each first place vote,
4 points for each 2nd place vote,
3 points for each 3rd place vote,
2 points for each 4th place vote, and
1 point for each 5th place vote.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2005, 01:30 AM
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soleah soleah is offline
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Thanks, Doug & TPaul.
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2005, 01:13 PM
Sean2 Sean2 is offline
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Hello All,

I missed last month's voting. Sorry, just got too involved in something and it slipped my mind ( yes - for more than a week )

Conratulations to the winner (RH)!

Chris, Legacy Art, all this is, is a contest and a chance to work on or perfect your technique. Don't worry about where you place, just enjoy the diversity of approach and art work and keep drinking the Guiness.

I encourage you both to enter the contest . I am gaining tremendous insight with the variety and takes on retouch and the more the merrier. Some approaches I would not take, conversely I was nauseated by my own effort after looking at the final array. This is almost as good as multiple tutorials, but lacking the verbiage.

Here's my challenge to the two of you. If you both enter I promise not to win.

Sean
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2005, 02:38 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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i would remind folks that there is a big difference between 'retouch' and 'restore', and to me, there is even a difference between 'retouch' and 'reconstruct'. to me, a retouch is taking an image and making it better than it was, e.g. a model has blemishes, veins, or other 'imperfections' showing in the image and retoucher air brushes, or whatever, to remove those to make the image more 'perfect'. a restoration is a restore, a bring it back to its original state as best as possible from the evidence available. there is NO speculation in a restore, or at least as little as possible. a reconstruct can be more speculative. you restore from the evidence but ALSO fill in what you think shld be there, on a best guess basis.

Quote:
The key to a good restoration is remaining true to the image. You want to clean up and restore the image…not change it.
that's from the contest rules on this challenge..... remaining true to the image! you look at what's there and do your best to bring it back to its original state based on the actual evidence in the original. that means, to me, that if an area is so badly damaged or faded, with no surrounding evidence on which to base the restore, you leave it alone!

in a reconstruction, you might actually do a little research to try and find period pieces or similar items and duplicate those in in place of missing areas. you might reconstruct whole faces or furniture or tones or lighting all based on a best guess or researched result. thus, there is more leeway here in a reconstruction. a good example of this is in archaeology. an archaeologist might reconstruct a whole civilization based on a few bones and artifacts and correlating data. but if he/she wanted to restore a house of that civilization, he would need the actual remnants of that house to work from and enough of it to make a pretty good go of it without having to speculate too much.

now, that's just my take on it. others may have differing definitions for this stuff, but since i plan on entering, that's how i'll be voting on it.

study the picture. observe. see what's really there and notice what's not there as well. there is a LOT of misleading evidence in this one. i'll give you one clue so far that almost tripped me up. the children are standing in front of a backdrop. that is NOT a wall or room behind them

one could literally spend a hundred hours on an image like this and still not get it all perfectly correct. it's a tricky restore challenge. like i said before, if working for a customer on this i'd be staying in close communication to see just how much they were willing to have me do. i've already gone back to nearly the start on this thing twice now. i just keep finding 'other' things. i'd also be very careful with the use of filters on this one. details have a way of dropping out directly in proportion to the number of filters used.

so, you see, i'm not only a compulsive nitpicker, i'm also didactic

good luck

K.
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2005, 03:40 PM
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byRo byRo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
so, you see, i'm not only a compulsive nitpicker..
I wouldn't call discussing competition rules, nitpicking. After having organized bowling tournaments for many years, I know that if a rule isn't defined right, sooner or later there's going to be some trouble - even with real nice people!
I agree that there are differences between retouching, restoration and reconstruction, and there have been a few times that I almost started this discussion.
This competition calls for restoration "true to the image" but which image - the original (which doesn't actually exist any more) or the posted one (which is "distorted")?
Of course, everybody understands that some reconstruction is allowed here - otherwise the kid in the middle wouldn't get any eyes.
However, Murphy's Law is universal and if there is some "loophole" in the rules, someone sometime is going to use it.
I've already taken up too much of your time, hope this gets people thinking.

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  #19  
Old 05-04-2005, 01:53 PM
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Flora Flora is offline
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In my opinion, restore means trying to bring back a picture to the conditions it had when it was taken, remaining as close as possible to the 'given' original...

I think/guess that, when this picture was taken, the little girl sitting in the middle of it had eyes ... I also think/guess that, in the original picture, her little head wasn't misshapen ... as, the 'malformation' in our copy seems to be caused by the big scratch in the middle ....

Whenever scratches, spots, mold etc. are digitally removed from a picture, some kind of 'reconstruction' takes 'necessarily' place .... and not everybody may agree with it ... but, usually, that's what is being asked to do in restorations ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Paul

1. Evaluate and correct the image’s tone & contrast
2. Dust, mold & stain removal
3. Eliminate scratches & cracks
4. Fill in missing information
and so on....

The key to a good restoration is remaining true to the image. You want to clean up and restore the image…not change it.
...otherwise .... why bother with all the work? ....

Last edited by Flora; 05-05-2005 at 03:06 AM.
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2005, 03:03 PM
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chrishoggy chrishoggy is offline
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I agree with Flora on this point. I view a restoration as bringing the photo back to as near to new/just taken as possible, but keeping the age of the photo within the restoration. Where detail is missing, I replace it with detail as close to the original as possible. Only if a person (when asked) refuses the extra detail, would I leave it with parts of the photo missing. If you look at the English Dictionary definition of restoration, I don't think I am far off with my take on it
Restoration:
a:the act or process of returning something to its earlier good condition or position
Function: noun
b: the act of restoring or the condition of being restored: as a : a returning to a normal or healthy condition.
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