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May 05 Contest Discussion

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  #41  
Old 05-05-2005, 07:41 AM
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T Paul T Paul is offline
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Looks like this contest got everyone really thinking about the meaning of restoration and how to approach it. Great discussion guys and gals! As for this contest, I think Gary said it best:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Richardson
My only comment here, is that the guidelines from Jaime's link refer to archival images, where the motives for restoring may not be the motives of a client.

Context is all. An archival picture is a historical document, and retaining its integrity is of prime importance. Whereas a restoration done for a client may not have to stick so rigidly to such guidelines.
Also kudos to those that have pointed out things to look for, as well as added suggestions and tips towards this restoration. That’s exactly what I like to see in the discussion section!
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  #42  
Old 05-05-2005, 08:10 AM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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hmm... let me see if i can clarify what i was trying to say in my original post on this. i'll use an example from the contest pic for may. at the bottom of the image is a carpet. near the back of that carpet you can see the pattern of the carpet, but as you move down the image that pattern fades to nothing. it's no longer there, no longer discernable and there's quite a bit of that part that is no longer discernable. it's not a small smudge or dust spec or something that a small use of clone is going to alter. and there is no way to tell from just the evidence in that picture as to how to rebuild that pattern. thus, in a 'restore' you would simply leave that area alone. in a 'reconstruct' you might do some investigation of period carpets or find another image that had such a carpet within it and use that information to rebuild your carpet pattern in the original.

thus, i'm only talking about the labels 'restore' and 'reconstruct' when used as the overall criteria for the work and not when you're talking about individual actions within that work. in other words, if a client came to me and said i want you to 'restore' this photo, i would think one thing, whereas if he came to me and said i want a 'reconstruction', i would think in other terms. thus, i'm only talking here about the use of those terms when applied to the main purpose of the work and not individual actions taken while doing the work. yes, one could and shld 'reconstruct' the eyes of the middle child. there is enough information there in the image itself to do this fairly reliably. the same is also true for the child on the right's left hand. by all means restore or reconstruct it. but the carpet, where the pattern is missing so much and so badly, is impossible to do reliably without some other information on which to base that. thus, i would simply leave that part alone in a 'restore'. sure, clean it up a bit, but without other information on which to base your work you're just not going to do it.

and that's really all i was referring to in my original post on the subject.

and chrishoggy, sshhhhhh, you're giving away secrets yes, the photo is torn and someone attempted to put it back together. and that's one of the items i was referring to when saying that you really need to study this image and another way to do that is to make a selection out of one half of the image where the tear is and simply re-paste is back in the right place. this was my first step in working with this picture. everything else is secondary to that one.

K.
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  #43  
Old 05-05-2005, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
hmm... let me see if i can clarify what i was trying to say in my original post on this. i'll use an example from the contest pic for may.
*snip*
but the carpet, where the pattern is missing so much and so badly, is impossible to do reliably without some other information on which to base that. thus, i would simply leave that part alone in a 'restore'. sure, clean it up a bit, but without other information on which to base your work you're just not going to do it.
An interesting example Kraellin, as my gut feeling looking at that image that the carpet has not faded away, but that it appeared that way in the original print - be it through lighting, or masking. Therefore substituting another carpet would not just be reconstruction, but actually modification of the image.

I can't help but think that some of this discussion may be a little premature though, given it is a competition? (No matter how casual and friendly )
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  #44  
Old 05-05-2005, 09:38 AM
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I feel the bottom half has faded. If you look at the pic below you will see that the shadow under the feet of the older boy and girl (red arrow)are different in colour. They both share the same light source, so should be roughly the same. If you look at the chair leg (green arrow), you can see a water mark outlining the damaged/faded area, this can also be seen on the carpet in areas. Note that the left front chair leg has next to no shadow cast on it in the faded area and looks flat, this again tells me that fading has taken place.
Also if you look at the very bottom of the picture, you can still make out the carpet grain/pattern, but the darker (pattern) area has faded to a fine trace.

Quote:
I can't help but think that some of this discussion may be a little premature though, given it is a competition? (No matter how casual and friendly )
I note that the small tip I gave helped 2 people, and may improve their entry. That can only improve the contest by improving the entries submitted. Also people not knowing that little tip, may decide to enter when they see that they can get a good result from a simple method.
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  #45  
Old 05-05-2005, 10:17 AM
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Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
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The way I realigned the two parts of the image was to duplicate the image, then use the extract filter.

By using the highlight tool set to smart highlight, it is a very simple matter to draw along the line of the tear. Then extract the upper half.

Now use the move tool to nudge the extracted section 3 or 4 clicks to the right.
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  #46  
Old 05-05-2005, 10:19 AM
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For me personally, the line between restoration and reconstruction seems to depend on how realistic I can make something look. If I'm trying to repair something in an image, but I can't make it look absolutely real or if it starts looking too "painted" then I know for myself, that I've crossed the line. At that point, if it's for a client, I'll ask them what they want me to do. Sometimes they'll provide additional images that I can use to realistically rebuild the damaged area, but most often they are more than pleased with what was able to be restored. If it's not for a client, then I usually just leave the area alone and clean it up as best I can since I have no more information available.

I think that the line between restoration and reconstruction is influenced by the skill level of the artist and is going to be a little bit different for everybody.
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  #47  
Old 05-05-2005, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caitlin
I can't help but think that some of this discussion may be a little premature though, given it is a competition? (No matter how casual and friendly )
I would like to believe that this is a different type of competition*. Although it would be nice to be the best and win a prize, everybody who enters the competition is a winner. An on-going discussion of the work, is a valid experience and for those who actively participate the winnings are even higher.
So, yes, let's discuss the carpet, let's discuss the tear....and what about the clothes? - some people have made some decorative versions.

* by the fact that the images are posted and viewed by all before the deadline.


(1499 Km to go)
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  #48  
Old 05-05-2005, 11:26 AM
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As far as the clothes go, I messed about with curves and filters to try and see what detail/patterns were there. I then went through many source images to try and find a good match. The boys clothing was a problem for me, as most of the source images (with that style of shirt) had waistcoats on. So his shirt has been made from 2 sources.
The little girls dress is only a small section of a source image, and the same idea for the big girls dress.
All the clothes were done on there own layers on around 30 opacity, that way it only gave a hint of detail, but let the aged look of the original come through
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  #49  
Old 05-05-2005, 11:43 AM
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Quote:

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  #50  
Old 05-05-2005, 12:17 PM
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I am enjoying the on-going discussion about restoration and reconstruction. Thank you jaime for the guidelines. I appreciate the tips, but since this is a contest to use what we have learned from the site, maybe some things should be held back until the end.

Cathy
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