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May 05 Contest Discussion

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  #81  
Old 05-17-2005, 03:11 PM
Craig Walters's Avatar
Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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there's an old saying that goes something like 'dont ask for advice; you might get it.'. so to me, to critique someone's entry, sort of fits that old saying in that i dont want to step on toes, sensitivities, particularly when un-asked for. it's very easy to crush a dream by becoming a 'critic'. thus, i tend to stay away from it (and also tend not to ask for advice/critiques )

are there pieces that could stand improvement, sure; my own included (though it's not submitted yet). and i've also seen some that have shown me where i've missed something.... which has resulted in me re-starting this thing about 3 times now and quite frankly, i think i could easily spend a year on this thing, going grid by grid in an archaeological type style, and cleaning it all up pixel by pixel. so, we see a number of shortcuts or automations done for the sake of time. and i'm no exception to this either. i know i've fudged quite a bit over what might be ultimately possible in a piece like this. but that's part of the contest. time.

the one thing that is also often missed in a critique is 'what did they do right?'. it's so very easy to shred someone's work by only pointing out all the little things they did wrong and forget to praise for what they did right. and in that vein i've seen some very interesting pieces thus far. one person will do a reconstruction on a part i wouldnt have thought to do and do it quite well, while another might focus on another part and do that completely differently from what i might have done. i'd even had the idea of taking everyone's entry and pulling various pieces from each one that i really liked and making a composite, just to see what it would look like. time and sanity, however, have kept me from doing that so far

so, it's sort of a do unto others as you would have them do unto you thing. if i go critic on their work, then it's only fair that they do the same to mine.... and i'm just not sure i would want that

K.

Last edited by Craig Walters; 05-17-2005 at 03:17 PM.
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  #82  
Old 05-18-2005, 05:18 AM
Jaime Jaime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikki
When I use "artistic", with regard to restorations, I'm talking about the artisitic "ability" needed to recreate missing parts of an image.
To me, restoration is not about expressing oneself, and there is no place for one's personal "style" or interpretation of the original work. It's simply about repairing an exisiting work, someone else has created. If one were hired to restore an Amsel Adams, how appropriate would it be to incorporate "your" style into the image?
It's my observation, that evidence of individual style, merely shows a lack of ability, on the restorer, to do the job correctly.
Thanks Vikki for your clear explanation of what is restoring a photo.

Perhaps the nature of this discussion is related with the issue of the status of the photography in Art. This is a very well known matter of controversial between photographers and painters since his birth. Although photography can be found in modern museums, displayed in galleries of art and sold in auctions, the true is that his nature (science, technique, art?) and his status are still an object of discussion in the academic world. As an example, in the FAQ section of the Art Renewal Center, one of the best museums of art on line (and also known for his opinions against modernism in Art), you can read the following question and answer:

Q: What about photography, isn't that art?

No. My position is that photography, which can indeed be a wonderful and excellent thing, is not actually an art form per se. A photographer can be more accurately said to "document" something by showing the audience exactly what was there (when well done, he does this using some of the same techniques that an artist might such as composition, selecting contrast levels, etc.) rather than recreating what was there in light of an expressive goal which allows a great deal of freedom to adjust what is there and how it looks which is unavailable to the photographer. That being the case, since the goals of a photographer and an artist are different (one being to document what is there and the other to express an idea effectively) they should be judged by different standards. I hate to repeat myself, but my position on this seems to be consistently misunderstood. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with photography. Photography is a wonderful thing. It's just not the same kind of thing as art is, that's all. (Brian K. Yoder)”


For further reference:
Art Renewal Center
http://www.artrenewal.org/
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  #83  
Old 05-18-2005, 07:57 AM
MargaretM MargaretM is offline
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Photography and Art..

I think there are different kinds of photography. Newspapers etc. document events, things while photographers such as Ansel Adams use perspective, light, contrasting images,angles, filters to create a work of art.
By the way, when I said there seems little feedback to the entries, I meant in the regular challenges section.
Margaret.
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  #84  
Old 05-18-2005, 08:10 AM
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Caitlin Caitlin is offline
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Challenges

Margaret, I agree with you regarding the lack of participation and discussion in the challenges.

I think one reason is that it is outside the forum. Personally I visit here regualarly, but my link is straight to the forum, so I do not see the challenges without having to 'seek them out'. I understand the reason why they were moved off into a seperate section, so that feedback could be submitted for each entry seperately, they could be viewed as a filmstrip etc, but it means they are rather 'hidden away'.

It would be great I think if they went back into the 'Challenges' section of the forum in the form of an announcement and discussion thread, with a link to the actual submission/viewing area. That would mean more people would view it in the process of browsing the forum, and there could be general discussions, a well as feedback on particular entries.

As a newcomer, I may not know all the reasons why the challenges were moved, but I think it would be great if we could reintroduce a thread in the forums for them.
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  #85  
Old 05-18-2005, 08:21 AM
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cazubi cazubi is offline
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Talking Feedback

I have also noticed that the regular challeges are not getting much feedback. Being new myself I was wondering why, as it seems that the older challenges have lots of comments.

Cathy

Last edited by cazubi; 05-18-2005 at 09:34 PM.
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  #86  
Old 05-18-2005, 10:13 AM
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Duv Duv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime

Q: What about photography, isn't that art?

No. My position is that photography, which can indeed be a wonderful and excellent thing, is not actually an art form per se. A photographer can be more accurately said to "document" something by showing the audience exactly what was there (when well done, he does this using some of the same techniques that an artist might such as composition, selecting contrast levels, etc.) rather than recreating what was there in light of an expressive goal which allows a great deal of freedom to adjust what is there and how it looks which is unavailable to the photographer. That being the case, since the goals of a photographer and an artist are different (one being to document what is there and the other to express an idea effectively) they should be judged by different standards. I hate to repeat myself, but my position on this seems to be consistently misunderstood. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with photography. Photography is a wonderful thing. It's just not the same kind of thing as art is, that's all. (Brian K. Yoder)”
Somewhere in this forum is a pretty exhaustive discussion on this topic of whether photography is art. If someone can locate it, you might find it interesting.

Also, one of the great thinkers of the 20th century, Leo Tolstoy, defines in an essay "What is Art" , in a way that I found extremly interesting and helpful. You can find it here. http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/361r14.html

Cheers
Dave
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  #87  
Old 05-18-2005, 11:33 AM
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byRo byRo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duv
.....Leo Tolstoy, defines in an essay "What is Art" ...
Duv, that's very interesting (*).
Fits in pretty well with something I've been mulling over....

Here at RP I like to mix in with the two sides - with the restoration folk and the arty types. (**)
- On the restoration side the problem is to not let any "personal" (see Tolstoy) ART enter the the final image.
- On the arty side the folks start with a photo and try to introduce personal art. The problem there is exactly the opposite! Just putting in brush strokes and simplifying the colours many times may make it look a bit like a painting, but that doesn't make it ART.

Sorry about the hijack (again), just thought I'd share a thought.



(*) #35 could start a revolution!
(**) OK, the geeks too!
Yeah, I know 1.498Km to go
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  #88  
Old 05-18-2005, 08:39 PM
MargaretM MargaretM is offline
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Art and challenges..

Quote:
Also, one of the great thinkers of the 20th century, Leo Tolstoy, defines in an essay "What is Art" , in a way that I found extremly interesting and helpful. You can find it here. http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/361r14.html
Duv - very interesting essay - no mention of the tools, just the emotional connection. I'm going to read it again as it is quite deep.(understatement).
Caitlin - yes, that would be great!
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  #89  
Old 05-19-2005, 12:44 AM
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Duv Duv is offline
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The beauty of Tolstoy's essay is that it takes Art out of the mind and into the heart, where it always should be. It seems then that Art can be almost anything as long as there is an emotive response among humans..there must be a sender and there must be a receiver. Which makes me wonder how a monkey throwing paint on a canvas can truly be called Art. However, maybe we're getting a bit off topic here.

Cheers
Dave
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  #90  
Old 05-19-2005, 06:14 AM
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byRo byRo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duv
Which makes me wonder how a monkey throwing paint on a canvas can truly be called Art.
That's "upper-class art"?

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