July 05 Discussion Thread

[Ms Bay]

CJ, evidently you did not read all or perhaps understand my post. I did not say all of the entries look like photo art, nor did I mention any particular entry. I was asking TPaul what I thought was something to help me concerning my entry in the contest. Each person is entitled to their own opinion, that is why there are votes for the entries.

[Caitlin]

I thought it might help to get a definition of a glamour portrait. I don't know that this definition helps at all though as it seems to require the model to be partially nude! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glamour_photography.

In my google browsing I didn't find one site that gave really definitive examples of glamour photography, but I'd suggest anyone in doubt does a search with goggle images with the words glamour portrait and look at the examples that come up.

[chrishoggy]

I think the point CJ picked up on, as I did was:
Practically all of them look like paintings or drawings (hence, photo art)

[Caitlin]

Originally Posted by chrishoggy

I think the point CJ picked up on, as I did was:
Practically all of them look like paintings or drawings (hence, photo art)

Maybe that is the test of a 'good' retouch? To me this contest is not that different in aim to the wedding portrait a couple of months ago - make her look really nice, but so no one can tell you did it. (IF they hadn't seen the before)

Personally I don't think all the entries so far look like 'paintings' - some of them maybe do push the boundaries a little too far for my taste, but the majority I think are quite beleivable portraits. I think the important thing is that she looks great, and you can believe with enough good lighting and lots of makeup she could look like that.

[Ms Bay]

Caitlin, good suggestion. I, like you, went to Google and put in "glamour shots" and with the sites I went to, the photos looked lovely, but still looked like natural skin without the shadows and different colorizations of the skin as some air brushing and enhancing does do. They also did not have the extra smooth skin that make the models look unnaturally plastic. I'm by no means a pro at glamour shots and I probably don't have the expertise that some of the entrants do, and I did not say anyone was breaking any rules, I was just asking a question to make sure that I was doing the right thing. As I said before, the entries so far are beautiful and I wish everyone good luck. I think I'll just withdraw my entry and just enjoy the contest for other's interpretations and use the site for learning.

[Marthig]

Hi guys and gals !

I think we must not forget RULE #4 !? Let's just have fun doing whatever we think is the best method.

Before starting to work on any of these challenges or contests and after I have a sketch in my mind one of the nicest things I like to do is research for photos to use -most I don't but still pick them up- in a particular project, for this one I had zillions of pretty ladies with nice hair styles to "implant" in the model, now ... well I will try to fix her hair in the best possible way !

One thing that I am not sure you have noticed, the model has the most perfectly symetrical (1 or two "ms" ?) features I have encountered so far.

OK , thanks for reading my 2bits.

regards - Martha

OOPS "rule #4 - Have fun, is from another contest/challenge sorry about that TPaul .

[Caitlin]

Don't withdraw MsBay! Everyone's interpretations are different, and yours is just as valid as anyone else's! One thing I have noticed is a lot of people have made amendments to their entries already, so I think there is a lot of uncertainty about how to approach this one.

[cazubi]

I agree with Caitlin, MsBay, don't withdraw. Each piece is different and that is good. There are always going to be a big variety in styles and interpretations in these contests and differences of opinions.

Cathy

[TwinbNJ]

Why would anyone withdraw an entry? ---- I did mine as if I was doing one for myself. Now maybe I "cross" lines" at times -- but hey my grandchildren are going to think I was the most beautiful grandama! LOL

Now as far as "air" brushed skin -- OK go to google and do a search, then look at the cover of magazines at the grocery store ----- very different! LOL

I am not even going to bring up the children beauty pagents! Extra smooth skin, eye lashes and make up -- yup.

I say do what you feel makes this beautiful woman look glamourus --- that would make your entry you.

I did not do a search of how to make someone glamourus --- I just looked at a beautiful woman and went from there.

Best of luck to everyone === T- very nice challenge!

[T Paul]

When I think of Photo Art, I think of a photo that has been converted to look like art work in a variety of medium such as a watercolor, oil, pencil, charcoal and so on.

As for this contest, keeping it as a photo doesn’t mean it can’t have some flare to it. Many special effects that are created digitally can be achieved in regular photography through filters, darkroom techniques, backdrops, lighting, special film and so on.

Some possibilities are:

Black & White
Sepia tone or other tinted tone
Dreamy Photo (Soft Blur)
High Key
Low Key
Double Exposures
Infrared
Warm tones/Cool tones
Silhouettes
Panning and other techniques to create movement
and many more

There also might be some confusion in that you can add make-up, touch up hair, smooth skin, retouch the face, change the background, change the color of the clothes, and even resize some facial features while still keeping the image a photograph. This is a "glamour" retouch.

Here are some sites with some Before and After samples:
Glamour Retouching
Touch of Glamour
Digital Retouch
Glitter Guru
Beauty Retouching
Photo Retouching Tutorials

[Kraellin]

i think the bottom line here is 'do you recognize what you see here as basically a photograph with some enhancements or as something else?'

take it the other way around. let's say you take a picture of a kabuki actor all made up in heavy covering. now, let's say you took that same person in that same pose but without the makeup and then added it yourself in photoshop to look exactly the same as the first one. and bringing it a little closer to home, let's say this model in the contest was all done up by a professional stylist, makeup artist and dressmaker and the cameraman used a number of camera tricks to make things even better still. it's all doctored, but it was done before the shot was taken. and trust me, i know some folks who could do this and you'd believe it was photo art.

the thing is, 'glamour photography' IS very much like 'photo art'. you could almost call it a sub-division of photo art. and that may be where the confusion lies. the difference, to me, is, when i look at the final rendering does it look more like an art piece or a photograph. and in all the entries i've seen thus far, they all qualify [u[primarily[/u] as photographs. there is a line you might cross and i can certainly understand msbay wanting a better definition of where that line is for her own entry. as you can see from my own question in earlier posts, i thought T Paul had moved that line. he didnt, but i thought he had. i think msbay is looking at the same question; where do you draw that line. it's a fair question.

Craig

[Caitlin]

I agree it is very confusing! For instance Flora just posted an entry and made the comment "I know I bent the rules a bit with her hair" and I thought "huh??". Putting her in a purple wig may be bending the rules, just giving her a neater hairdo is quite the opposite - it's exactly what 'Glamour Photography' should be I think - taking away the imperfections, and 'tarting you up' a bit, and more too possibly. I think it'll be a real shame if people are scared to make 'artistic alterations', in order to make it a more attractive and glamourous photographic image. Now, as some one has already mentioned, then there's that kid's peagent stuff - that's in another ball park again - from what I've seen sometimes VERY un-photographic looking.

[Caitlin]

Looking at the entries so far I guess I'm a bit surprised that only one so far has tried to complete the top of the lady's hair. So just wanted to confirm that doing so, and for instance changing the dress to be more 'glamourous' are appropriate in this contest?

[Kraellin]

ya know, i think we can overthink this. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck

the ONLY real criteria was 'keep it as a photo'. so, if it looks like a photo...

Craig

[T Paul]

Quack, Quack....

Originally Posted by T Paul

You can add make-up, touch up hair, smooth skin, retouch the face, change the background, change the color of the clothes, and even resize some facial features while still keeping the image a photograph. This is a "glamour" retouch.