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Contests Retouching contests to challenge your skills and learn from others. Prizes for the winners!

Nov 05 Contest Discussion

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  #51  
Old 11-04-2005, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kschulz
Ok, the rule-questioning door has been cracked open, so I have to let myself in. The rules state "...to restore the photo..." then further on "...use the various retouching/restoring/compositing skills...".

A strict definition of "restore" is to accurately and faithfully reconstruct the original photograph, the goal being to recreate the photo to it's original form as closely as possible. This means no vignetting, no altering of the background, no props, no color changes, etc. if not part of the original. Anything else constitutes a "retouch", "manipulation", or "substantive modification".

Are we looking for the best "restoration" (a la Fratelli Alinari), or the best "retouch/manipulation/restoration"?

- Kurt
This is a very good and fair question. This contest was intended to be a faithful reconstruction of the original photograph with the goal being to recreate the photo back to it's original form. That being said, personally I don't see any problem adding a vignette or performing minor retouching to salvage the photo, but I would try to keep as true to the original as possible.
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  #52  
Old 11-04-2005, 09:20 PM
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Working long hours and a bit tired tonight, so I will have to tackle the rest of the questions tomorrow.

Night
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  #53  
Old 11-04-2005, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Paul
This is a very good and fair question. This contest was intended to be a faithful reconstruction of the original photograph with the goal being to recreate the photo back to it's original form. That being said, personally I don't see any problem adding a vignette or performing minor retouching to salvage the photo, but I would try to keep as true to the original as possible.
Ah - well there you go, that wasn't my interpretation! Seems just saying restore this picture, might have been simpler in that case.

ps. I know we were supposed to 'put a lid on it', but T Paul having answered has put another spin on it for me. I guess I was expecting something more along Doug's line of - 'do what you think the mum/dad would like'. What the end goal is, rather than how it is to be acheived, seems easier to define.

Last edited by Caitlin; 11-04-2005 at 09:27 PM.
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  #54  
Old 11-04-2005, 10:11 PM
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I don't want people to be afraid to ask questions, but then I don't want people to get upset by the answers.....

All in all I think for the challenges the end goal was best described as....

Quote:
You are a professional retoucher. Do what you think you should to please your client.
I try to give a simple description to get you in the right direction, but at the same time not limit your creativity. Some contests are geared towards manipulations, some towards art, some towards restoring and so on.

So that being said, approach each contest as you see fit, use your judgement. Ask questions (brace yourself for the answers), submit your entries (cross your fingers), and wait for the results.

Last edited by T Paul; 11-04-2005 at 11:31 PM. Reason: typo
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  #55  
Old 11-04-2005, 10:25 PM
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I think we need to come to an understanding of what "definition" means. Do we want an explicit etymological deconstruction of the term, or rather shall we try to reach a concensus on the term as a contruct, an ad hoc agreement having no hold in any outside context?

(And, for the silly-impaired: this is a joke. Not a great joke, but I enjoyed it)
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  #56  
Old 11-05-2005, 12:01 AM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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for myself, what is needed and wanted is to have the moderator or whoever is posting the current contest to take the role of the client. what specificially does the client want? and, if the client doesnt particularly wish to be very specific, then that's fine also, but it shld be specified. this takes the voting out of the role of everyone being the client when they vote. we then become 'quality control' rather than the client and are judging each other's entries based on the needs and wants of the client and the quality of the work done.

whenever i see the word 'restore' it has a specific meaning to me. take it back to its original state. period! if the original state was black and white, then make it black and white and dont colorize it. if it had props in it then restore the props. if it didnt, then no props shld be added. putting the qualifier in of something like 'to a studio quality image' only makes sense after 'restore' IF the original was 'studio quality'.

thus, when i vote on a restore, i vote based on the word 'restore'. if something extra has been added, no matter how well everything is done, then it hasnt met the criteria. if something is left out, then it's still the same thing. it's not truly restored to its original state.

you gotta remember here that we're artistic, fussy folks. we deal in megapixels pixel by pixel some of us. we deal in dust motes, and tiny scratches, and being zoomed in 10x while wearing reading glasses and sometimes using magnifying glasses on the monitor. so, it's no surprise to me that we tend to take the rules the same way.

see, in a restore, there is no 'creativity' per se. it's not a 'creative' challenge like a photo art or photo manipulation. it's more a technical thing. so, allowing 'creative leeway' in a restore is confusing somewhat. sure, some folks are going to miss something here or add something there in the technical performance of the restore, but adding props is 'creative leeway' and photo manipulation, not truly restoration. and i think that's where the confusion is coming in on this one. someone sees 'to studio quality' or ' that mom and pop would enjoy' and this immediately allows 'creative leeway' in the minds of the reader and somewhat conflicts with the definition of 'restore'. so, voting time comes around and joe likes the red balloon that's been added and votes for it, but sally says 'that's not a restore' and doesnt vote for it.

now, we all know what 'restore' means, but qualifiers were added, or at least some read these as qualifiers. i didnt. so, come time to vote and i would vote based on how i read the rules. so, i like the idea of having keywords. 'restore' would be one. if a qualifier were added like 'restore with creative leeway', that would mean something more lenient than a true, pure, restore.

basically, we simply want to know what does the client really want here. is creative interpretation desired, or does the client just want a simple, pure restore? that's all.

Craig
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  #57  
Old 11-05-2005, 01:29 AM
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I'm guessing mum and dad wouldnt mind the removal of baby drool Then again, I'm not a mum and not that way inclined at all, so I'm totally stabbing in the dark. Something I will think about when I'm done restoring heh.

I think T has made the rules crystal clear now, restore the photo back to its original state to the best of your ability, however the minor retouching that the studio might do, is allowed.
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  #58  
Old 11-05-2005, 01:53 AM
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Customer: I'd like my steak medium rare
Waiter: Now, when you say medium rare, what do you mean?
Customer: I like it to be a pink on the inside
Waiter: But how pink do you want it to be? And how deep do you mean when you say "on the inside"?
Customer: I dunno, I like it definitely pink, but not bloody, and more towards the center than the edges
Waiter: So, definitely pink, and not light red? Or reddish brown? And can you give me an actual measurement of how far from the edge the pink needs to be?
Customer: I'm going to Denny's

One facet of professionalism is being able to intuit what the customer wants based on judgement and experience, in spite of any possible vagueness or mis-statements by the customer (quoting myself from an email exchange on this very subject).

I will admit to being puzzled as to why the contests get mired in pedantry, while the challenge rules get ignored wholesale.
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  #59  
Old 11-05-2005, 02:31 AM
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Ording a steak is very different.
Chances are, you know your steak, you know what medium rare should be, the waiter doesnt care at all, he just tells the chef 1 steak medium rare. The chef being a qualified professional, knows what medium rare should be. You may have a personal preference to exactly how you like your steak cooked but since you're in a restaurant and instructions are delivered inpersonally via a mediator who likely couldnt give a rats ass if you enjoy your meal, you'll get that chefs version of medium rare, which means you'll get a steak, brown on the outside and somewhat pink in the middle, if your steak is cooked through or bleeding in the middle, you'd be perfectly entitled to send it back.
Maybe If you could talk to the chef directly and you were his only customer, you could get something closer to the 'medium rare' you prefer.
Also, rare, medium rare and well done are generally accepted descriptions for the cooking of your steak that are constant in pretty much any english speaking restaurant.
Well done - properly cooked like any other piece of meat
medium - brown on the outside but slightly pink in the middle - no blood
rare - its still mooing.

This is completely different, we get one shot at this - one entry per person. T cant send our entries back to the kitchen if we havent done what she wanted. And generally we're not using single phrase descriptors that have the same meaning accross the globe.
I do discuss with clients their requirements so I can get it right first time and not have to spend lots of going back to the drawing board or disappointing clients when they dont get what they wanted.
I was once of the client end of this process, I wanted a pciture of my grandma restored and colourised for a present for my grandpa, there was no interaction with the retoucher, he went ahead and what I got back was awful! He made my dear beloved grandma look like a hooker, I was outraged, but he couldnt see anything wrong with the picture he sent me, he couldnt understand why I was so upset. Now to me, if I got a request to colourise a picture I would do so to the best of my ability and as faithfully as I could not slap gallons of digital makeup on the subject, obviously he had a different idea of what colourise meant. If he had just asked, then we wouldnt have had the problem, and he would have got paid and I wouldnt have been angry.
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  #60  
Old 11-05-2005, 02:48 AM
Shalford Shalford is offline
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Is it not time now to put the efforts into the contest !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The weathers very mild for this time of year.
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