Nov 05 Contest Discussion

[T Paul]

Add your comments, questions or general discussion about the Nov Contest entries as well as the contest itself here. This is also a great place to share your techniques or ask others about theirs.

[Kraellin]

i see you've given us another easy one....not! i'm beginning to believe that most of the challenge/contest moderators around here are sadists of course, that makes all of us working on it, masochists. a tricky image indeed! shld be fun.

Craig

[T Paul]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

i will most likely change this at some point, but if i cant i'll just live with this one.

oh, and you need to include the actual deadline time, T. you've got the voting date, but not the cutoff for entry time.

Craig

edit: replaced my first with this current one. may happen yet again

You might want to double check the rules...

Originally Posted by T Paul

Nov Restoration Challenge:

THE RULES:

1. Contest will run from 1 Nov to 23 Nov 2005. Deadline for entries is 6pm EST 23 Nov 2005.

[Marthig]

I have to complain , I know am not skilled but I refuse to enter a contest that calls for retouching this (see attachment) ... and from that come up with a baby like the one shown by Craig ??

[T Paul]

The best way to download the images is by rightclicking (or Cmd/Ctrl clicking) on the link and using "Save Target As".

[Marthig]

OK I am sorry. First for making a comment at the posting thread and second about the complaint, guess I am too sleepy and wasn't doing it right
Now I downloaded it.
Thank you T Paul !!

[T Paul]

You're welcome

[Kraellin]

sorry T. one of these days i'll learn to read.

Craig

[byRo]

Originally Posted by Marthig

I have to complain , I know am not skilled but I refuse to enter a contest that calls for retouching this (see attachment) ... and from that come up with a baby like the one shown by Craig ??

Hope this isn't against the rules!
Just had to help a bit - Try turning it sideways - See it now?


Rô

[Legacy~Art]

I am abit confused here, when i downloaded it, it was a picture of a baby, did i download the wrong one?

[Caitlin]

That 5mb tif file seems to have a lot of jpg artifacting in it. Is it meant to be that way??

[kschulz]

Caitlin - 5MB? I downloaded the 8MB file - there doesn't seem to be any JPEG artifacts (and there shouldn't be, given that its a TIFF file, unless it was resaved from a JPEG ). But, there is something like a matte texture to the surface that is a part of the actual photo. Just makes it more fun...

- Kurt

[Kraellin]

caitlin,

i noticed that too. to me it seemed like the hi-res scan had picked up the paper texture and i went 'oh oh, looks like an FFT job'. so, i worked on the smaller-res scan

Craig

[Caitlin]

Originally Posted by kschulz

Caitlin - 5MB? I downloaded the 8MB file - there doesn't seem to be any JPEG artifacts (and there shouldn't be, given that its a TIFF file, unless it was resaved from a JPEG ). But, there is something like a matte texture to the surface that is a part of the actual photo. Just makes it more fun...

- Kurt

Sorry - I meant 8mb... I think it must be a jpg resaved as TIF? See attached

[twinkissed]

I know it says no whacky backgrounds but I didn't think adding the toys would be since a lot of professional photos have props. Still, if it is where it doesn't qualify, please let me know so I can change it. Although, I'll miss the cute little ducky LOL

Still if someone could let me know either way that would be great. It's my first time entering in one of these things.

[byRo]

Originally Posted by Caitlin

... I think it must be a jpg resaved as TIF? See attached

Exactly.....the luminosity is in 8 * 8 blocks, the colours in 16 * 16 blocks and they both start counting exactiy at the top left corner....A "perfect" low-quality jpg.

Now, mix that with a 4.5 pixel wide paper texture...

...no problem .

Rô

[byRo]

Originally Posted by rules

This means a non-painted no-wacky-background something-a-dad/mom-would-put-on-his/her-desk-at-work portrait ....Questions?

Wow, T, didn't know you were a lawyer.

But, yes, I do have a question. A professional studio photo when it gets to the hands of dad/mom, may have some treatment already done - such as vignetting. If, as I believe, this too should not be allowed, then there may be a need to introduce a supplementary "straight-out-of-the-camara" clause.

Rô

[kschulz]

Originally Posted by rules

The challenge this month is to restore the photo so that it looks like a professional studio photo. This means a non-painted no-wacky-background something-a-dad/mom-would-put-on-his/her-desk-at-work portrait that actually tries to use the various retouching/restoring/compositing skills we try to promote here at RP". Questions?

Ok, the rule-questioning door has been cracked open, so I have to let myself in. The rules state "...to restore the photo..." then further on "...use the various retouching/restoring/compositing skills...".

A strict definition of "restore" is to accurately and faithfully reconstruct the original photograph, the goal being to recreate the photo to it's original form as closely as possible. This means no vignetting, no altering of the background, no props, no color changes, etc. if not part of the original. Anything else constitutes a "retouch", "manipulation", or "substantive modification".

Are we looking for the best "restoration" (a la Fratelli Alinari), or the best "retouch/manipulation/restoration"?

- Kurt

[twinkissed]

That's what I needed to hear Kurt, I just wasn't comprehending I guess. Ok, back to the drawing board.

[Doug Nelson]

This monthly nitpickfest is going to cost us all a great moderator. And if T quits, no more contests (because she's far more patient than I am).

[Shalford]

I for one would hate to be in T Pauls shoes.
Come on guys give her a break.
I know people are trying to clarify rules to the letter, but it's not that sort of contest. It's fun and learning!

It must be so time consuming, even soul destroying, but maybe sometimes rewarding.

Let's just do what we always do, submit our entries and go for it!
If people like it, then they'll vote for it.

T.Paul - I think I speak for all members who have enjoyed your forums and contests,

THANK YOU,

[byRo]

In my "door-opening" post above I was only trying to be helpful (really!). As I know from other experiences, and as has already happened here in other contests, what starts out as a just a nit can grow to an elephant by the end of a contest.

I was trying to nip the nit in the bud.

Now walking through Kurt's open door and coming back to an old point.......
Wouldn't it be easier if we had some very well-defined keywords? That way T wouldn't have to spell it all out every month. So she could just say....

Restoration - yes;
Reconstruction - yes;
Retouch - yes;
Manipulation - no;
Art - no;
etc..

..and if anyone has any questions - just refer them to the "official RetouchPRO glossary".

As always, I am here to help - so if T needs/wants some, she can always count on me.

Rô
[edit - I second Shalford]

[chrishoggy]

Originally Posted by Doug Nelson

This monthly nitpickfest is going to cost us all a great moderator. And if T quits, no more contests (because she's far more patient than I am).

Must agree, thats why I have stopped entering . Best bet is to read the rules, then work from what you understand the rules to be.
Fingers crossed the rules matter can be dropped, and people can get back to having fun in contests

[kschulz]

Ohhh boy. Doug, I really hesitated posting my question for fear that someone might perceive it to be nitpicking, given the sensitivity we've seen in past contests. Guess I should've heeded. OTOH, it's a shame we now have to feel like we're walking on egg shells.

Really, I'm not debating or arguing a position, I'm not questioning anybody's interpretation, I'm not trying to pin T to the mat on the rules, and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to drop out by my asking, especially T . Just looking for a simple answer to what I believed to be a simple question.

If you deem this to be nitpicking, ok fine by me. Let's ignore the question and move on. The take away? No more questions - whatsoever - about the rules in the future.

Twin Kissed - please don't change anything in your entry based on my post. I was only looking for the same clarification as you and Rô.

- Kurt

[twinkissed]

Ok WOAH!!!! Hold up.... while I may misunderstand things here and there, I'm sure I'm not the only one and I had noooooo idea that by me asking a question to make sure I was in the guidelines would be a problem. I was under the impression that that is what this topic was for. It even says that help and suggestions from others is encouraged so how would that make us lose a moderator? Anyone could have helped me with my question. Maybe I'm not quite awake enough today to understand this whole nitpick thing but I personally didn't see any nit picking going on. I saw questions and a little humor. What did I miss? As for it's for fun and learning. That's why I asked a question, I want to do it the right way and learn through doing it the right way. By asking my question, someone highlighted the part I had over looked and I was glad to see that. If it didn't have rules it wouldn't be much of a contest and if questions couldnt' be asked about the rules it wouldn't be much of a challenge because you could do anything to the pictures. I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding but I don't think there was ever an issue to begin with and I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

I'm adding this... sometimes when people read things it seems different than meant. I am not mad or being sarcastic but speaking from how I feel. No one is to take this as a personal attack ok?

[twinkissed]

Originally Posted by kschulz

Twin Kissed - please don't change anything in your entry based on my post. I was only looking for the same clarification as you and Rô.

No worries, I was glad you helped me out. I had fun redoing it and ended up liking it more.

[Doug Nelson]

I doubt anyone that hasn't done it can fully appreciate how draining it is to be a moderator. And the reason we have moderators is because I couldn't take the drain on my own. It has nothing to do with taking anything personally, just the day-in day-out grind. But our mods are resigning, one by one. I've left some of them listed as mods, but that's pure denial on my part.

I wrote the contest description, not T. These contests are primarily aimed at professionals (the "pro" in RetouchPRO), though everyone is welcome to enter. But interpreting a customer's instructions is as necessary a professional skill as cloning or masking.

So there's no need to "walk on eggshells", just be professional.

[NancyJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Nelson

I wrote the contest description, not T. These contests are primarily aimed at professionals (the "pro" in RetouchPRO), though everyone is welcome to enter. But interpreting a customer's instructions is as necessary a professional skill as cloning or masking.

So its unprofessional to ask for clarification of clients instructions? Thats all anyone was doing.

[smats]

I don't think this has to be so difficult. Vote as YOU think the entries are according to your interpretation of the rules.
You don't have to vote for an entry if it does not live up to your interpretation of the rules. Even if it is an wonderful artwork.
And in this case I think a parent would like his/her baby to look unmanipulated/not visibly retouched.

Keep up the good work managing this site!

Best Regards Mats

[Gary Richardson]

Why do we get this every month. Someone or other nitpicking on how the rules should be interpreted. What does it matter. Everyone will interpret things differently, and everyone will be right, as far as they're concerned.

Just post your images. If members like it, they will vote for it (as determined by their individual interpretations of the rules) if not, they won't.

I enjoy the contests for what they were designed to be, a free exchange of imagination and technique, where we could each enjoy and learn from other's skills. If its just going to descend into a bitching contest, I for one will soon be stopping my entries (no great loss some may think).

Give the moderators a break, and for once just enter the contest, interpret the rules as YOU understand them, and live with the results.

Gary.