Mar 06 Contest Discussion

[studioj]

I would preffer black background on the car, but rules are rules.

Also it was for a catalog, and most catalogs are done in White background, ok, this was a great contest

[Retouchpix]

hi, I'm new in here
Just saw the contest yesterday and started working on it immediately. I couldn't decide if I should go for tinted or plain windows.. the tinted ones would hide the details inside, so eventually I decided to go for a bit of both
The entries so far are amazing, its going to be real hard to judge.. hehe

[Gary Richardson]

Haven't had time this month to enter the contest, but I'd just like to express my admiration of all the entries I've seen.

Not an easy one by any means, with so many lights and reflections to remove and harmonise. T has definitely been mixing with the wrong sorts of people (Ro), and has picked up a sadistic streak I never knew she had.

Good luck everybody, hope to be able to take part in next months contest.

[Peth]

Nice to have you here. I've just seen your website... very nice work indeed.

[Pocoroba]

I've never had so much fun assembling 83 Photoshop layers before...

I think the reason I was so merge-resistant was because I knew it would make a cool Flash layer-based animation after the fact. If only I coulld post a 3.6 MB file here.

All in all, a great contest!

[HannibalVector]

Originally Posted by Pocoroba

To prepare the 1999 Ferrari 355 Spider for the catalog listing.........

Its not a Spider, it is a Ferrari 355 F1 Berlinetta!

I would like to see your Flash animation though! Maybe you can upload it to an imagehost or something.

[Pocoroba]

I stand corrected. The Spider is a convertible and the Berlinetta is the hardtop version of the same car.

Thanks for that clarification!

I'll make the Flash file available via email to anyone who would like a copy.

[Pocoroba]

Hello all,

Just to let you know that the Flash animation of the Ferrari retouching is available via FTP. It's a 4.62 MB Zip archive located at:

ftp.smithphoto.com
User: retouch
Password: ferrari

For best appearance, scale your browser window so the car appears to be about 800 px wide, like the entries.
Enjoy!

[Pocoroba]

Thought the members might like to see a vehicle that was just shot in our studio. No street had to be taken off the car. It's just a studio lit shot. Almost no retouching here except the shadow (rendered from the existing shadow), details inside the grill and a couple of minor reflections removed.

[Peth]

For your detailed and knowledgable comments. There's no doubting your expertise in this area.

However I absolutely must take issue with your comment on borrowed items. You are correct to say it's common practice but I need to point out that if it was indeed for a catalogue than it's intended to aid in the sale of the vehicle. Therefore any retouching that doesn't represent the true nature of the vehicle would be counted as misrepresentation and open to court action... certainly in New Zealand. Imagine if someone came to buy the vehicle off the catalogue and the dash unit that was depicted in the picture didn't exist on the car. IN my country you could be up for a $70,000 commerce commission fine (including the company that retouched the car!). I'm sure the US must have similar guidelines.

If Infinites entry (or mine for that matter - as I replaced the tyres rather badly) was done for Ferrari as a client they would have spotted the rogue elements in an instant. Of course if the entries were purely for art's sake then we could be more relaxed. BY the way Infinite, I really liked yor entry which is why you got the mention.

The same theory can be applied to colour in some cases although this can be more forgiving. I agree that any colour can look lighter or darker depending on how it is lit this is something I have used to great effect in my work for Chrysler, Jeep and BMW. However this car was theoretically shot in a white studio and therefore the colour would naturally be lighter rather than darker. It's not impossible to get that effect through the lens but it's rare.

Just so you all don't get the idea that I'm talking through a hole in my rear end, I'm a Senior Art Director in the BBDO advertising network with 18 years experience. I'm not a professional retoucher, in fact I'm very much a hobbyist. But I do sit with and direct retouchers on a daily basis. If they get it wrong, I'm accountable.

Hannibal, I thought your entry was superb and if you ever choose to come to New Zealand's beautiful shores I wouldn't hesitate to hire your services. You are a true talent in my books. Mate, it's my job to be harsh.

Don't paticularly wish to start an arguement but this place is about learning isn't it? I only hope that I can learn enough to be as good as blokes like Hannibal in the future. I also want to point out that everyone here has different strengths and this is but one discipline. I have visited many of your websites and been very impressed by your work. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

T Paul, great contest... loved it and learned heaps. Look forward to your next task. Thanks for your work, we all appreciate it.

[Pocoroba]

Good comments!

In a past life I also wore the hat of Art Director and I know what you mean when you talk about directing retouchers. I'm on the receiving end of that now and have been since I tired of the corporate grind. Prior to that, I was a lowly graphic designer and illustrator, which made it natural for me to go into retouching, which I began with a Paasche AB! haha

We'll agree to disagree on the interior. It's within the art director's license to make sure that if he chose to repurpose a photo that formerly had an occupant, to make sure the formerly obscured area that was restored was accurately represented in retouching. I've had to do this in photo compositions where perhaps a label was partially hidden and then had to be reconstructed. I'm referring to product photography for major corporations, and in my opinion, this is the same thing. I found a 355 at the same angle and "comped in" the area, as I would a label, etc.

By the way, the animation from the Photoshop layers now includes the driver's window "rolling up". I initially hadn't planned a window but one of our photographers who shoots a lot of the Toyota work saw it and said "there wouldn't be an open window in a shot like that", so I put it in...

Have a nice day!

[InfiniteMonkey]

I've not so much stirred one up as wacked it with a stick and shouted obscenities at it. I'm sorry if my attempt at manipulating the interior has caused such offense. It was never my intention.
In your argument Peth, you are absolutely correct, there's a very fine line between manipulating an image to enhance it's features and out and out lying to decieve the viewer. With specific legal ramifications, wherever you are and whoever you are dealing with.
At the time I was wondering wether to insert the interior or not, but I thought it was an important message to address and i'm glad you picked up on it (guess that's why they pay you the BIG money!) ;-) When does retouching become manipulation? and at what point does manipulation turn to the dark side.
You made a very valid point, but, I believe, one which is ultimately mis-guided. This is an established technique and not one that should be criticised. In this instance the choice of interior was only selected due to timescales and the limitations of the internet. For a start, I wasn't sure what ferrari it was, which didn't help. Have you any idea how many images come up if you type Ferrari in 'google images'! I wasn't happy with the interior, and rather than make something up, which I knew the client (retouchpro) wouldn't be happy with, I chose to insert a new one (thanks Pocoroba for the defend!).
In live conditions, working for clients such as ferrari, I'm sure they would have better stock art, than some snapshot of a guy driving down a street in new york. If an interior needed to be inserted, a genuine interior would not be difficult to locate and would be insisted upon, both by myself and by the client. As this contest was just for 'Arts Sake', I didn't see the harm in including the interior to make the point.
I've been retouching cars for over 15 years now and have worked on projects with Ford, Range Rover and several Automotive magazines and this is not the first time I have been asked to doctor the originality of a photoshoot. Each time, this was never done behind the clients back, in the hope they wouldn't notice. In most cases it was the entire reason they were employing my services.
I'm glad the issue is out in the open and I appreciate your candour and believe me, no offense has been taken. I'm just interested to hear what other people have to say on the subject.

[Peth]

No mate, I'm sure you haven't offended anybody. I appreciate both yours and Pocoroba's comments. You both have very valid points. let's leave it there.

As to the big bucks? I only wish they were enough to buy a Ferrari... even an old one!

As you were.

[Retouchpix]

just wish I had come across this site sooner...
and membership is free... hope it stays that way.
This is the first time I'm entering a 'contest' and I must admit it has been a wonderful learning experience. Getting to know how different people view a piece of work, points for and against it, the details they notice. in this case the car retouch work was a real toughie. But the reponses have been awesome and most importantly, I learned a lot too by comparing my work with the others, shows where all I can improve more and what all I missed.
will make it a point to take part as often as possible.

I have just been into retouching for almost 5 years now... started at a photo studio restoring photographs... 3 years there, then moved into Y&R as a retoucher for 1 and half years. Then I got married and moved into a sister concern of Y&R in another state (to be with my husband)... been here since. Been learning from the first day I started working and I am still doing so now after about 5 years .

simply adore this job...

[Pocoroba]

Shot this morning for Toyota. For those who haven't had "exposure" to studio-lit auto photography.

(uploading without the original ICC profile - a 204k file with that - makes the image pretty density-heavy but it is a black car.)