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May 06 Contest Discussion

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  #91  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:14 PM
Doug Colwell Doug Colwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lopes
I think so.

My approach will be: of all these images which one, at least to me, most resembles a pencil drawing? And, if there are several, which ones do I like the most?
That's why I'm wondering if we're comparing apples and oranges. Pencil drawings can't help but resemble pencil drawings.
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  #92  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:34 PM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Personally, I dont think drawing it on paper and scanning it in should count. To me drawing with a real pencil and scanning it does not consitute a digital graphite pencil sketch - the rules are quite clear about the digital part. And while anything viewed on a computer is technically digital, its certainly not, in my opinion, in the 'spirit' of the rules or the purpose of the competition.

I still think craig scanned his but he said he didnt so I have to believe him :p
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  #93  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:46 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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doug,

i'd say i have to agree with frank on this one. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then we dont really care how it became a duck

but my concern is, does everyone know what a duck looks like? what does a pencil sketch look like? what are the source references we'll all be drawing on when doing our work and when it comes time to vote? what are the differences between how a graphite stick looks and a number 2 pencil or a number 4 pencil or even a mechanical pencil or one of those big carpenter pencils. and how many are familiar with smudging pencil or wet smudging and other techniques i probably dont even know about. and what about graphite dust techniques? all would be legitmate to me. but i'm also no expert, so my references for drawing upon to vote are going to be somewhat limited, which may wrongfully disqualify someone in my mind. and i have to wonder about the same for others.

now, T and other admins, please dont take this as a 'oh lord, here we go again' i reiterate, i think the rules are fine. i think this isnt so serious as to be life threatening or prize threatening. we just like to discuss. we, as artists and technicians are highly ... technical. we deal with minutiae every day in the work we do. altering a few pixels at a time out of millions in a file is the bread and butter of what we do. so, it shldnt be too surprising that we're going to do the same in something like a contest discussion. it's the nature of the retouch beast

anyways, if any of you folks have actual pencil sketches in digital form, real ones scanned into the computer, and would care to post them up in this thread, i'd love to see them, particularly any that vary from something like a number 2 pencil sketch. and, since part of this discussion has touched on pen sketches, if you have any of those to offer up here as a comparison to pencil, that might be helpful also.

craig
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  #94  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:47 PM
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byRo byRo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Colwell
....and simply drawing with pencil and paper and scanning afterwards.
This is T's call, not mine, but I can't see this being accepted as a valid entry to the contest.

Many digital artists do sketch out their ideas on paper an scan them into the computer - but from there on in, it's all digital.

Interesting point though.

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  #95  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
now, T and other admins, please dont take this as a 'oh lord, here we go again'
I have often said that the contest discussions are more valuable than the actual contest.

This is just another case. Until the contest got under way, everybody knew what a pencil sketch was - now we all have to think it over.

To me this is a GOOD THING.

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  #96  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:58 PM
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Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
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So a digital pencil is one you hold with your fingers?
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  #97  
Old 05-14-2006, 03:00 PM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
anyways, if any of you folks have actual pencil sketches in digital form, real ones scanned into the computer, and would care to post them up in this thread, i'd love to see them, particularly any that vary from something like a number 2 pencil sketch. and, since part of this discussion has touched on pen sketches, if you have any of those to offer up here as a comparison to pencil, that might be helpful also.

craig
Shame my parents have all my old pieces
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  #98  
Old 05-14-2006, 03:02 PM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Nelson
So a digital pencil is one you hold with your fingers?
not necessarily but I dont think its unfair to stipulate that a digital pencil sketch should have to have been created digitally.
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  #99  
Old 05-14-2006, 03:03 PM
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Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
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My brain hurts
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  #100  
Old 05-14-2006, 03:14 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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lol. ok, now i'm in trouble, especially with nancyj. sorry, nancy, i was playing a semantics game with you. i never said i didnt draw mine in real pencil. i just said i wished i could do it that well.... a bit of word trickery to throw you off. but i shld know i cant fool a true artist like yourself.

so, let me fess up here. i was going to wait till after the voting, but it would seem some have objections to this bit of digital trickery. frankly, i thought it was darned clever, but if it's going to cause a stir i'm willing to withdraw my entry.

what i did was print out the original photo. i then put another piece of paper on top and traced things a bit with a real #2 pencil. it was pretty rough, but that's all i wanted. i didnt want an exact, fine tracing. besides, i could barely see through the paper since i had no tracing paper. and i did then scan the rough trace back into the computer.

but, what you see as my entry is not just this tracing. it's just one layer. i had done many other edge type experiments when first working with the image. i took one of these that looked far more like a pen drawing and overlaid my tracing with this. i then blended the two with some blend mode...soft light, i think. copy merge and then did a bit of hand work to smooth out some rough areas.

now, i do not think this was a cheat. one, i'm a lousy, real sketching type person. i'm just no good at it. two, the way the rules were presented said you're given an image to work with to make a pencil sketch. the client doesnt care HOW you got there; they just want a good finished product. and to me, that means, anything goes as long as the client is happy.

so, nancy, forgive me for my deception. the only reason i didnt say how i'd done this was the surprise factor. i just wanted to create a bit of an effect with 'how clever i'd been'. but it seems i've outsmarted myself here. i shld have known i wouldnt be able to fool a real sketch artist. and congratulations on ferreting this out.

by the way, here is the first line of the contest rules, which is what i was going by:
Quote:
The client: A mother has brought you this photo of her daughter and wants it turned into a graphite pencil sketch.
craig
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