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May 06 Contest Discussion

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  #41  
Old 05-07-2006, 08:31 AM
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T Paul T Paul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
i also got this wild idea...what if the rest of us, contestants and not, started evaluating entries ahead of the vote...here in the discussion thread...

anyways, it's just a thought

craig
I would love to see the Discussion Thread evolve into this. There are contests out there where entries are posted and critiqued then the contestants resubmit their entries based on the comments for the final vote.

Not only is it a great way to learn how your ideas come across to others, but also a practice in editing when you make the suggested changes to improve your original entry. At that forum, egos don't appear to be an issue, because everyone is expecting suggestions on how to improve their entry and want those suggestions in order to make their entry as strong as possible.
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  #42  
Old 05-07-2006, 10:16 AM
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TwinbNJ TwinbNJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Paul
I would love to see the Discussion Thread evolve into this. There are contests out there where entries are posted and critiqued then the contestants resubmit their entries based on the comments for the final vote.

Not only is it a great way to learn how your ideas come across to others, but also a practice in editing when you make the suggested changes to improve your original entry. At that forum, egos don't appear to be an issue, because everyone is expecting suggestions on how to improve their entry and want those suggestions in order to make their entry as strong as possible.
I post in a photo group that does this for their contest and it is very helpful. I don't think I have ever seen anyone take an attitude when critiqued. The critiques are clear with suggestions on how to imporve the shot. Other times people will point out that the image just does not meet the challenge and why, in their opinion, it does not fit. I think it would be a great addition to this contest.

I showed Jean (my twin) my entry for this contest and she wasted no time critiqueing it. I already posted my entry and am still debating weather to make the changes Jean suggested. Of course her suggestions are helpful and what area's she pointed out that need work are correct. When you work on something for a while you miss areas and may over process - it's good to have another set of eyes take a look! LOL

Last edited by TwinbNJ; 05-07-2006 at 10:21 AM.
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  #43  
Old 05-07-2006, 10:32 AM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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gigadals,

like i said in the original post on this, i havent seen anyone's in this contest that doesnt qualify so far. so, rest easy

doug colwell,

you're probably right. the idea is to enter, to participate, to put yourself out there regardless. folks can already be so shy about this sort of thing that any remarks construed as 'negative' could be enough to chase folks away and god forbid that a person entered and got 50 private messages telling them that their piece is no good. so i can see that unsolicited critques might not be a very good idea.

i guess it's sort of a case like we have on the forums here. in the art sections we generally dont pick apart someone's work for the most part, even if it's meant as a constructive criticism. most of the comments are 'i like this' or 'i like this part of this'. and if someone really wants a critique, why, we've got the critiques forum. so, i get your point.

still, in some of the former contests, i recall seeing a piece when entered and have gone, 'should i say something or not on this. i know it's not going to get a vote.'. and that was what i was trying to address; the idea that one could help a 'poorer' entry get better. but you're probably right; too many unsolicited comments might tend to squash someone, particularly if they're just starting out.

as for the graphite stick as opposed to the pencil, i'll expose my lack of formal training in that i'd never known there was a difference. interesting.

and doug colwell, that is a marvelous sketch! i do hope you're doing this stuff for a living.

T, i just read your post after writing all this stuff above here, and yes, that's sort of the idea i had in mind; an open critiquing discussion of the entries. you've put it better in that you dont just limit it to the 'poor' entries, which would then not single them out. i think that's what doug was saying too.

so, how does that work on that other forum? if you've got 50 entrants does everyone do 49 critiques or how does that work?

craig

Last edited by Craig Walters; 05-07-2006 at 12:02 PM.
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  #44  
Old 05-07-2006, 11:01 AM
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craig

On the forum for photo's I post to there is a thread to post your image asking for comments and/or suggestions. Then other members post their comments to your entry. Not everyone asks for suggestions - so it would only be for those who ask.

Here is an example of a shot I took for a challenge and asked for input.

http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=33580
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  #45  
Old 05-07-2006, 11:31 AM
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Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
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Like the idea of a critique based competition, sounds like a good way to learn.

TwinbNJ, love the photos, but have to disagree entirely with the poster at the other forum re your first photo. To me it has much more impact than the second, as it has atmosphere which the second doesn't. Due entirely to the drums, and the smoky atmosphere.

If you want a conventional shot of the singers face, by all means crop, but if you want a picture with atmosphere, leave it as is.

I agree that you should perhaps try having a look at it in B&W though.
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  #46  
Old 05-07-2006, 11:41 AM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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twinbnj,

thanks

and by the way, i LIKE that image you took. i would NOT change it to black and white. and i would NOT crop out the drums and so forth. you've followed the 'rule of thirds' quite nicely there. the drums, the smoke, the reddish/yellowish cast of the shot shows a low lighting type setting, which just adds to the dramatic nature here. you want all that ambience there. it's showing more than just the singer; it's showing a smoke filled, low lit, singer pouring his heart out, sweating, earthy, emotional scene. it's a GOOD shot!

the ONLY thing i might do with it is raise the lighting just a bit in order to see the singer better and then enhance all that ambience with some contrast, perhaps. it's a strong shot, quite dramatic and really well done. i could see blurring the background just a tiny bit, but that would be a preferences thing. the drums, smoke and all that are an integral part of that image and i wouldnt mess with it too much.

i also think it would be an interesting shot to play around with some dragan.

so, thanks for showing me that image. i love it. reminds me of my bar-hopping, concert going, rock and roll days

craig
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  #47  
Old 05-07-2006, 11:59 AM
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Colwell
Nancy. I agree that true black isn't possible with graphite but it can show very dark if you control the lighting and reflections that make them shiny. Here's an un-tweaked scan of a graphite stick sketch I did years ago (from a Julia Margaret Cameron photo) that shows quite black in some areas.
Doug,
Very nice!
~Nancy~
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  #48  
Old 05-07-2006, 12:39 PM
Doug Colwell Doug Colwell is offline
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Gary, Craig and I agree to disagree with Jill's Nerds photo critiquers, (I like the 1st best and wouldn't crop it), and that's where alot of the arguements will surface - between critiquers. This might be helpful for everyone but the person looking for clear direction as to how to improve his/her entry. But then again, the 'rules' in contests, art, photography, retouching and the like are always going to be a little contentious so maybe learning how to filter criticism and advice is also a skill that needs to be developed. You see, it's starting already - I'm conflicted!


Thanks Craig and Nancy for the compliment on my 'dirty girl' sketch - I think I moved into digital largely for the eaze of fixing stuff. If anyone here is so inclined, feel free to fix it.

Last edited by Doug Colwell; 05-07-2006 at 12:57 PM.
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  #49  
Old 05-07-2006, 01:21 PM
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Frank Lopes Frank Lopes is offline
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Just wondering...

There have been 36 entries in this month's contest and today is still the 7th.
If this pace continues, we'll have more than 100 entries. Which is terrific. The more the better.

Here comes the "but":

How do you effectively and fairly judge the best entries?

Do you tend to keep a "rolling" score of what has appeal to you and as long nothing better comes along, that is the winner?

Or do you wait until all the entries are in and then do your "due dilligence"?

Just wondering...

Last edited by Frank Lopes; 05-07-2006 at 02:13 PM.
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  #50  
Old 05-07-2006, 03:56 PM
Doug Colwell Doug Colwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lopes
How do you effectively and fairly judge the best entries?
For me I like to save and ignore them as they come in, and then go back and re-save the edits at the end. Then I sort them on the basic criteria (this month would be 'looks like photo' or 'looks like sketch'). After that I'm usually left with a 1/4 to a 1/2 that I slide show over and over to get my favourites, and then begin the tough slog of pinning down the five. I do try to suspend my personal preferences for style and such (or at least question them) but have to admit I'm not always successful.
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