Aug 07 Contest Discussion

[Ant]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

well, ant, yes, it is a lot of restoration. your point being? this is exactly the type of image that a lot of us work on every day. so, saying it's not worth doing seems a bit odd. that it's a poor file is exactly why it is a contest candidate.

as for calibration of monitors, i'd like to know specifically who here, since this is always a bit of a question mark here on RetouchPRO. do they not like my work because my monitor is off, their monitor is off or the work simply wasnt that good.

and as for the 'will never look really good' part, i disagree. i see a lot of good entries where the work does look good. that it may not be maxim magazine, cosmo, other glam mag good, that wasnt the point of the contest. in fact, the whole point was to make it look good without being of that type.

so, i dont quite follow your point here.

I didn't look at your entry, and I probably won't. If your monitor is not calibrated, you are making moves in the dark. Sure, you could do it by the numbers for an overall look, but what about balancing throughout? Can't do it.

Point is, it is a Beauty Retouch. The contest is not Restoration and beautify. The attempts here are one of Turd Polishing. No matter how much you shine it up, it's still a turd. The point of the contest is beauty, not turd portraiture. What point don't you get?

"i see a lot of good entries where the work does look good."

As a whole, no it doesn't, not one. The winner will be the cream of the crap, not a good restoration and retouch.

[Kraellin]

Point is, it is a Beauty Retouch. The contest is not Restoration and beautify.

no, the point is exactly that T-Paul said:

* Color correct the provided photo.
* "Beauty" retouch the photo
* DO NOT turn the image into a glamour shot
* Final image must be exactly 545 pixels wide and 800 pixels high.

color correct and beauty. restoration vs retouch is moot in this case. the contest is the contest.

as for your 'turd polishing' anaolgy/metaphor, i'll assume you're talking about the quality of the photographic process in this case and not about the person in the shot. and in actual fact, i think that is the point of this contest, make a silk purse from a sow's ear but keep it real. whether that's 'restoration' or 'retouching' is again, moot. that you seem to be saying there's no way to make a silk purse from this, well, your sig seems to say everything there; that 'betterment' is worthless and only perfection or near perfection is worth anything, and, in your profession, at your level, perhaps that's so.

this isnt high fashion retouching. this is more 'here's a picture a friend shot and i'd like it fixed' type work. yes, that really is more restoration, but again, semantics and moot in this case.

i'm told you're a high end retoucher and i've seen where you claim work in high end magazines and that's fine, but perhaps your standards are too high here, in this context. for the mags, fine, this shot might never make it. but, in this context here on RP, i do see a number of good pieces, very nicely done. so, i find your invalidative, sweeping, 'it's all bad' remark out of place here. if i were in your studio, working for your clients, then ok, perhaps. likewise, the 'cream of the crap' remark.

now, perhaps you are trying to impart to folks what a true, high end pro has to do and what quality is demanded of such, but a lot of your approach basically sucks, being mostly invalidative. i like frank and you are that. that part is refreshing. i noticed in another thread you said something like 'calling crap, crap'. nothing particularly wrong with that except that you take no one's current level of ability into account. you know the standard you have to work at, but seem to forget that most arent at that level and the invalidative approach as the only approach wont help any of them ever get there. even simon cowall (sp?) says something constructive at times.

i also noticed no posting of images from yourself at all here, in this contest or on RP in general, or none that i could find easily. i'm not challenging you to 'prove yourself' here. that's old high school argumentitive crap. but, at the same time i would love to see what a professional retoucher could do with such an image as is in this contest. i also realize your time is limited, perhaps and that you also think the base image is worthless from a professional standpoint, but what do you think could be done? i'm not asking for the 'silk purse' here, just what is the best, in your opinion, could actually be done (other than burning the original) that fits the contest criteria? and if you say it's something you actually wouldnt ever touch and therefore arent interested in, that's fine too. but i would be interested in seeing some of your work if not this contest image.

[T Paul]

I just wanted to clarify that those entering the contest should be downloading the image provided in the link in the first post and not downloading the first contest entry which happen's to be Swampy's entry.

August 07 Contest- Retouching Contest
For this month’s contest you are to color correct and “beauty retouch” the provided photo. Please note that this is not a "glamour" retouching contest, so the changes that you make should be more natural and subtle.

Download Image: Portrait

Thanks to LonK for the image!

[T Paul]

There are several entries that will get disqualified if they don't update their entries to meet the rules.

The three issues I am seeing:

1. Final image must be exactly 545 pixels wide and 800 pixels high.

2. When you submit your entry put your username in the filename (ie: tpaul.jpg). This is so users can save the images to a local directory and remember who did what--important when it comes time to vote.

3. Make sure you downloaded the right image and not a contestant's entry (Swampy's image is a contestant's entry and not the download image)

THANKS

~T

[dweekley]

Hi Ant,
I can understand what you are saying but I would like to say that as a newbie there is still a lot of learning value in challenges such as these. Not all of us believe that we'll end being or working on 'professional' quality photos (although that would be fun). I believe that there are many people out there that would be thrilled to have a picture result that equals many of the posts I've seen for this challenge. I never expect to see my work in a magazine but would sure love to delight a loved one by being able to bring back a fond memory for them from an old or poorly shot photo. Just my 2 cents, thanks for reading my post and I hope one day you'll use all that energy you have to help newbies like me.
Doreen

[Lynnette]

Thanks Doreen

I'm new here and trying to decide whether to even enter the contest! I'll give it a shot anyway.

Yes, it's a poorly exposed image, scan, etc, etc., That's what people give me and say "Help! It's the only shot we have!" I'm happy to make even crap into better crap.

Lynnette

[Alison]

Thought I'd have a try as well.

Arrgghhh!! Now it won't let me post my image. I had put the wrong file name on my image, changed it, then uploaded but no image appeared. When I tried to upload again it said that the file was already attached .........No it isn't LMAO

[Doug Colwell]

Ant said he hadn't looked at Kraelin's pic, and then went on to say that not one of the contest entries was any good. Maybe he could share his technique of evaluating pictures without looking at them? It'd be a real time saver.

[Photomaster]

How does one evaluate so many entries in this month's contest? Here is a tip that will make it easy for you Windows users. This may be basic stuff to many of you, but may help others.

1. In Windows Explorer, create a folder on you hard drive named "Aug Contest" or similar.
2. After the contest closes, download all of the entries to this folder. (This will insure you have all of the latest edits.) To do this, open each entry in RetouchPRO, then right click on the photo and select "Save image as". Navigate to the "Aug Contest" folder and click "Save".
3.When all of the photos are safely on you hard drive, in Windows Explorer, right click on any picture and select "Properties". Select "Opens With" and choose "Windows Picture and Fax Viewer" if this is not your default viewer.
4. Now, to view a photo, double click on the image. The picture will open in "Windows Picture and Fax Viewer". Now you can move from one picture to the next using the right or left arrow keys. To view the larger version, click on the "Actual Size" button at the bottom of the screen.
3. Next create a new subfolder entitled "Favorites". As you review the entries, click and drag your favorites to this folder.
4. In the "Favorites" folder you can now click and drag images to arrange them in your order of preference and they will remain in this order unless you move them again. In "Windows Picture and Fax Viewer," using the right and left arrow keys, you can quickly move back and forth between images to compare them. At any time you can go back to Windows Explorer and rearrange images by clicking and dragging.

Using this method it simple to compare images and decide on your favorites. I hope this helps you sort through the many great entries for this month's contest. Good luck to all!!

[ScubaMargie]

Thanks Photomaster for the idea, I was trying to think of a way to do it but couldn't.

Well said Kraellin. I agree with you. When I read his post it did actually make me feel as if I wasn't good enough. I then went and looked at the entries and thought that they looked cool to me. Sure we are not pros and I know I am still learning, and always will with photoshop. It is comments like his that destroy,(not sure if that is the right word here), peoples' confidence.

It is a shame ANT that you put your post the way you did. You came across to me like the ALMIGHTY of retouching but you won't even dain to get your fingers dirty and show off your magnificence. I would like to see an entry from you, show us how the ALMIGHTY operates!

Oh, and maybe you can fill us all in on how you did your work and then maybe we can be as good as you.

[Lorraine]

I wasn't going to enter this month, but the discussion was too much for me not to be able to say something.

To Ant -- Some of your points are very true, and I've taken note of them. Unfortunately, on this site, we're not dealing with the ultimate in professional photography. The photos we work on are not taken with high-end fashion models. The lighting and make-up is not perfect.

We're here to learn how to deal with those imperfections -- photo restoration and retouching with everyday photographs.

I've haven't been here for a while because I'm also working with an organization that is desperately trying to restore photos for people who lost them in the floods of Hurricane Katrina.

Professionals and amatuers alike are spending countless hours to try to turn water destroyed and mud-embedded nothing photos into the "creme de la crap." That's part of the real world of photo restoration. We might not have perfect results, but the recipients are thrilled with the product and memories returned to them.

I thank RetouchPRO for teaching me what I need to know to help these people.

To everyone in this contest -- Good work.

Lorraine

[rab3rd]

Ant, I think you lack tact. You comments however true are very abrasive and rude. Didnt your mother teach you to keep your tounge when you dont have something nice to say? Or at a minimum tryin being constructive about it? Maybe you are just one of those forum trolls that likes to stir the pot. No matter, having entered a file and looking at all of them I see some that arent too good some that are ok and some that are very good. Whatever you call the type of work that is being done, its still valid.

[CJ Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

...
To Ant -- Some of your points are very true, and I've taken note of them. Unfortunately, on this site, we're not dealing with the ultimate in professional photography. The photos we work on are not taken with high-end fashion models. The lighting and make-up is not perfect.

We're here to learn how to deal with those imperfections -- photo restoration and retouching with everyday photographs.

... I'm also working with an organization that is desperately trying to restore photos for people who lost them in the floods of Hurricane Katrina. ... That's part of the real world of photo restoration. We might not have perfect results, but the recipients are thrilled with the product and memories returned to them.
Lorraine

Lorraine -- excellent post!

[dweekley]

Lynnette, sorry about the delay....I haven't checked to see if you posted your contest results but if not, please do. All the posts I've seen from Ant run in the same vein and do not reflect the other 99% of people on this site, in my opinion. By now you've probaby read Lorraine's post to which I reply - Bravo!
Doreen

[LonK]

Originally Posted by LonK

Got room for one more?

WOW! Most popular contest in well over a year! I'm pleased to have contributed the source photo -- not knowing it would be used for a contest, but one I knew would be challenging to retouch in any case.

Of course, a young pretty woman is my favorite subject to retouch. So, I had to have my go also before time ran out.

Admittedly, this was more demanding than I first anticipated. Here's what I did, in a nutshell:

Correcting the color shift required treating the hair and skin hues separately as each was effected differently -- I used masked color curves. A primary goal was to soften the harsh Rembrandt lighting. Once that was done, I set about to fix the skin: lots of D&B, de-noise brushing, hue and tone airbrushing, some PWL and some Neat Image. To retain contour and modeling and to avoid over-flattening, I also used judicious local contrast adjustments.

Next I enhanced her eyes, the undeniable focal point of the portrait, emphasizing color and "sparkle". Natural beautifying included pretty standard makeup (for 1973) touch-up: lipstick, blush, eyeliner and mascara, and fixing a major flaw in the photo - bringing back the eyebrow that had been blown out by faulty exposure/processing.

I toned down the hot rim lighting and muted flyaway hairs to her left and below her chin. Lastly, I added a hint of vignetting.

Of course there were dozens of other very subtle adjustments made along the way.

Finally, I resized for contest, sharpened a bit and saved for web.

Man has been endowed with reason, with the power to create, so that he can add to what he's been given.
- Anton Chekhov (1860-1904) Russian dramatist and writer