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Aug 07 Contest Discussion

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  #41  
Old 08-14-2007, 10:23 AM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

Regarding this "Beauty" retouch contest. This is much more a restoration job than anything. The file is junk, poor scan of an underexposed, under lit image. This isn't really worth doing and explains a lot of the entries looking so nasty. Seems a lot of people need to calibrate their monitors, but anyway. This is supposed to be about beauty retouching and 88% of the work needs to go into rescuing/restoring this file which will never look really good. I think it needs to be run again with a quality image.
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  #42  
Old 08-14-2007, 12:06 PM
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LonK LonK is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

Ant, I can't disagree with anything you are saying (especially your point about folks needing to calibrate their monitors). Of course this is the nature of the beast for non-high end retouchers like most here. Therein, too, lies the challenge. All I can suggest is to help by submitting one or more suitable "quality" image(s) to Doug for contest use.
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  #43  
Old 08-14-2007, 12:27 PM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

I'll get Doug an image as soon as I can come up for air a bit.
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  #44  
Old 08-14-2007, 03:05 PM
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lurch lurch is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

Quote:
Regarding this "Beauty" retouch contest.
I couldn't pass up commenting on this post, knowing full well there was a good chance of bringing an Ant rant down upon my own head. He is absolutely right. HOWEVER, who cares what it's called? IMO these contests are an opportunity for us plebes to trot out our skills and stack them up against other folks and at the same time have a chance to cop a cool toy as a prize. They're also a great learning experience.

<C>

Postscript: It would be an even greater learning experience if Ant gets in a really good image and the rest of us get to see what the big guns can do with it.

Last edited by lurch; 08-14-2007 at 03:09 PM. Reason: stupid autofill turned postscript abbreviation into photoshop
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  #45  
Old 08-15-2007, 12:43 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant View Post
Regarding this "Beauty" retouch contest. This is much more a restoration job than anything. The file is junk, poor scan of an underexposed, under lit image. This isn't really worth doing and explains a lot of the entries looking so nasty. Seems a lot of people need to calibrate their monitors, but anyway. This is supposed to be about beauty retouching and 88% of the work needs to go into rescuing/restoring this file which will never look really good. I think it needs to be run again with a quality image.
Quote:
Ant rant
lol. i like that.

well, ant, yes, it is a lot of restoration. your point being? this is exactly the type of image that a lot of us work on every day. so, saying it's not worth doing seems a bit odd. that it's a poor file is exactly why it is a contest candidate.

as for calibration of monitors, i'd like to know specifically who here, since this is always a bit of a question mark here on RP. do they not like my work because my monitor is off, their monitor is off or the work simply wasnt that good.

and as for the 'will never look really good' part, i disagree. i see a lot of good entries where the work does look good. that it may not be maxim magazine, cosmo, other glam mag good, that wasnt the point of the contest. in fact, the whole point was to make it look good without being of that type.

so, i dont quite follow your point here.
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  #46  
Old 08-15-2007, 01:53 PM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

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Originally Posted by Kraellin View Post
well, ant, yes, it is a lot of restoration. your point being? this is exactly the type of image that a lot of us work on every day. so, saying it's not worth doing seems a bit odd. that it's a poor file is exactly why it is a contest candidate.

as for calibration of monitors, i'd like to know specifically who here, since this is always a bit of a question mark here on RetouchPRO. do they not like my work because my monitor is off, their monitor is off or the work simply wasnt that good.

and as for the 'will never look really good' part, i disagree. i see a lot of good entries where the work does look good. that it may not be maxim magazine, cosmo, other glam mag good, that wasnt the point of the contest. in fact, the whole point was to make it look good without being of that type.

so, i dont quite follow your point here.
I didn't look at your entry, and I probably won't. If your monitor is not calibrated, you are making moves in the dark. Sure, you could do it by the numbers for an overall look, but what about balancing throughout? Can't do it.

Point is, it is a Beauty Retouch. The contest is not Restoration and beautify. The attempts here are one of Turd Polishing. No matter how much you shine it up, it's still a turd. The point of the contest is beauty, not turd portraiture. What point don't you get?

"i see a lot of good entries where the work does look good."

As a whole, no it doesn't, not one. The winner will be the cream of the crap, not a good restoration and retouch.
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  #47  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:31 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

Quote:
Point is, it is a Beauty Retouch. The contest is not Restoration and beautify.
no, the point is exactly that T-Paul said:

Quote:
* Color correct the provided photo.
* "Beauty" retouch the photo
* DO NOT turn the image into a glamour shot
* Final image must be exactly 545 pixels wide and 800 pixels high.
color correct and beauty. restoration vs retouch is moot in this case. the contest is the contest.

as for your 'turd polishing' anaolgy/metaphor, i'll assume you're talking about the quality of the photographic process in this case and not about the person in the shot. and in actual fact, i think that is the point of this contest, make a silk purse from a sow's ear but keep it real. whether that's 'restoration' or 'retouching' is again, moot. that you seem to be saying there's no way to make a silk purse from this, well, your sig seems to say everything there; that 'betterment' is worthless and only perfection or near perfection is worth anything, and, in your profession, at your level, perhaps that's so.

this isnt high fashion retouching. this is more 'here's a picture a friend shot and i'd like it fixed' type work. yes, that really is more restoration, but again, semantics and moot in this case.

i'm told you're a high end retoucher and i've seen where you claim work in high end magazines and that's fine, but perhaps your standards are too high here, in this context. for the mags, fine, this shot might never make it. but, in this context here on RP, i do see a number of good pieces, very nicely done. so, i find your invalidative, sweeping, 'it's all bad' remark out of place here. if i were in your studio, working for your clients, then ok, perhaps. likewise, the 'cream of the crap' remark.

now, perhaps you are trying to impart to folks what a true, high end pro has to do and what quality is demanded of such, but a lot of your approach basically sucks, being mostly invalidative. i like frank and you are that. that part is refreshing. i noticed in another thread you said something like 'calling crap, crap'. nothing particularly wrong with that except that you take no one's current level of ability into account. you know the standard you have to work at, but seem to forget that most arent at that level and the invalidative approach as the only approach wont help any of them ever get there. even simon cowall (sp?) says something constructive at times.

i also noticed no posting of images from yourself at all here, in this contest or on RP in general, or none that i could find easily. i'm not challenging you to 'prove yourself' here. that's old high school argumentitive crap. but, at the same time i would love to see what a professional retoucher could do with such an image as is in this contest. i also realize your time is limited, perhaps and that you also think the base image is worthless from a professional standpoint, but what do you think could be done? i'm not asking for the 'silk purse' here, just what is the best, in your opinion, could actually be done (other than burning the original) that fits the contest criteria? and if you say it's something you actually wouldnt ever touch and therefore arent interested in, that's fine too. but i would be interested in seeing some of your work if not this contest image.
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  #48  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:36 PM
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T Paul T Paul is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

I just wanted to clarify that those entering the contest should be downloading the image provided in the link in the first post and not downloading the first contest entry which happen's to be Swampy's entry.
Quote:
August 07 Contest- Retouching Contest
For this month’s contest you are to color correct and “beauty retouch” the provided photo. Please note that this is not a "glamour" retouching contest, so the changes that you make should be more natural and subtle.

Download Image: Portrait

Thanks to LonK for the image!

Last edited by T Paul; 08-15-2007 at 04:56 PM.
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  #49  
Old 08-15-2007, 05:09 PM
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T Paul T Paul is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

There are several entries that will get disqualified if they don't update their entries to meet the rules.

The three issues I am seeing:
1. Final image must be exactly 545 pixels wide and 800 pixels high.

2. When you submit your entry put your username in the filename (ie: tpaul.jpg). This is so users can save the images to a local directory and remember who did what--important when it comes time to vote.

3. Make sure you downloaded the right image and not a contestant's entry (Swampy's image is a contestant's entry and not the download image)
THANKS

~T
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  #50  
Old 08-15-2007, 06:46 PM
dweekley dweekley is offline
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Re: Aug 07 Contest Discussion

Hi Ant,
I can understand what you are saying but I would like to say that as a newbie there is still a lot of learning value in challenges such as these. Not all of us believe that we'll end being or working on 'professional' quality photos (although that would be fun). I believe that there are many people out there that would be thrilled to have a picture result that equals many of the posts I've seen for this challenge. I never expect to see my work in a magazine but would sure love to delight a loved one by being able to bring back a fond memory for them from an old or poorly shot photo. Just my 2 cents, thanks for reading my post and I hope one day you'll use all that energy you have to help newbies like me.
Doreen
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