June 09 Contest Discussion Thread

[T Paul]

I will allow those that want to add the covered up foot to complete the image. It is optional though. Those that don't, there are no points off and entries should not be judge whether the missing foot is added or not.

[Kraellin]

i dont think i'll enter this one. i just looked at the entries so far and i think i'd be up all night and go a bit crazy trying to judge... let's see, his is missing a pixel there, but hers is missing that pixel over there and those feathers....arrrrrrgggghhhh!

[T Paul]

It's not as daunting as it appears. The key is finding the right technique.

[Sveltepig]

hm
well, here's a though for discussion:
the rules say - add a shadow to keep your dancer from floating
then later they say - add a shadow to give your dancer depth

The first feels to me like a base shadow, something to show that he is standing on something, and the second sounds more like a cast shadow, something to show he has an environment.

tricky decision, that. What do you all think?
I went with a base shadow, but am now considering adding a cast shadow too...
K

[Kraellin]

i'd say look at the original and see what kind of shadow it has, then simply make something similar. after all, the lighting on the gentleman would promote one in making the shadow in that manner anyways.

[amica999]

phew, am I glad I can't vote!
Chapeau claque for all who entered this and returned with marvelling results. All really well done

[dweekley]

cheers to all who completed this one. i started and didn't get done in time. i'm not disappointed to miss the judging however, it would be another challenge.

[Veralisa]

"Removing the background from ALL those little spaces between the fringe, feathers. Once the dancer is on a white background, you will need to add a shadow back to keep the dancer from floating."

I'd like some friendly and constructive feedback concerning the rules as posted at the beginning of the contest. I realize my "shadow" was placed differently than any of the others...and my question is did it cause my dancer to "float"? And another question, did the rules allow spaces between the feathers to go un-cleared?

The whole object of the contest was an important and useful one, one I will always need as a digital artist. It was tedious...but it was also a lot of fun. Thanks all.

[Sveltepig]

Hi Veralisa
I think your question about shadows is an important one - I work in an industry where we often remove people from their original backgrounds and
I feel it is vital to make the person look as much as though they were originally shot on the new background (whether an environment or a solid colour) as possible.

To do that there are some things that are very important - one is to remove any colour or lighting from the figure that does not fit into the new environment (e.g. in this case, were we allowed to make other changes to the image, I would have lightened the whiter feathers and his hair to show that they might have been shot in a lighter space.)

The next most important thing is to make the figure look grounded in the new environment, and this is where shadows play such an important role.

No space you can shot in can be so completely white as to be as flat as a solid white block placed behind a person, but it is conceivable that the dancer might have been in a studio with direct sunlight, which would have cast a shadow on the ground in the same direction as the light on his body.

( A good indication to determine the direction of the cast shadow is to look at the shadow he has cast in his original environment).

But most importantly, whatever the direction of his cast shadow, he needs to have weight and substance, which you can only achieve by using a darker colour under his feet, where he is closest to the ground. (the base shadow)

In this contest, none of us has created perfectly believable shadows. Ruzzez has a great shadow shape and direction, but misses the all-important darkest point of contact to make his shadow work perfectly. Maybury's submission is most plausibly dense under the feet, but is not placed as well.
Your own submission shows no change in the density of the shadow - some advice: try not to use less than 100% opacity for your shadow layer, but rather mask or delete the shadow away as it fades in density.

Have a look at some images of people shot in neutral environments, and look very closely to the area where they make contact with the ground - it will always be very dark directly at this point, tapering off to various degrees depending on the type of lighting used.

Herewith a link to another post about shadows, including images of a dog whose own base and cast shadows perfectly illustrate my point:
http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...l-shadows.html

I hope this helps - I am also still struggling to master the shadow-making aspect of these types of images.
Karin

[Veralisa]

Karin,

Thanks so much for responding to my comments...it makes a body feel good to have some constructive critiques, no?

Yeah, the feet did me in, well, for starters anyway. Actually, in my mind I tried to visualize him in front of a wall and made (tried) a shadow to come out from the feet and then flow in a perpendicular direction. At this point please don't ask why...I'm still wondering what possessed me to do it that way. Anyway, I was truly aiming for a better masking job than shadow work. I'll learn. "no change in the density of the shadow"...hmmm... yes, I really did make two separate densities..at least the last time I looked. Next time I'll look harder

"Me & My Shadow" are saying goodnight now as well as a very big Thank You to you!
V.

[Veralisa]

PS: the link you posted is great. It's a keeper. Wait till the next contest that uses a shadow comes along -pow!- I won't be using anymore guessing games.

Veralisa

[T Paul]

Kudos to those of you that braved the dreaded isolation contest! Are you guys seeing feathers in your dreams? I'm hoping you learned some useful tips to make this process easier.

And the winner is....

Mayberry!


Top 3
mayberry - 26
Janet Petty - 22
Ruzzez - 19


If you have some contest ideas or more importantly copyright free photos we can use (model releases/permissions included). Please PM me!

[Janet Petty]

Whoo Whoo you got it right on Mayberry. Congratulations!!!

Janet

[LonK]

Congratulations, Mayberry!

[MiningArt]

Congrats on winning Mayberry, really excellent . All the entries were pretty good, amazing effort.

[Kraellin]

congratulations, mayberry

[mayberry]

Thank you so very much for all your lovely comments, I am so very excited to learn I was placed first. thank you for all who voted for me. I really feel humbled, with so many excellent entries and with great appreciation of all the hours that were put in to this project by everyone, it really was a mammoth task, but also a good learning experience. Sorry it has taken me a while to respond but I have been camping.

Thank you Lonnie for taking the time to give us all your excellent tips, they were extremely helpful, along with the Russell Brown tutorial 'advanced masking techniques for really bad hair days' and free download of Dave Nagel hair brushes, which inspired me to make my own brush for the fluff at the bottom of the feathers.

The shadow was created by tracing the original faint shadow on a new layer behind the subject with filter/gaussian blur with the opacity at 35%, then painting on a new layer with a soft brush with a opacity of 20% using the filter/gaussian blur until it looked okay, hope that makes sense.

Once again, thank you, thank you, thank you.