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T Paul 08-09-2014 10:30 AM

Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
Add your comments, questions or general discussion about the contest entries here. This is also a great place to share your techniques or ask others about theirs.

Most members are eager to hear comments/suggestions about their entries, so please take the time to help each other out.

Dave-Oh 08-13-2014 09:40 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
Brilliant competition - and a curious experience. Still downloading the TIFF version, had a play with the JPEG. It's a shame that it's not a tiny bit higher in resolution, though I guess it should make it easier to play with. (Ah, the TIFF is grand!)

One of the images appears to have a tiny amount of warp in it (or else my difference aligning wasn't correct!) around the middle of the picture. The damage to the sides on that image give some idea what happened.

I was particularly interested in the Blue channel - in RGB images this typically contains most of the noise - hopefully that should help people identify the channel!

Foghorn002 - can't see your image anywhere.

cheekerz 08-13-2014 10:26 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
Sounds like a fun test... I will look into it.

PixelPurfect 08-13-2014 12:35 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
The Alias Blue Channel is a different composition. The young man sitting on the logs in the middle has his lips parted in the darkest (blue) channel. The other facial expressions don't align either in that part of the image. What a colossal waste of time. If you wanted me to build a fake blue channel out of the green why did you include a misleading blue channel? Dumb!

rodrigounda 08-13-2014 01:31 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
i think this picture was taken using colour filters over the lens. that's why there a slight difference in one of the "channels"
this is what I got:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5586/...fa881de8_b.jpg

lkroll 08-13-2014 01:32 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
GIMP has built in support to compose from grays. Did the below after around 15 minutes but, it's still way too much for a lazy man like me to do the cleanup work. lol

Biggest issue is to align the frames of course. :)

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/7024/8HbQxz.jpg

kuasar 08-13-2014 03:29 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
I'm on it!

@lkroll, Gimp does a very nice job aligning, but did you notice it actually requires manual fine tunning because the guy in the middle moved in between shots? You can notice some aberration in that area due to this and there is no way it can be done totally automatic :(.

daygraphics 08-13-2014 08:46 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
I am going to give this a try. I usually don't compete in these contests and generally don't have the time to do them justice, but this one intrigues me. Some interesting results so far already posted - and some surprising variance in results. Those differences actually seemed unlikely at first read, but I've yet to do it - so I'll see what comes of my efforts.

daygraphics 08-13-2014 10:26 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Very nice take rambaldi92!

daygraphics 08-13-2014 10:46 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
1 Attachment(s)
So... I must admit, breaking this down was a revelation of presumed past technology. I am not familiar with the process of taking a color photo in this era (although I probably should be). But it does appear that the photographer takes 3 shots, advancing the film as he changes his lens filters (YMC) to capture the blue, green, red light. What we have downloaded is a contact sheet (a print) of that film, which accounts for the dirt in some frames, but not others. Initially thinking the dirt specs could be lined up in the layers of RGB, but soon realized that dirt/dust on the neg in one spot will not correlate to the same area of the image in the other channels. Obviously, as some have pointed out, the man in the middle (kneeling) had the hardest time holding his position during the 3 exposures. So I actually morphed him individually, and selectively, to try and get a better alignment and focus for him. Also rather obvious is that the Wood Piles did not move - so, this is a good place to start your alignment. Got lots of other observations while playing, but cut short (for now) and show you a quick rendition of where I am.

venanzio 08-14-2014 12:59 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
How do you save to be 100k max so that the image is viewable. If I get down to 100k, it really looks like crap and the ones here are better.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 07:58 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Sure you are xgi93. It looks pretty darn good to me for your start.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:45 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsykhra (Post 322798)
My version
I've decided not to remove sun's yellow cast completly


Original
http://www.yapfiles.ru/files/925476/tsykhra.jpg

Far from perfect buy perfection takes hours )

I really like it!

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:48 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lkroll (Post 322784)
GIMP has built in support to compose from grays. Did the below after around 15 minutes but, it's still way too much for a lazy man like me to do the cleanup work. lol

Biggest issue is to align the frames of course. :)

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/7024/8HbQxz.jpg

Lyle... mine started out looking almost exactly like yours!

AngeloDau 08-14-2014 10:51 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
http://i62.tinypic.com/1zcek4w.jpg

merged-quickly retouched

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:51 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-Oh (Post 322779)
Brilliant competition - and a curious experience. Still downloading the TIFF version, had a play with the JPEG. It's a shame that it's not a tiny bit higher in resolution, though I guess it should make it easier to play with. (Ah, the TIFF is grand!)

One of the images appears to have a tiny amount of warp in it (or else my difference aligning wasn't correct!) around the middle of the picture. The damage to the sides on that image give some idea what happened.

I was particularly interested in the Blue channel - in RGB images this typically contains most of the noise - hopefully that should help people identify the channel!

Foghorn002 - can't see your image anywhere.

Hey Dave. Good pickup, but not warp. These are 3 exposures shot simultaneously- back "in the day". Everybody had to hold a perfectly still pose throughout. Guy in middle, kneeling, moved in all 3. Hard position to hold.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:55 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rodrigounda (Post 322783)
i think this picture was taken using colour filters over the lens. that's why there a slight difference in one of the "channels"
this is what I got:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5586/...fa881de8_b.jpg

Absolutely done that way. Use a Cyan filter and only the Red light wave passes through. Film is panchromatic (not color film yet). Panchromatic simply means that is exposes identically to any light, regardless of wavelength. So the trick is to filter out the unwanted waves, until you have a RGB exposure. 3 Separate at the time.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:58 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PixelPurfect (Post 322781)
The Alias Blue Channel is a different composition. The young man sitting on the logs in the middle has his lips parted in the darkest (blue) channel. The other facial expressions don't align either in that part of the image. What a colossal waste of time. If you wanted me to build a fake blue channel out of the green why did you include a misleading blue channel? Dumb!

Nothing fake. People are just moving around between the 3 SEPARATE shots the photographer took to compose a color photo. The older man on far right is simply the best. He stood iron-clad , spot-on still. INTERESTING note - you'll find that the piled logs DID NOT MOVE. Good clue...

daygraphics 08-14-2014 12:05 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by edgework (Post 322803)
Fun stuff.

Sure getting it. A little overpowered by the yellow. Maybe work on reducing that channel or actually doing some SELECTIVE COLOR CORRECTION, taking yellow out of yellow.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 12:07 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeloDau (Post 322807)
http://i62.tinypic.com/1zcek4w.jpg

merged-quickly retouched

Like it! Maybe work on brightening some. Could use some more pop and contrast. A couple of others on here had made that correction successfully. I have to work more on my own to get to where some of them are.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 01:05 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Pretty nice. Agree on the Yellow being a tad bit over exposed. In fact, each of these successive shots could be varying in exposure - and in directions not conducive to a good merge. Not sure I understand what you mean by "being kept in different channels" and weathering differently? I believe this is "one" single strip of film, shot in a camera in successive exposures, with the photographer simply advancing the film a full frame to accept the new capture. Then, this download is simply a Black & White contact sheet of that film.

kuasar 08-14-2014 01:06 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venanzio (Post 322797)
My first cut at it. a very interesting problem

I think you may have mistaken two channels. Try swaping them ;).

daygraphics 08-14-2014 01:08 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by edgework (Post 322803)
Fun stuff.

Pretty nice...

kuasar 08-14-2014 01:10 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daygraphics (Post 322814)
Pretty nice. Agree on the Yellow being a tad bit over exposed. In fact, each of these successive shots could be varying in exposure - and in direction not conducive to a good merge. Not sure I understand what you mean by "being kept in different channels" and weathering differently? I believe this is one single strip of film, shot in a camera in successive exposure, with the photographer simply advancing the film a full frame to accept the new capture. Then this download is simply a Black & White contact sheet of that film.

Of course they're on a strip... only it is not different exposures what differs from each of them, it's the filter. They were actually captured using a filter in what is known as the Harris Shutter Effect. That the red filter is overexposed is actually a mistake from the photographer. See here how I write about correcting the levels on each still before anything else? They should have all been taken with the same exposure but across different color filters.

In the end we have three different images, and that implies that each shot has different exposure to time and has had different marks made on it that will affect each channel differently (see the blue channel has even some figures written on?). If you were to retouch a single old still, you'd just have to make your way dodging+burning, stamping, healing... whatever. But here marks are done to just one of the three channels. So if you want to remove the cyan spots you just have to retouch the red channel. And if you want to remove the magenta markings you'd retouch the green channel (and thus saving 66% of the information intact).

daygraphics 08-14-2014 02:25 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kuasar (Post 322817)
Of course they're on a strip... only it is not different exposures what differs from each of them, it's the filter. They were actually captured using a filter in what is known as the Harris Shutter Effect. That the red filter is overexposed is actually a mistake from the photographer. See here how I write about correcting the levels on each still before anything else? They should have all been taken with the same exposure but across different color filters.

In the end we have three different images, and that implies that each shot has different exposure to time and has had different marks made on it that will affect each channel differently (see the blue channel has even some figures written on?). If you were to retouch a single old still, you'd just have to make your way dodging+burning, stamping, healing... whatever. But here marks are done to just one of the three channels. So if you want to remove the cyan spots you just have to retouch the red channel. And if you want to remove the magenta markings you'd retouch the green channel (and thus saving 66% of the information intact).

That writing you see on that channel is actually scratched into the negative, on the emulsion side. Pretty common thing to do. Even with negs going back only 10-15 years.
And I think I said pretty much what you just reiterated. Same concept applied not to long ago in in-camera separations for the print industry. Separate exposures (with filter in lens) to filter out unwanted light. About the different marks... that is simply a matter of the negative being damaged (scratched) and or the exposure to the contact being dirty (dust, dirt, etc) at different locations along the strip. Yes, you can retouch within individual channels without having to retouch all 3 channels simultaneously to remove the aberrations. Good observation.

kuasar 08-14-2014 02:51 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daygraphics (Post 322823)
That writing you see on that channel is actually scratched into the negative, on the emulsion side. Pretty common thing to do. Even with negs going back only 10-15 years.
And I think I said pretty much what you just reiterated. Same concept applied not to long ago in in-camera separations for the print industry. Separate exposures (with filter in lens) to filter out unwanted light. About the different marks... that is simply a matter of the negative being damaged (scratched) and or the exposure to the contact being dirty (dust, dirt, etc) at different locations along the strip. Yes, you can retouch within individual channels without having to retouch all 3 channels simultaneously to remove the aberrations. Good observation.

I agreed that they are different shots on a strip, I just pointed out that they are not actually different exposures (meaning different light ranges) but stills shot through different color filters, which is not exactly the same. Yes, the marks are negatives being damaged, that's what I meant with "weathering" and retouching single channels.

On the other hand, chromatic aberrations are not these marks by the way. Chromatic aberration is due to different focal points for different light waves (colors), resulting in the fringing effect that can be seen around the guys that move in between shots (specially the one in the center). This does not refer to the markings on the negative and this is something I resolved by locally realigning manually the channels.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 04:33 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kuasar (Post 322825)
I agreed that they are different shots on a strip, I just pointed out that they are not actually different exposures (meaning different light ranges) but stills shot through different color filters, which is not exactly the same. Yes, the marks are negatives being damaged, that's what I meant with "weathering" and retouching single channels.

On the other hand, chromatic aberrations are not these marks by the way. Chromatic aberration is due to different focal points for different light waves (colors), resulting in the fringing effect that can be seen around the guys that move in between shots (specially the one in the center). This does not refer to the markings on the negative and this is something I resolved by locally realigning manually the channels.

I think you and I are playing semantics. I like your connection to the Harris Shutter Effect, by the way! Simply stated, chromatic aberration was a constant in the days of old time color photography. People always moved. Heck, even the photographer handling the camera - ever so gingerly - can bump the registration.The solution to it in this contest, can be handled in a multitude of ways. Each will do what works best for them, I myself handled the movement of the center man by individually morphing that selective area to align within the frames of the existing borders. Exposure was also always a problem, as the shutter speed was a manual setting. This certainly did not account for the sun getting a little brighter or the sky a bit cloudier during the course of a session. You and I can now just concentrate on making our finals the very best they can be. I know I have some work ahead of me on that front!

daygraphics 08-14-2014 04:49 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justanartist (Post 322831)
Not sure if this worked? Seems like uploading could be the hardest part about this site..LOL. Thanks for any help!

SURE DID WORK. Looks very nice. Great color saturation and tone. Fine tune it up, if you feel it needs some and your a bonafide candidate - at least in my book!

kuasar 08-14-2014 04:59 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daygraphics (Post 322832)
I think you and I are playing semantics. I like your connection to the Harris Shutter Effect, by the way! Simply stated, chromatic aberration was a constant in the days of old time color photography. People always moved. Heck, even the photographer handling the camera - ever so gingerly - can bump the registration.The solution to it in this contest, can be handled in a multitude of ways. Each will do what works best for them, I myself handled the movement of the center man by individually morphing that selective area to align within the frames of the existing borders. Exposure was also always a problem, as the shutter speed was a manual setting. This certainly did not account for the sun getting a little brighter or the sky a bit cloudier during the course of a session. You and I can now just concentrate on making our finals the very best they can be. I know I have some work ahead of me on that front!

Agree on everything :)

justanartist 08-14-2014 09:54 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Thanks DG!
I spent about two hours on it. Too many steps involved, I easily could have spent another two hours on this one! One thing that helped me speed up the registration process was to go to the channels panel and pick each channel and then press the tilde key which let me see through everything. Then I simply used the move tool and arrow keys to line everything up.
Of course as most found out they didn't line up perfectly due to time lags in the photographers shutter release, environmental conditions, minute movements in the subjects and slight focusing differences.
Color correction was done by selecting channels and using the levels to enhance contrast. Sharpening was done on the channels. Some spot healing on the damaged negatives. A really fun project!

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:32 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Interesting ~JeNsEn~. Not exactly how most are coming out, but a neat twist. I might suggest some color adjustments. Also maybe too dark in some of the areas (trees) meant to carry detail.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:37 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
1 Attachment(s)
I am taking some advice from members and drawing from of the examples I've seen and liked here. Here is my latest...Not highres - just large enough to get the idea out, and still fit within forum's standards. i will post my Final Final on a link site to see it in all its glory (or flaws - whichever way you see it).

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:43 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
1 Attachment(s)
A little closer look and still under the 100K. I am liking this project a lot. I am seeing great things here, and am working towards implementing the best of the best renditions and ideas.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 10:51 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Nice play Tsykhra. I like what you've done.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 11:00 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Contest Discussion
 
So sorry to post yet again... but fascinated by this contest challenge. Just wanted to say that I got some good advice from kuasar. If you were able to extensively clean each of these channels individually, as a single image, before doing the channel merge, you would get a very, very good clean starting image. I did a lot of this and it really helped. But I admit I could NOT stick with it and clean it all. I got most of the really bad artifacts, and got rid of a lot of my color aberrations to start the project.

daygraphics 08-14-2014 11:03 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
I think it is a great start Foghorn002. Suggestion to burn or darken the areas outside of the main central focal point (people).

justanartist 08-14-2014 11:04 PM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
I like this one!

Tsykhra 08-15-2014 12:55 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daygraphics (Post 322842)
Nice play Tsykhra. I like what you've done.

Thank you )

kuasar 08-15-2014 04:06 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daygraphics (Post 322841)
A little closer look and still under the 100K. I am liking this project a lot. I am seeing great things here, and am working towards implementing the best of the best renditions and ideas.

imho definitely better than your first submission. Great job.

Tsykhra 08-15-2014 10:39 AM

Re: Aug-Sep 2014 Merge Channels Contest
 
Mr G, I think you overdone a little but with painting in color mode so that tree trunks became green too and logs lost color variations and became all the same hue. And upper part of trees have hue shift towards blue.


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