Help-extracting background & feathering edges

[KBS]

I'm new to the forum and would appreciated any criticism. I will be retouching animal photos in my new company and having trouble extracting backgrounds and applying a feathered edge that still looks like fur. this is how I did it.
1. Created 2 layer masks and mixed into 1 alpha channel-tried not to clean it up too much and lose the fur. Used Russ Brown's tutorial but since there was no background contrast, I mixed two channels, one to get more detail in the fur and one to take any black out of dog itself.
2. Erased part of dog (legs & chest) using eraser tool.
3. Defringed by contracting 4 pixels, feathered by 2
4. Decreased contrast for right eye and added color for left. (Yes, this dog does have 2 different colors-she's not demonic!)
5. Added white layer for background so you could see detail.

I know this isn't very clean but don't know what to do next. Gaussian blur? Won't I lose fur edges?
This is my first request for a critique, hope I've given enough info and followed the rules? Intermediate (hobby level, not pro) Photoshop CS user on a MAC.
Thanks everyone

[Ken Rogers]

There's a fantastic method for such selections which Deke McClelland has documented in his book, "Photoshop 7.0 Bible Pro". This procedure works well for hairy selections.

1) Duplicate a channel.

2) Run a "high pass" (found in filters) at setting 10.0 on this channel.

3) In the Levels window, bring the shadow triangle and the highlight triangle very close together. This creates a mask that hopefully has done all of the hair selection work for you, by making those fine hairs white against a black background.

4) You want the dog and his hair to appear white, so you will need to "invert" parts of your mask in order to achieve this (as some areas of hair may be black, not white).

5) Finish the rest of the mask by hand, painting white over what you want selected, and painting black over what you wish to remove.

I know this is impossible to visualize, but it will make more sense as you work through it. Good luck!

Ken

[Gary Richardson]

Just did a simple extract on this one.

Cleaned edges a little, using soft eraser set to about 20% opacity.

[Ken Rogers]

Nice job, Gary. I just tried the "high pass" method, but I got poor results. The procedure works well for human hair (anything non-fuzzy).

Ken

[Gary Richardson]

Thanks Ken,

I usually give the extract filter a try. It's a bit hit and miss, but sometimes it gives quite good results, and it doesn't take long. If it doesn't give the result I'm looking for, I scrap it and try something else.

The trick is not to use the in-filter tools to clean up the extract, but to use history brush and eraser to correct things once the object is extracted.

[Duv]

[quote=Gary Richardson
The trick is not to use the in-filter tools to clean up the extract, but to use history brush and eraser to correct things once the object is extracted.[/QUOTE]

Now that's an interesting tidbit. Thanks for that Gary. Will give it a go.

Dave

[Gary Richardson]

Hi Dave,

I also put a layer underneath the extracted object, coloured with a contrasting colour to help see what needs doing. Afterwards I discard it.

[KBS]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Gary, your idea of using the history brush after extracting really helped. It's worked the best so far and I will post my pic when it's done. BTW, has anyone used Knockout 2 or Automask 4.6? I posted this question in the reviews section too. Concerns: does it work for fur? Lack of support, tutorials etc. I also found using a background layer helps to point out the problem areas.

[Gary Richardson]

Glad I could help a little, can't remember where I picked up the tip about history brush, but I use it a lot. Just remember to move your history point if you do any adjustments to your image before you extract otherwise you can get some unwanted results.

I don't really have any hard and fast rules about selecting objects, tend to experiment and see what works with each image, I've yet to find one that works for all. If I ever do, be sure I'll post it here.

Can't really help you with the programmes you mentioned, if they work well for you, let us know.

Good luck.

[Paris]

A curse you Gary Richardson

One of the tools I have not touched is the history brush or should I say was. Thanks to your little tip on extracting and cleanup this is no longer the case.

I had put it in the too hard for now basket along with the pen tool. The pen tool came out about a month ago and now the history brush is out, which means even more new things to learn and come to grips with.

But hey... thank you for a very useful and helpful tip that works

Paris

[Gary Richardson]

Thanks Paris (I think).

Just now us Poms are used to Aussie curses, (after your unexpectedly poor play in the 20/20 and one day matches). I don't expect it to be the same in the Tests though.

The History brush is a very useful and versatile tool, you'll find it useful in all kinds of ways, its well worth getting to know.

Have fun with it, and good luck in the upcoming Tests, (just as long as its not too much luck).

[kl4]

hi all
I am new to the site and loving it!

I am avidly following up on and tracking down all references to extraction, masks and clipping paths. Most of what I have found so far has been very informative and interesting (some very confusing and way above my head on first reading).
I have noticed something that confuses me, namely:
evryone (or most of you) seems to work in rgb, as opposed to cmyk.
Is rgb better for making masks?
Do you work in rgb because photoshop lets you do more with it, or because the colour gamut is wider?

I work in cmyk, so as to check colours for print (we use a profile also).
I prefer cmyk - I can see the colour seps better in my mind's eye.
Do you suggest that I switch to rgb?

thanks for all the help so far and still to come.
karin

[philbach]

I use the extract tool more than many do and found that it works quite well. A lot faster than the pen tool. I do use the extract tools since they help me a lot. After I paint the selection and fill it with the paint bucket tool I click preview and usually use a gray matte to show the selection. The clean up tool works great in removing fuzziness and holding down the option/alt key of the clean up tool replaces what has been removed.

I will give the history brush a try.

[Nanls]

Here is an interesting tidbit regarding the extracting tool. After extracting, simply dubplicate your layer -simple but it works.... then use the history brush to fill in.

[ray12]

On tricky pictures like this - I like to use what I call a dynamic slection. A selection where i can try and re-try the selection at will - and make visible and reversable artistic changes that I can see as I go along.

The idea is to put your picture on 1 layer and a contrasting color on a layer below it - for reference - so you can see your work and the edges well as you work.

On that first layer with your picture on it - go to the Layers Pallette and hit the mask button (Square with a circle in it). You will get the mask box that comes up next to your image - Select it - by Clicking on it . Now take your black brush tool and begin painting on your picture itself. Where ever you paint it will erase and you will see the background color from below coming through. Paint away all the stuff you DONT want in your picture. (You will replace this reference layer later with your background picture). When you get close to the dogs edges and you are not happy with the way you have masked it - change your brush color to white and paint your mistake away! Go back to black (hit the "X" key to toggle quickly between white and blacK) and take some more away. Tweek the mask with the black and white brushes till you see what you like.

Since you can see your selection as you are doing it - and you can change your mind at will - it makes selections easier and more dynamic and more fun doing it. In your case with the dog - you could get artistic and retouch your edges to soften them using a soft black brush at 30% opacity. You could also use a brush that emulates dog fur from Nagle's brush collection - or you could use a stippled brush and dab on the edges. Experiment.

If you do something you dont like - change brush to white and re-do it. Or, hit the "control -alt -Z" keys to back yourself up the history pallette to a time just before you made your mistake.

You can also futts with the mask itself just like an image - you can blur it or use the blur brush to soften just a part of an edge - or you can paint with "gray colors" to get semi-transparent selections in certain areas. You might even want to sharpen a masked edge!

If you click this mask while holding down your control button - it will become a traditional selection of marching ants and you can now contract or feather your edges. To do this process backwards - make your best selection first using magic wand or extract or pen or whatever. Now when you hit the mask button - it will use your extracted or magic selection to make a new mask from - then select the mask - and then go in and fiddle with the mask itself dynamically.

Once you have your dog picture finished with its perfect mask beside it - then replace the bottom layer below it with the new background image for your final picture. Touch up the mask - not the selections - to get it JUST PERFECT!

Here's a URL to hundreds of trick brushes from Nagle: http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/photoshopbrushes/

Working with your pets looks like it would be a lot of fun.

Ray12