cityscape

[goose443]

Hi guys,

I've been working on a new piece and I'm getting to the point where it's almost done. I thought I'd put it up here to get some suggestions as well as some critiques. This was all done entirely photoshop without any photographs or references.

[Kraellin]

you drew this freehand from scatch in ps? ok, i'm impressed!

if you're going for photorealism, you're darned close. at first, i had two impressions (if that's what you're going for). one, there seemed to be a lack of texutre overall. but, i looked a bit closer and did find some in the walls. the floors look good, like polished smooth stone of some sort, so wouldnt be much texture there. the bases to the light panels look like concrete, but they dont have any texture like concrete would, but then again, maybe they're not concrete. so, not a biggie there.

the other thing was contrast. i pulled your image and ran it with nothing more than a contrast/lighten adjustment layer. i ran it at 10 light/20 contrast and 20 lighten and 40 contrast. you have to lighten it up a bit or your lose detail in the shadows. this gives it just a bit more punch.

also, when viewing this up close in psp, i got the distinct feeling this was lacking something, like some element was missing. nothing wrong with the picture itself; it just didnt seem complete, like maybe folks shld be viewing something in the light boxes or something, that there was a story to this image, but that it hadnt quite unfolded yet. just an impression as i was looking at it.

overall, i am impressed. if i could do this sort of thing i'd quit eating, quit going out and quit having sex and just sit at the computer and do this all day so, dont pay too much mind to the critique

Craig

[goose443]

Thanks Craig,

I also think there's something missing. I'm not sure what though. I thought maybe people or something more organic but I'm not sure. That's part of why I put it up here. Thanks for the critique. I will definitely consider the texture issues as well as the contrast bit.

[Kraellin]

you're welcome.

what you've got here is called a 'shot', as a friend of mine would call it. it's not quite a complete image until it tells the story. and the story here isnt quite complete yet. this 'shot' would work well as part of montage, for instance, a series of shots that when put together do tell a story. for example, if you had several shots of the same scene, but each showed a step in the aging of the building, from new to run down, that would a story with the one image you posted being a shot in the montage. that make sense?

i really do like it. it's very well rendered and i like the geometry and the lighting. that little glow around the boxes is great. and the skylight effect is also quite convincing. it just doesnt seem 'whole' yet.

so, i'd love to see what you come up with

Craig

[edgework]

Wow. The technique is exceptional. Nice job!

But if you're going for realism, you're going to have to have some dirt. Maybe not a lot, but you simply won't find a surface in the real world that doesn't have some kind of variation across it, either in surface smoothness, color or texture. Even a freshly mopped floor will have mop streaks across it. Where floors and walls meet, dirt tends to accumulate, and if three surfaces come together in a corner, there's more yet. A smooth surface is going to have fingerprints, smears, imperfections in the flatness of the plane. It's not just a matter of making a few grunge masks (http://www.dvgarage.com/ has some doozies for free, by the way). A little dirt never hurt, but I think it's subtle variations across the board that are missing. We're accustomed to the small imperfections that surround us; when they're missing, we might not be able to pinpoint what's wrong, but we know it doesn't quite look real.

[goose443]

Edgework,

I completely agree about the dirt. I just don't want to add it until the image is "locked" and I still think there's more to do to it. That's not an excuse though. I will definitely go back and do a dirt pass before declaring it complete. Thanks for the comments. Here is a new incarnation with some additions. Still not where I want it though. It's funny, the OSX large thumbnail almost looks better than the image itself.

[maureeno]

Goose, I know I'm supposed to say something contructively negative about images in posts but I can't see anything negative to say here.

Maureen

[Cassidy]

Wow goose, impressed

[goose443]

Maureen & Cassidy,

Thanks for the comments.

[maureeno]

Ya know, Goose, you could hang a human X-ray in your centre screen there and have an extraterrestrial "doctor" having a look at it. A version of Twilight Zone, maybe?

Maureen

[goose443]

Maureen,

It does kind of have that Twilight Zone BW to it. It reminds me of 1920's Sci fi.

[twinkissed]

Funny I thought it looked more Demolition Man.

I don't think I see anything wrong with it. The only thing that I got from the photo (once the post was added in) was that because there is so much light from the three squares, it makes the bottom of the post and the right bottom of the picture a bit drab. Maybe if you could move the post up and right and have small round lights glowing up onto the post to even it out?? I dunno, I'm not good at that stuff and you seem fantastic so I feel kinda odd putting in my 2 cents at all. I think I just liked it better before the sign post. I know you said it's not really where you want it so maybe once you move it?? Perhaps the lighting from the post or around it could be more traditional (a teeny tiny bit more on the nonflourescent side) which would make it more realistic. Hard to explain, I can see it in my head but not really sure how to word it.

Regardless... I think this is spectacular!

[goose443]

I Sold Out!

I turned the whole thing into a product shot!

Actually I still have the other version. I was experimenting with creating semi-see through semi-reflective glass and thought the train station picture would make a good background. I'm not a big fan of the sunglasses' design but I think the glass effect holds up pretty well.

[tracypori]

Selling out is OK, after all, who really buys our hard work unless it can profit them or they are a dedicated digital art fan. You did a very nice job on both. What bothered my about the 1st was that although it is clear that the light source is the windows, they appear a bit more like xray screens, there needs to be some sort of activity, even if diffused and if that were the case, the same activity would be diffusely present in the table. Try covering a window in white paper, there are still shadows and light behind them. I like the detail work on the top floor and in my mind this is a library

[Kraellin]

goose,

the rendering is absolutely excellent! no quibbles at all here. but, even with the sunglasses, if your intention here is photo art, then you still need a story of sorts. here's a small example: taking your original piece and the idea of this being a library from tracypori, let's say you added a small girl looking into the middle light panel with a picture of awe on her face. you wouldnt even need anything showing in the light panel. in fact, it would probably be better to leave that part filled in by the viewer. then you've got a picture, a story.

now, if your work here is simply to do a study in light and shadow and glass and reflections and transparencies and so on, then you've done an excellent job!

so, you decide

Craig

[goose443]

Tracy,

The windows are actually meant to be white screens with no image though I find it interesting that you saw them as windows. In that case I completely see your idea that it would be a library. It would definitely make an interesting library.

Craig,

In this case it was just a study in light and reflection though I agree the non-glasses version does need more story to it. I'll see what I can come up with.

Thanks to you both.

[NancyJ]

It looks more like a 3D render than a photograph. Its a very good attempt but I dont think it would fool anyone.
The objects dont quite sit right - they look very detached from the background, the ceiling and floor are great but all the objects look very 'gradient tool'. I think the shadows need some work and definately some dirt and variation.
Dont get me wrong - I couldnt do any better - but I have maya so I could probably recreate most of it in half an hour

[goose443]

Nancy,

It was never really meant to look like a photograph. At least not at this stage. I feel that every program has its limitations and quirks and will give a certain feel to images created using it. For example, if I were to create this same scene using Maya, the overall tone would most likely be different. When illustrating with Photoshop there's a certain feel that is created... almost a hyper-reality... Everything is a little too clean, a little too straight and a little too perfect. I guess it's what you call "gradient tool". It's an aesthetic that is really unique to this type of work though other programs will give you variations of this same thing. In fact media such as airbrush can also work this way. It gives a feeling of lifeless-ness or detachment. Almost like Hopper's Nighthawks painting. This is not to say you can't go full photorealistic in Photoshop but it's not always the goal. I guess if it looks like a rendering it's close to what I want. I'm really not trying to fool anyone as I don't think it's really the ultimate point in most llustration, or in some 3D rendering... unless you're doing special effects for films.

In terms of the objects and shadows, I would love for you to elaborate on any weaknesses so that I can peg them. I completely agree about the dirt and variation but I'm not sure what you mean about the objects being detached from the background. I also want to nail the shadows so any input on those would also be well recieved.

Thanks for the critique. I appreciate the comments and am intrigued to see what you could do in half an hour in maya.

[Kraellin]

In this case it was just a study in light and reflection though I agree the non-glasses version does need more story to it. I'll see what I can come up with.

in this case, like i've said all along, you've done a marvelous job! this would make a great backdrop in a movie like 'sin city' or something along those lines.

so, the next time i look at the original, i'll critique it on that basis. but in all honesty, just from memory, it's pretty damn good

Craig