First retouch - please crit

[Marin]

Well, I retouched my first image... I used a few tricks from Nancy's tutorial at http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=191, and played around with some other tools (Healing brush especially, burn,dodge).
I know I'm an amateur and this is mostly awful, and that's the very reason for posting here. Please crit, advise, help... I'd like to improve, and what's better way to know where I'm wrong than this?

Thanks!

PS: the right one is obviously the original

[KathyNinMD]

Is it really your first retouch? you'll go far! I like the new skin tones very much, and pretty much all of it except for the mouth. I like the slightly devilish and very expressive mouth in the original, but for me, the "perfect lip shape" in the retouch is a bit too generic and takes away a lot of her charm and personality.

KathyN

[anders]

You are certainly doing very well. I think however that it mostly is pitty to glamour away the charm of beautiful girls to such degree that they all look alike. The girl to the left I have seen before - the other real one to the right unfortunately I don't know. I would like one day tp see someone go from your picture to the left to that on the right.
This being said, I think first of all that it is a pitty that you have almost hidden her right eye in the original shot. It would have more effect if she had looked out between the hairs hanging down.
Your photoshop (?) work on her eyes are in my view very successfully done , but her very red lips are somewhat artificial. All together a very good try. Bravo !
Anders

[Marin]

Thanks guys for encouragement!
I am aware I went a bit too far with the mouth, but I actually wanted to give her kind of a dramatic look. But I did go too far. Well, I'll know for the next time

anders: You've got a point there. Since I started working in Photoshop, I got disappointed with a lot of things in the great world outside. I don't believe a single "photo" I see anywhere anymore, since transforming an "ugly duckling" into a beautiful "swan" is only a few hours of work away... But that doesn't mean retouching is bad, it only means it is somewhat too exploited.
And one more thing, I did not take the photo myself, it is from Nancy's tut, and I don't know where she got it, so there's nothing I could do with her right eye, and I'm not experienced enough to move her hair aside and reveal the eye, but it sure is a good idea to give it a try

[MBChamberlain]

Hi and welcome to RP.

Overall, not bad at all for a first attempt. My best advice to you is to remember that 99.999% of the time less is more. Back it down at LEAST 20% from where you end up. I've been doing this about 15 years and I still catch myself overdoing things from time to time.

Keep it up, I have attached a 5 minute quicky job to try and show you what I'm talking about. (BTW I didn't adjust the tones of anything but the lips just enhanced the colors that were already there. I find it yields far more reliable results than trying to create a new skin tone)

Michael

[anders]

Good to have Michael around in this forum to show how such things can be done after many years of experiences. Perfect work in my view.
To Marin I can only say that surely I agree that some retouching if essential for the quality of the final photos, but in this case especially the mouth is overdone and Michael is right, as we can see from his try, the skin should be more natural. But again, you have done a very very good "firsttry". Come back with other examples of your work.
Anders

[NancyJ]

Your work on the skin is excellent, very smooth but natural looking.
The lip colour you've chosen is far too dark for her colouring and this pose, it would be a much better colour on a hispanic model, it would match the olive skin and dark hair. She could possibly get away with it if you lightened it up with some gloss - as it is its very remminicent of the first 'colour stay' lipsticks, that were very thick and dry. It might also work if she had some heavy eye makeup for a 'night time' look. The rest of the picture is a very fresh, natural 'day look'.
The other issue is the eye, the colour is very strong and very flat. By recolouring so havily, you lose all the natural flecks of colour variation. A better way to recolour eyes is to paint over the iris on a soft light layer, you can preserve the natural look of the eye and enhance the colouring at the same time.
Overall your technique is good but your eye for colour needs some work

[skipc]

NancyJ points out precisely why a guy like me has absolutely no business doing glamor retouch. How would I have a clue as to which lipstick, day or night, to use? I had better stick with fishing lures Informative...skip

[Marin]

Thanks everyone for your tips and crits!
Regarding the Nancy's top - you really got me there, I don't understand half of what you said (about the coloring), probably because I never thought make-up is such an art and a complicated thing But I do know I should work on my "color" eye, since I am aware I don't know squat about compositions, coloring etc. Maybe I should look up some info on that. Any suggestions anyone?

[Kraellin]

welcome to RP.

I know I'm an amateur and this is mostly awful,

ok, my only crit here is, stop doing that! self-abnegation and self-denial are something to leave at the door and probably kill off more talented people than anything else. when you pick up your mouse and click on photoshop, psp or whatever you use, you are now a professional. or, if you wish, a professional in training. but just leave the 'i'm horrible', 'i'm no good at this', 'boy, does this suck' and all those other similar comments on the floor. you don the hat, you ARE a professional and that's the hat you don, 'i'm a professional'. you'd be surprised, perhaps, that just in doing that one thing, your skill level might rise just a tad. and NEVER accept anything else.

'being professional' isnt just about being skillful. it's an attitude more than your talent. the talent will come with practice and study. but 'being professional' is a foundation which shld accomany you always, regardless of current skill.

some folks make the distinction that an amateur is someone who doesnt make money from what he does and a pro does. i have to disagree. the difference is in attitude. an amateur dabbles. a pro produces results. and again, this isnt about skill. i've seen mediocre professional singers, but they pull it off for the most part because they ARE professionals, not because they sing better than anyone else.

so, welcome to the pros! and, nice job on the pic, btw

craig

[Marin]

Thanks Craig! I will do my best not to self-abnegate myself anymore, and do my best to be a pro

[Kraellin]

marin,

you'll have to forgive me just a bit. it was late, i was tired and i went into didactic mode just a bit. the jist of the message is still true, but try to also have fun and not take things too seriously as well

craig

[Marin]

no problem craig, I started computer graphics for the very reason to have fun. Up until recently, I was a programmer, but was more and more disgusted with it, and since I always wanted to work with graphics (but was always intimidated because I don't know how to draw), I just tried it one day.. and here I am

thanks for support

[imann08]

Pardon the pun but the first thing that caught my eye was her eye. Way over-done. I'm all for that less is more kind of idea. More like MBC produced. Of course, this is your first and it is great. I am just starting out myself and couldn't do that. Great job.

[Nanls]

(take a midol craig [just kidding] ) Very nice first attempt. I agree the eyes are way overdone. The sign of a good photo retouch is no sign at all.

~Nancy~


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[KR1156]

Just started getting into retouching from mechanical work...just looking for feedback. Thanks.

[edgework]

Tried to make her look like she has real skin... just skin that's better than anyone you know.

http://idisk.mac.com/crawfordhart-Pu...mourblonde.jpg

[PatrickB]

Sorry to say, but all of you have failed in removing the green cast from her hair.

[Jeronimas]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

Sorry to say, but all of you have failed in removing the green cast from her hair.

Maybe no one care about it, all they were doing was retouching skin, btw, why don't you show us how to do that

[PatrickB]

Well that's quite easy, just use selective color on the yellows and turn cyan down

Some tweaking on other colors might be necessary, but I can't tell, it's try and error

[studioj]

I'll agree with all points of view, specially with Nancy about Day Make-Up, and Night Make-Up. Retouching a girl most have some of Make-Up knowledge, not a fully expert knowledge, but some you need to have.

Also, 2 very critical points have been lost on your retouching, the shadow in the nose and the end of the cheek, and the union of the ear. If you lose those shadows, then your model skin looks like ruber.

I'll put those shadows back just to encrease reallity

[makeovermagic]

my version; just wanted to try a different look for her.

MOM

[edgework]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

Sorry to say, but all of you have failed in removing the green cast from her hair.

Sorry to say but you should check your numbers or check your monitor. I read magenta over Cyan and yellow over magenta all through the version I posted. That's a solid blonde, which is closer to neutral than you think. You don't want yellow hair, unless it's a Dick Tracey cartoon.

[PatrickB]

Hi edgework,

it's not about the numbers I talked about. My main goal on image retouching is to make things "pop". Retouching by numbers makes a good sense to me when doing initial color correction as when I do that, I often get boo boo looking at one image for some minutes and trying to adjust minor differences. Skin color's an excellent example for this stuff where numbers are required.

I attached MChamberlains image (hoping he doesn't mind) to show what I meant. The difference becomes clearer when looking at it in photoshop switching back and forth but I hope you can see it though. The cyan makes the image colder, more artificial just as what you get when photographing in poor light. Turning the cyan down on the yellows brings up a warm touch which is just what the look in her eyes says.

Do you think about Dick Tracey when looking at the left one


PS: I personally think a mix of both settings is best to reflect real neutral as my settings add the warm touch which I'm not sure it's wanted. But I liked it best on MChamberlains picture.

[edgework]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

Hi edgework,


Do you think about Dick Tracey when looking at the left one

Not really. But by taking out cyan you've made her hair red, along with the shadow on her cheek. The image on the right is drab, but she's undeniably a blonde. The one on the left needs to go back to her hair salon and tell them to finish the job.

Blonde is one of those godawful "not really anything" colors like brown and gold. A slight excess in one channel or deficit in another and you spill over into red, green, blue or yellow, all of which jump out at you as WRONG. The hair on the right actually does have spots where cyan reads above magenta, and so, yes, there would be a green cast there. But blondes need cyan. Given the drabness of the overall tone, I suspect that the solution is more of a contrast move, targeting different ranges in each channel. But a blanket extraction of cyan just trades one problem for another.

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

it's not about the numbers I talked about. My main goal on image retouching is to make things "pop".

Look at it with your eyes, not your color picker

Originally Posted by PatrickB

I personally think a mix of both settings is best to reflect real neutral as my settings add the warm touch which I'm not sure it's wanted.

Try cyan -5 on the yellows and your numbers should fit.

Patrick

[edgework]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

Look at it with your eyes, not your color picker

Come on; someone as knowledgeable as you must certainly know that the first rule of color work is "Eyes lie." If you look at red hair or green hair long enough, you will see blonde.

Monitors lie too. Rejecting numbers is like Samuel Goldwyn's famous line "Don't confuse me with facts!"

For the record, all I need is my eyes to see that the image you posted is too red. The numbers just tell me how much it's off.

I love Selective Color under the right circumstances, but in this case, it's a battering ram, pulling cyan from everywhere. Curves give a much better result. Try these and see if you don't come up with believable skin tones, and blonde hair.

I ended up using Selective Color, but it was to add 10 magenta to the blacks. Pulled out the hints of green without bathing the rest of the image in plutonium.