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A Light Retouch

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  #21  
Old 02-28-2006, 02:27 PM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
nancy, actually, there is good reason for not favoring pale. the red of the skin comes primarily from blood. pale translates to death, that pale look of death, or, lack of blood.

when i first looked at the original picture, i thought, boy, vampire skin and was tempted to do a joke manipulation with fangs. so, it actually comes from a survival trait.

craig
Thats one way to look at it - but there is ofcourse the flip side of coin - tanned skin can be associated with skin cancer, premature aging and plastic barbie dolls :p

Its a cultural thing more than instinctual. In typical western culture through media we're taught that yellow/orange skin is 'a healthy glow', when in fact its the complete opposite.
In my culture, pale is beautiful and orange skin is generally associated with 'chavs'. ( http://www.chavscum.co.uk/).
So many retouches I see people quoting Katrin Eismans numbers like gospel and changing every photo they have to be a perfect 9% 35% 40% or whatever they are. Not everyone has the same skin colour, some people are pale, some people are olive, its part of who they are, who are we to say that its unnattractive?
Some people just dont suit a tan - like this girl, she's freckly, freckly girls dont tan as a rule and putting fake tan on looks awful, my sister, although not freckled, has that same skin type - very fair, doesnt tan well and looks rediculous in fake tan - she still wears in anyway but what can I say - she's an essex girl.
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  #22  
Old 02-28-2006, 02:54 PM
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sorry, didnt mean to rant. I just wish people would use their heads and their eyes, instead of just 'going by the numbers'.
This 'average caucasian' doesnt exist. Caucasian is just too broad a category. Scandinavian, hispanic, italian and irish are all caucasian but for evolutionary reasons, they all have different natural skintones and colourings.
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  #23  
Old 02-28-2006, 03:10 PM
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This 'average caucasian' doesnt exist. Caucasian is just too broad a category. Scandinavian, hispanic, italian and irish are all caucasian but for evolutionary reasons, they all have different natural skintones and colourings.[/QUOTE]

Very true but blue skinned people are about as rare as average caucasians (unless, as Craig said, they're dead) and in this photo there are definite instances where the skin is at best neutral and often leaning towards a bluish color. In particular check out the shadow areas on the right side of the face. Boosting the yellow in the quartertone while lowering the cyan will correct these issues while still preserving the "paleness" of the skin.
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  #24  
Old 02-28-2006, 03:17 PM
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Retouch

Nancy, you are right on about skin "numbers." Each person is different. I don't know much about Katrin's numbers, but it is probably just a starting reference point which has to be tweaked depending on the skin tone and if it is going to press or not.The appearance on the web and going to press has its own uniqueness. In pre-press we were taught to usually make sure that yellow was set a few percentages above the magenta to avoid a sunburn look. I have some of Scott Kelby's books and it likes many of his skin tone examples are way too magenta. Others have commented on this same thing. Each printer usually will supply their own profile. BTW, I have read that sRGB is not a good profile to have as screen reference. Adobe RGB or perhaps ColorMatch RGB might be a way to go.
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  #25  
Old 02-28-2006, 03:23 PM
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Simple CMYK curve correction boosting the yellow in the quartertone and lowering the cyan. I set the layer to color blend mode over the original image to preserve the contrast lost by lowering the cyan. It's at about 60% opacity. She still preserves her light skinned appearance but the skin is forced out of the bluish neutrality into more believable tones.
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  #26  
Old 02-28-2006, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goose443
Very true but blue skinned people are about as rare as average caucasians (unless, as Craig said, they're dead) and in this photo there are definite instances where the skin is at best neutral and often leaning towards a bluish color. In particular check out the shadow areas on the right side of the face. Boosting the yellow in the quartertone while lowering the cyan will correct these issues while still preserving the "paleness" of the skin.
FWIW, blue skinned people do exist

There is a discolouration on the right side shadow (which could be caused by a number of things) but it isnt in any way indicative of the rest of her skin colour - which is highest in magenta, not cyan.
Just colour correcting for flash (on the whole image, not just the skin) this is what I come up with.

BTW, the more I work on this image, the more I'm convinced it isnt an original, I could be wrong but there are some indicators.
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  #27  
Old 02-28-2006, 09:58 PM
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ok, just in case some of that 'rant' was directed at me, i made no comment on whether 'pale' was good or bad, or attractive or not, simply that that may have been where the trend comes from, at least in western culture.

i also recall something regarding what Ro said about 'pale' being highly valued. good point.

and nancyj, i NEVER go by the numbers. Katrin who?

i'm only posting this because you quoted me, nancyj, and that made me wonder if you were directing that post at me.

craig
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  #28  
Old 02-28-2006, 10:38 PM
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Ret

Phil, let me know how this update appears on your monitor. Also, I'm getting the sense that there is some tense stuff going between some folks here. It's ok to agree to disagree, but...
Have I opened a can of worms here? It's just a critique and all this is supposed to be fun and a learning experience. steveb
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  #29  
Old 03-01-2006, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
ok, just in case some of that 'rant' was directed at me, i made no comment on whether 'pale' was good or bad, or attractive or not, simply that that may have been where the trend comes from, at least in western culture.

i also recall something regarding what Ro said about 'pale' being highly valued. good point.

and nancyj, i NEVER go by the numbers. Katrin who?

i'm only posting this because you quoted me, nancyj, and that made me wonder if you were directing that post at me.

craig
I wasnt ranting at you craig, but I do disagree that the fondness for tanned skin is primal/instictual or some kind of survival trait. Throughout history in a variety of different cultures - not just western, pale has been considered to be the height of fashion. Tanned or pink skin was the mark of someone who worked outdoors - which is ofcourse, terribly common and not at all fashionable High society ladies would whiten their skin with egg whites and lead powder (beauty at any cost, ladies?)
Its only really since hollywood and colour movies that this look has become popular.

Last edited by NancyJ; 03-01-2006 at 03:58 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-01-2006, 03:42 AM
Mig Mig is offline
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I like all women, so I don't care what colour skin they have. Blue skin? I like blue skin.

I didn't read thru the whole thread, so I'm not sure if anyone gave feedback to the orginal poster regarding the retouch of this woman. The only thing I didn't like was you overlooked the tag on her sweater.

Mig
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