First Try at Coloring a B&W

[imann08]

I think this turned out pretty well but would like to hear everyone's opinion on it. I put the radial gradient on the background just for fun but I'd like to know if you think it's a good idea or bad. I think the color may be a bit too saturated but don't know. I think it's lacking something but I'm not sure. It just doesn't look as realistic as I would like it to look. I think it may have to do with the fact that I took all the noise out of the skin and should have left some behind. Let me know. The original can be found at http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/critiques/13283-tell-me-what-i-did-wrong.html

[aylaah]

Personally I think it looks great!

I really love the coloured B&W and selective colour and B&W look, it is probably my absolute favourite thing to do, lol.

I'm sure those with a much more discerning eye will have some more constructive comments than I do, but I really like it!

[NancyJ]

Its a good start! I think the skin colour is a little on the yellow side and the teeth are a bit 'hollywood'
The other thing is the lack of colour variation, nobody is a flat colour all over, try to vary the colours, eg for skin the darker areas will usually have more red and the lighter areas more yellow, just the subtlest variations will make a good picture great!

[Ziaphra]

I love your colourization! The problem for me, with this image is that it is too soft. I hope you don't mind me making a few adjustments. First I did a skin enhancement and warmed the picture up overall. Then I sharpened it and added some noise. Then I did a bit of copy and paste to try and bring the hair into focus a bit and I enhanced her eyes and lips to give them a tad more focus too. Also...as much as we would like it, teeth and the white of the eyes would not be such a pristine white so I added a touch of colour there too. I have linked to imageshack as the pic is 540kb and I didn't want you to lose any of the size or quality in trying to upload it here.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3862/rtp17gz.jpg

[NancyJ]

Had a quick go at demonstrating what I was saying about colour variation - its not a great job I know, but I dont want to be late for work

[imann08]

aylaah: Thanks for the high. I appreciate it

NancyJ: Thanks for ruining that high. jk
Seriously, I think you are right about the skin color being a little too yellow. I did use a second tint on this picture though. It is not totally flat. If you look at the end of the thread I posted in my first post you will see what it looks like with just one color. I also did add some color in the cheeks. I think color is maybe my biggest problem. If you know of any good skin color swatch palettes out there I'm all ears. The colors I used are off a swatch palette that I found. I can't lie, the teeth are not colored at all. They are just the black and white. I kept looking at them throughout the coloring of the picture but decided to leave them as is. I definitely know what you are talking about.

Ziaphra: The softness of the picture is the main thing that I was concerned about while doing this. I do feel that you went overboard on the noise addition though. The print I scanned was one of those old ones with a texture so I was trying to get rid of all of it and just went a bit too far. I would just bring it back very mildly though myself. Since this is the first one that I have done I was kind of liking it even though it had a sort of fake retouched look to it. That's not something I will want to continue though so you are right.

For those who didn't look at my first thread on this where I was simply retouching the black and white, this is a picture of my mom's graduation picture.

[imann08]

NancyJ: Yours really makes mine look yellow when it's next to yours. Like I said in the post I just wrote, I have a hard time with colors. BTW, I did this in LAB instead of RGB. I think it works better. It is very difficult to know how your color is going to show up on the picture when you are working in color mode. At least for a novice such as myself. thanks for the input, I appreciate it very much. Without a board like this where everyone is so helpful it is difficult to improve. A second opinion is always worthwhile.

[Ziaphra]

You did a damn fine job for a first timer! I had already had a second look at the pic and had noticed I had put too much noise, so removed some of it, gave her skin more of a peachy colour and deepened the shadows a tad to give it more depth.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2797/rtp23gw.jpg

[imann08]

Ziaphra: That look a lot better but I still have a problem with the noise. It may just be me but I have a big problem with noise. Even that second one you did looks like it was taken with a 800 ISO. In my opinion, noise is not to be that noticeable. It should simply be just enough to make the image not look as smooth as mine and adjust for any corrections or blurring that might have been done. I notice your noise more than I notice the person in the picture. Like I said though, you are right about mine not having enough and what I am saying here is just my opinion and am interested in hearing what others say about it. Due to a lack of experience I only have my opinion and what I read in books which doesn't cover everything. Thanks again.

[NancyJ]

Another thing I noticed - is you missed a bit
On the left hand side where her hair meets her face.

[Verywierd]

Nice job overall.

It may be my monitor, but the skin tone still seemed a bit off, so here is my try, with a little sharpening around the sides of the face and a little pearl in the teeth and very little additional grain or noise (I hope).

http://www.photography.verywierd.com...1_Color2bj.jpg

[imann08]

NancyJ:

I saw that missed spot before I posted it but just posted this anyways cause I wanted to hear what people had to say. I didn't realize that I had missed it until I actually printed it out on photo paper. Do you have any info on skin tone swatches that are available? Just wondering.

[imann08]

Verywierd:

That was very nice. NancyJ originally pointed out about the skin color so I agree with that. I like what you did with that plus the sharpening of the sides of the face. Basically all the little edits you made made a difference. Could you tell me the numbers of the colors you used in the face? I'd appreciate it. I don't know if I'd use those exactly but I'm looking to collect some colors to develop a skin swatch of my own. Oh, also the pearl that you used for the teeth. What kind of opacity did you use for that? Less than 100%? Just wondering.

[klassylady25]

Attached you will find skin and hair colors.

Also, remember that "noise" level is subjective based on the artist's perception.

[Verywierd]

Originally Posted by imann08

Verywierd:

That was very nice. NancyJ originally pointed out about the skin color so I agree with that. I like what you did with that plus the sharpening of the sides of the face. Basically all the little edits you made made a difference. Could you tell me the numbers of the colors you used in the face? I'd appreciate it. I don't know if I'd use those exactly but I'm looking to collect some colors to develop a skin swatch of my own. Oh, also the pearl that you used for the teeth. What kind of opacity did you use for that? Less than 100%? Just wondering.

I'm afraid that the skin tone was done visually. I find that unless you intend to revert to black and white and start over, using a "standard" tone on top of what is already there does not usually work. Either the new layer is so heavy that it looks like stage makeup or the previous shade still show through and blend into something that you do not want.

As for the the teeth, it was a blurred cream yellow applied at a very low opacity, something like 5-10% in soft light blending mode.

[imann08]

Ok, I've made some corrections, alterations, etc. I changed the skin tone a bit to make it a little more red. I added some noise and sharpened it a little more and I took the Hollywood out of the teeth and took it out of the eyes a bit. It's frustrating cause it never looks the same when I stick it in jpg to upload to the forum. For instance the noise is more apparent than I wanted it to be or that it appeared in photoshop.

I mentioned this earlier but I am using LAB for this. I think it works extremely well for this. I also use solid color fill adjustment layers to add the color for each area. That also seems to work well. It makes it a lot easier to alter coloring that I have done if I so choose.

Finally, for anyone who is making money on this stuff I was just wondering what people charge for this. What would you charge for this in particular? If you could give me an idea of the average or your own for this and then what you think I could get away with for this stuff. I'm going to hope that I'm good enough for this to be worth more than a six-pack of beer.

Anyways, thanks again in advance and check out my update.

[NancyJ]

I dont like the noise - too heavy and too large. IF you really want to add noise, make it very very light - almost unnoticeable.
I still dont like the skin either - the colour is too heavy, like thick stage makeup all over her body. I'm you take your original and compare it with a desat of this one, I think you will find that your colourisation has affected the luminosity as well as colour (ever so slightly) In your b&w image you have parts of her skin that are very bright - almost white, they should stay that way, otherwise the colour looks 'applied' like makeup.
If you're working in LAB anyway, work on the A & B channels, then you can be sure you are not affecting the L.

[Kraellin]

imann,

well, you've added some saturation, color and opacity, but it's now starting to look a bit 'thick' to me, like too much paint on the canvas. it's also a bit too orange-yellow still, at least to me.

on the other hand, with this being your first colorizing project, i think you've done a remarkable job so far!

skin tones are tricky. it's an area i have problems with also. and as someone else pointed out, skin tones over black and white can also be tricky. to me it's quite acceptable. this is what i meant by it having a '50's look' to it. that was actually a style back then. and since this is an older picture, i find that quite acceptable.

i warn you also, anything you post in the 'critique' forum is going to be scrutinized to death and there is always a risk of overwhelming someone with all the 'faults' one can find in any image. 'perfection' is an absolute and i'm here to tell you, there are NO absolutes in this universe; none! so, at some point, just thank everyone for their help and make your own decision that this is done. for the most part you've got it. your mother would love it, i'm sure. we're nitpickers that nitpick over nitpicking here dont compromise your own reality over what is right or what is done, but at the same time, dont fall into the trap that 'everyone else knows best and i must listen to them all'. that will kill you for sure

craig

[imann08]

Craig: I'm sorry to report that Isaac has since passed away. They said it was due to trying to stick everyone's opinion into his picture at the same time.

I actually agree with you on the idea of that 50's look as long as it isn't too harsh. I want it to be somewhat realistic as well. I am totally guilty of thinking that everyone else knows best though. I tend to not take me own gut feeling on these matters at all. Mostly it's cause I am just starting out on this stuff and don't think I know anything. I do like to come to the critique section though, cause I do like to have myself ripped to shreads sometimes. To me that is how you learn as long as the people who rip tell you the better way to do it and the people here do.

It pleases me a great deal to hear your compliments though. I think I am doing much better with this than I thought I was capable of so that is pleasing in and of itself.

I do have a great deal of trouble with this skin tone stuff. It's very hard to foresee what you are going to get when you print it out and what I have on photoshop always looks better to me there than it does in the jpeg I send you guys. I often can't see the yellow tint in something until it's sitting next to something that is done better. Someone here did that earlier. Oh, well that's what experience provides I guess.

I'll be posting one more in a bit if you want to come and take a look. I am totally in agreement with the overpainted look but am having a hell of a time removing it. Any detailed suggestions?

NancyJ: I didn't really understand your suggestion. Can you explain it? I don't know what you mean by just working in the b channel. Is it as simple as highlighting that channel, keeping everything else visible and working on it like that? What else does it involve? Or is it something completely different? Sometimes I miss the obvious. I tend to make things too confusing at times.

[Kraellin]

well, say a kind word at his funeral for me

i took your image and adjusted it. the process was pretty simple. you're very close. i used psp 10's adjustment layer, 'color balance'. this divides the image into ranges, lows, mids, highs and channels, r, g, b. thus, you can adjust the low r, g, b's and so on across the boards.

what you want to remember, regardless of what you use is, blue counters yellow. so, what i did in color balance was to raise the reds a bit in each range, and raise the blues a bit in each range.

as a final step, i added a hue/sat/lightness adjustment layer and lowered the saturation to -15.

and that was it.

so, you can see, you arent far off. mine isnt perfect either, but i like it

and yes, posting with this 100k limit can mess things a bit, but it's usually not enough to at least tell what's going on.

craig

[imann08]

I have got a fairly good base with color but that is it. So in other words I know what the opposites are of each of the main colors. I use this alot. I know to reduce a color to get more of its opposite. The one thing that you mentioned is the use of the hue/sat adjustment. I never thought about using that. Stupid, I know but there are so many damn things you can use to accomplish the same thing that sometimes you just forget about one or another. The only thing that I think is wrong with yours and is the case obviously with mine is it's too red I think. I used the opacity on this version and I think I was able to cut down both the reds and yellows well. Let me know if you think it is still looking to made up. I did reduce the noise significantly as well. Anyhoo, here it is.

[Kraellin]

ok, that looks better. just one thing (there's always just 'one more thing', isnt there ), when you paint, particularly with airbrush, always do it on a separate layer and when done, always check it over and erase the bits where you've painted 'outside the lines'. her glasses, in this case, seem to have been painted with the skin tone colors, but not erased.

hue/sat, channel mixer, or color balance would all have worked (not sure how many of those correspond in PS).

craig

[imann08]

Craig,

All the color layers are done in separate layers. I used color adjustment layers so I could change the colors as well if I wanted. With the glasses, that was done on purpose. The color is actually different than the skin a little bit. Those glasses are clear and the color from her skin would show through the glasses. That's why it is in the glasses but a bit lighter. I think that is what you are talking about. Could you clarify if it isn't?

Isaac

[Kraellin]

With the glasses, that was done on purpose. The color is actually different than the skin a little bit. Those glasses are clear and the color from her skin would show through the glasses.

ah, ok. in that case, good catch

craig

[familytreephoto]

her teeth look a bit grey to me :P
i still aint sure about the left eyebrow....looks like it might need a bit more color.

hope ur havin fun imann.