novice in need of advice

[igot2pman]

I am a bit new to detailed editing and i am in need of advice on how to take it to the next level. Any comments good or bad are welcome, say as little or as much as you want.

If you need any more info I can be of assistance, or if this editing is beyond you, I can go into more detailed descriptions on how I edited.

All advice is good advice, if you think it’s no good then say so. But if you think so then please offer some advice on how you would make it better or offer a different technique. I thank you in advance for taking the time.

This pictures editing process:
-got rid of blemishes w/heal and patch
-Exposure - lowered offset to remove haze
-Brightness/contrast - adj
-Levels - to correct color cast
-B&D (burn/dodge) - B-cheeks :: D-under eyes, nose, dark spots
-Sample whites - to emphasize highlights
-paint - filled in nose highlight with white
-De-grunged - <L1>light surface and glosson blur :: <L2> hi-pass (vivid light, OP 38%)
-Curves - to remove harsh nose shadow
-Liquify- to remove a very slight kink in nose

I am not very good at D&B and I am unsure on how to take it to the next level. I am good, I think, at D. But my B mostly have problems, it ends up looking a bit reddish. It makes me wonder if just painting in blacks or grays would be better?

Below is a link to larger previews:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22933397@N02/2906832665/

--Thanks for looking

[TommyO]

A brief description of the particular look you were trying to achieve may help. It certainly does not fit the traditional glamour retouch, as it is much too harsh and over-done.

Regarding your workflow.... Is this the actual order in which you performed the tasks ? If so, you may want to review your workflow and move a few steps. This may help with some of the issues with the image.

Regarding taking it to the next level... that may depend on my first question, what look you are trying to achieve. I could answer based upon a glamour retouch, but if I'm wrong on that assumption, then it's wasted typing. Let's get that answered first.

[igot2pman]

As for the type or look, I use the word "glamour"; I may be using it wrong. But basically I am trying for a smooth even tone and 3-d looking. I would even go as far as maybe calling it porcelain smooth but with detail.

You said it was over-done, this means i need to edit. What would you change or remove?

I understand the actual photo used is not traditional; I just don’t have models at my disposal. The point of this is to practice editing and develop.

Below are some photo examples,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/manelst...85088/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2941323...91193/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/puretou...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/puretou...07376/sizes/o/

I think this was the order:
-got rid of blemishes w/heal and patch
-Exposure - lowered offset to remove haze
-Brightness/contrast - adj
-Levels - to correct color cast
-Sample whites - to emphasize highlights
-paint - filled in nose highlight with white
-B&D (burn/dodge) - B-cheeks :: D-under eyes, nose, dark spots
-Curves - to remove harsh nose shadow
-De-grunged - <L1>light surface and glosson blur :: <L2> hi-pass (vivid light, OP 38%)
-Liquify- to remove a very slight kink in nose

Now when it come to the actual order it was a little back and forth, I would go through one and then go back later to the adj layer and re-edit the problems found

-thanks for helping

[igot2pman]

I took what you said and edited my approch. Re-edited the whole thing.

The knowlege of the previous ed made things alot faster and smoother. After a hard eye looking, I determened there could be improvments.

I basicly did the same except in fewer and better steps:
-Fixed hole in hair, and made a cleaner bang (used patch tool)
-Retained skin color (by doing alot of basic editing within RAW conversion)
-More natual eye (copyed then unsharp mask)

I have posted my updated picture and also skreenshots of my flow B4 and new.

Tell me what you think? Better? Worse?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2293339...91236/sizes/o/

-Thanx for your time

[TommyO]

The new image is certainly better than the first. And, we have to consider that this photo was not taken to be a glamour shot, and will be hard to make into one for that reason.

My biggest concern is with the workflow. I generally like to see much of the color/tone correction (stuff you did last) done first. Then do the skin smoothing, refining, D&B, etc. Then at the end, we should see a few final tweaks/adjustment layers, as well as a final sharpening. You may get much better skin toning results by reviewing and possibly changing your workflow.

[igot2pman]

I understand why you would color correct first. This would give you a better view of what your end picture will look like, then fix the problems found. i will deffinetly start trying to do this.

I also get that the picture is deffinetly not a glamor pose or ment to be a glamor picture. The flash used was an on camra flash (making things flat).

I need to find a model or someone to take the time to fake be one. then i will try this again.

I have one more question, if you were editing this picture, about how long would it take you to finnish?

If anyone elce has suggestions please voice them

-Thanks for looking

[TommyO]

Actually, it's not so you can have a better view of how your end picture will look like. It has more to do with how the tools interact with adjacent pixels. If you color correct first, you get better results from the various tools, as the adjacent pixels' tonality better match each other. If you don't color correct first, you can get weird results from the tools and unexpected results from your color correction later. This results in frustration and poor quality retouches.

Regarding time, it can vary greatly when not under contract for a fixed cost. You could play with it for quite some time. For respectable results, the quickest may be 40 minutes.

[TommyO]

Oh, and I forgot, I once wrote a short description of the various levels in the retouch workflow. I thought I would repeat them here for your use:

Level 1, 5-10 minutes; comes with shoot:
- remove larger imperfections, distractions.
- basic color correction.
- basic/general clean up of shot.

Level 2, 15-20 minutes, comes with shoot:
- skin smoothing.
- improve catch-lights.
- improve glare.

Level 3, 30 - 60 minutes, extra charge:
- modify skin color to add glamour, contrast.
- improve eyes, lips, overall facial features.
- improve hair.
- sculpt body, face, etc.

Level 4, time varies, extra charge:
- global changes to color, lighting.
- adding special effects.
- adding your own special/creative touches.

[jagerman]

Looks like someone watched Christy Schuler's skin tutorials but maybe did not listen.

[igot2pman]

Jsgerman,

Two questions:

What picture are you talking about? New or first edit?

What specificly did i not listen to, what can I do to improve?

[jagerman]

By the way, great screen name!

Anyway, I am not a big fan of blurring anything except maybe a layer mask. If you are gonna blur and then bring the texture back with a highpass layer, you need to watch what your are doing so it does not look blurred. Like, keep the blur out of the hair, eyes, teeth, clothing, etc... Lower the opacity on that blur layer a bit and the highpass layer should just be enough to bring the texture back to wear it was. Personally, I would spend a bit more time learning how to do it correctly and less on how to hide the errors of your ways.

I am not a retouching god or anything. After 11 years of doing this, I am still learning new things all the time and trying to find my niche. It is just my 2 cents. Good luck!

[chillin]

igot2pman, did you try to use D&B? Here a quick tut if you need one.

[igot2pman]

Just wanted to thank everyonefor all their help. If anyone elce wishes to still comment I will still listen.

I also wanted to follow up with the hopefully final picture. In my view its a world apart from the older versions.


Click below for higher resolution:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2293339...17859/sizes/o/

-thanks for looking

[igot2pman]

Hi chillin,

I did for removing discolorations, but i have not yet grasped exactly how to fake shadows and hilights for the 3d Effect. I am working on it, but progress is slow on that front.

On my last Post and picture, I tryied my hand at a cheek (right side) and nose hilight , you might not be able to see it. I also burned the shadows to fill in the shadow gaps. I didnt want to get to daring as i do not know what i am doing yet. But all in all i am progressing.

My next project is to take some pictures with glamor in mind, ie. better lighting. And then try my hand again.

If you have and Tips on D&B i would gladly give them a try. Feel free to give expert advice, ima quick learner. Just not a quck master, I probably know more then im good at. Just have to practice.

-Thanks for advice

P.S. im using CS3

[TommyO]

For that particular image, your last retouch is just about right. Good color, tonality, contrast, etc. Good job !