Beginner's Extreme Retouch. Critiques Encouraged

[MarioRetouchPRO]

Hey dudes, I'm relatively new at photo retouching so I wanted to emulate the kind of things I see on these forums. I did a google search for extra large images of faces and went to work. I'd love some pointers about anything I may have missed, or things I can do differently. I'm not super-familiar with all of the tools in photoshop but I'm eager to learn. My goal is to get a feel for what professionals would do with the same image I worked on. Thanks!

Here are the links to higher-rez versions:

Before-
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...MinskWoman.jpg

After-
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...tion/Done2.jpg

[Veralisa]

I love the results of her new diet! Thinner yet not too thin. Great work.

Veronica

[MarioRetouchPRO]

:-P thanks Veralisa! I have a few female friends who I think were offended by how thin I made her look. I had to explain to them that I'm just trying to reproduce what the industry considers beautiful, and that it's not necessarily my idea of ideal beauty.

[pellepiano]

All ethics aside, very well done. Impressive.

[MarioRetouchPRO]

Thank you Pelle Piano, I appreciate the kind words. If you have any tips or suggestions I'd be up to hearing them. ;-)

[vlasta]

It retouching job is very impressive.

On the other hand it is so extreme that I would not recognize the person.

[cun030876]

I'd buy it if someone tells me that this is the photo of the same woman 10 years later.
Cool job dude!

[MarioRetouchPRO]

Thanks guys. You're right, it is pretty extreme.

[Godmother]

I think that's a technically correct insult.

[MarioRetouchPRO]

I got that feeling, but I wasn't insulted by it. I just understood the gist of the statement.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by MarioRetouchPRO

I got that feeling, but I wasn't insulted by it. I just understood the gist of the statement.

no, I meant what u did on the model.

[MariusTank]

Seen from a retouch perspective it's very well done and shows off some of your skills. I like it (and im not talking ethically here).

[LQQKER]

Nice result, but not the same person.

Although I'm going against the grain, the result you obtained has little to do with a retouch, more like drastic Michael Jackson plastic surgery . . . but with a more appealing conclusion. A family member would not recognize the end image.

I realize that tabloids often obtain images from paparazzi and make them better or worse, depending on their fictitious story, however, most keep the features that makes up the individual, otherwise where is the lead in to the story?

If your goal was to just make an attractive woman, without regards to the original, you done well. Long story made short . . . "whatever floats your boat".

[MarioRetouchPRO]

I see what you mean. I figured that drastically altering the woman's appearance while trying to make her attractive was the next step above just airbrushing her skin and tweaking the levels. Since I don't have a lot of experience I wanted to see how far I could push it without getting too "in over my head". But yes, you're right, the way I'll need to treat an image that I'm working on will depend of the kind of job or the purpose for the retouching.

[dwallace29]

The bridge of the nose looks completely different. The millimeter difference between the eyes appears to be changed in such a way that you would have used the clone tool to move the right eye completely. And you claim to be an amateur. No dude, I am an amateur and this seems to be a joke! Too well done, for an amateur.

[MarioRetouchPRO]

You're right about the bridge of the nose and the distance between the eyes. For things like that, I like to use the "liquify" filter. There are a lot of changes on the original that are so small and subtle I wonder why I even toiled over them when they won't be visible. It's all good practice, but I know the industry wants us to be able to do what we do really quickly. I need to improve on that.
I only consider myself an amateur because i'm new to retouching. But I am a trained artist with an undergraduate degree in painting, so I have a decent understanding of form, color, texture, light, shadow, and perspective. :-P I pretty much need to learn about the software and the retouching industry.

[dennisonb]

nice job with the reshaping. You have a good eye for what the form should look like!

I for one might be interested in occasionally hiring you just for the liquefy work. It's enough to save your "mesh" and send that as the final work product.


-dennison

www.dennisonbertram.com

[MarioRetouchPRO]

Thanks Dennison! I took a look at your website and I was impressed. Yeah, if you would ever like to work together just shoot me an e-mail, I'm up for it.

[LloydM]

Originally Posted by LQQKER

more like drastic Michael Jackson plastic surgery . . . but with a more appealing conclusion. A family member would not recognize the end image.

Way Different than a Michael Jackson thing..!

It is a fairly drastic "weight loss" change. I put the first up.. went outside came back after a bit and I had the retouched on the other monitor with the first off but could see a resemblence -- Was like not seeing a person for a pretty good while. Kinda like she was from a small mid-west town, went to live in the big city, and came back with the big city look

Looking at the two side by side there is definately a differance -- Nice work

Lloyd - -<

[MarioRetouchPRO]

Thanks Lloyd, that's an interesting way to think about it. It's really helpful for me too, to put something on screen and then walk away from it just so I can look at it with a fresh set of eyes.

[camilla_k]

hi i appreciate that you probably tried really hard etc. but you took it too far.

this is an insult to the woman on the picture.
the before and after seems a bit pointless since its not the same person any more.

you enhance what is already good and disguise the things that is not so good. you do not CHANGE them.

as for the actual retouch, there is some comments enclosed. lets pretend i am your annoying client cause my comments are pretty much what you can expect to hear... nothing personal.

[MarioRetouchPRO]

Camilla, I appreciate that you took the time to express your opinion at all. I don't take it personally. That kind of critique is exactly what I invited, so I'm not gonna freak when I get it. I do admit that there are some things about what you said that either don't understand, or don't agree with. But there are things that you said that I do understand and agree with. I'm gonna look at my image hard with your criticisms and I appreciate them.

[camilla_k]

Originally Posted by MarioRetouchPRO

Camilla, I appreciate that you took the time to express your opinion at all. I don't take it personally. That kind of critique is exactly what I invited, so I'm not gonna freak when I get it. I do admit that there are some things about what you said that either don't understand, or don't agree with. But there are things that you said that I do understand and agree with. I'm gonna look at my image hard with your criticisms and I appreciate them.

best of luck!! xx

[mia-x]

uh, the criticisms are insane. this picture is pretty much near perfect. and as far as people being so sensitive about what you did- wake up. that's the the world of art and fashion. do you think celebrities and models look the same in real life as they do on the covers of magazines? get real.

[shamrock2008]

Amazing work and skill shown, I wont harp on about it looking like another person but the work is great !

[shawbe]

The level of detail it took to accomplish the finished product was outstanding. Better to achieve that level of competence and understand the requirement may be to "tone it down" a notch than to not have the ability to do what you are capable of. You'll find your niche.

Outstanding work

[Markzebra]

I also don't agree with some of Camilla's markups. I think the source material is not that great, so its NEVER going to look perfect. So looking at it purely as an excercise in reshaping -

Reshaping has certainly been done with a fair degree of talent. Sure its not perfect, I think there is room to look at the forehead, its not right on some way, and her tits and back are too "cartoon" slightly. But these are fairly minor criticisms, it always helps to get a fresh eye, and LISTEN, which is what you are doing. The face shape I would leave as you've done it.

I real life, for real work, you would rarely be asked to do anything this severe, as far as reshaping goes. Most professional models have the basics, although some do have slight squints and that type of thing that are routinely corrected.

[camilla_k]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

I also don't agree with some of Camilla's markups. I think the source material is not that great, so its NEVER going to look perfect. So looking at it purely as an excercise in reshaping -

maybe i was a bit harsh looking at it again. critiques was encouraged so. ehm. yeah. SORRY!


maybe its worth getting something a bit more realistic to practice your work on as well... you have proven to us that you can reshape and mold people. how about focusing more on the skin and its textures, the colors, the light etc. see if you can find a suitable picture somewhere (?)

you sure got talent and like markzebra is saying, you will rarely be asked to do such a dramatic job anyway.
keep practicing photoshop and i'll practice on internet politeness...