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A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

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  #21  
Old 01-17-2012, 07:54 PM
Eikon Eikon is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kav View Post

Edit: don't add fake pores, that is just silly
that was a joke

kav, im interested in the workflow you use if you're basically not using healing or cloninng to fix things. do you have any good threads you've written or contributed to that would be informative here?

not to threadjack from scoob, but im sure it would be helpful.
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:13 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eikon View Post
that was a joke

kav, im interested in the workflow you use if you're basically not using healing or cloninng to fix things. do you have any good threads you've written or contributed to that would be informative here?

not to threadjack from scoob, but im sure it would be helpful.
There's no mystery, but I'm really bad at describing things. I rebuild large zits and stuff all the time just so that I can set the flow of the skin texture. I adjust the density to match when necessary. If it would otherwise take several attempts to clone or heal for a lesser result, that wouldn't really save me any time. It's just a process of analyzing for the most part. I get rid of things that are distracting, but I don't like to interrupt the texture. I like to maintain a really precise flow. It would be easier to show an example, but i'm just procrastinating/taking a break by posting on here right now.

Basically using too many rough tools and global adjustments tends to work you into a corner when you just want to maintain flow in the texture and lighting. Doing it in a softer manner also makes it easier to balance the color of the skin. If the curves are cranked too much or anything like that, it can be just brutal working out any weird skin shifts (which at times can be many).

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
All that I can see are small hairs (those light blonde ones) coming through the foundation. There must be some sort of procedure to increase this local contrast, and I have tried different blurs and high passes, yet it never gives pores that "pop". It just ends up looking oversharped, and this raw is way too sharp to begin with.

This is my first detailed beauty retouch, so I think I fared quite well, I just don't know when to stop and when it's perfect enough.

I've done that before (tried to enhance local contrast). It never looks good. Trust me on this. You feel like an area is lacking depth so you try to enhance the contrast at a very low level. Then things look too rough. Then you end up retouching them further to compensate, and it start to look like you sandblasted her face. I can see the start of it here, but it's not bad. Note what I was saying about shaping and tapering lighting. That would give you the look you want because it would have more flow which would prevent the flat look.

Next topic... if the little hairs will be too noticeable when printed then tone them down. Sometimes if they have a beard effect I'll mask an edge and sort of rebuild it to reduce that issue, but it takes some subtlety (and you have to be able to pen mask really smooth continuous curvature for the first step) or it will look bad.

This is kind of why I don't post too often. My explanations take a while to type so I end up on a longer break than intended. I'm not the best at this stuff. I've just done a lot of it, and I pay a lot of attention to lighting and behavior of things. There are plenty of people that are way better, but I can at least encourage a few of you to drop bad habits .
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:18 PM
Eikon Eikon is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Kav... Interesting. Sounds like it takes forever. Woukd love to see some sample images of this process when you have time. For now ill give scoob his thread back!
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:21 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

@kav

Damn! That was well put! I completely got it the first time around, this is really crystal clear.

I sometimes Like the "sandblasted" look (hahaha). http://gavinoneill.com/ Seems to me that Gavin does it well.

Do these 2 of my images look bad, or just weird? Strange can be good, or at least good-enough, but I'd hate for them to look unprofessional.

P.S. I am so sorry you have to endure my horrible English writing skills.
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:24 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eikon View Post
Kav... Interesting. Sounds like it takes forever. Woukd love to see some sample images of this process when you have time. For now ill give scoob his thread back!
It's still relevant. It doesn't take long. I burn and dodge quite a lot. if it's a really tiny spec or something sure I clone it out. I just can't stand cloning out a bunch of stuff that cumulatively creates problems. You just work on the bigger stuff first and you hit a point where you're down to cloning out distractions. It's much less annoying than spending many attempts trying to get just the right healing or clone stroke without repeating patterns, messing up densities, etc. I don't spend as much time as you'd think. I mean I spend some time, but I try not to create my own problems while retouching which is one of the biggest time sinks of them all (and quite common).
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:29 PM
Eikon Eikon is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Ok last question... I think i remember readin in other threads you dont like the standard freq seperation technique for skin touchups? Or did i misunderstand.
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:32 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eikon View Post
Ok last question... I think i remember readin in other threads you dont like the standard freq seperation technique for skin touchups? Or did i misunderstand.
I am interested about the answer to this question too. Also, would you 2 reply on my question concerning weather these images are good-enough or not even close? Do they appear as something not done by a professional?
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:36 PM
Eikon Eikon is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Scoob, to me they look good. The screen rigt eye needs work as kav pointed out but i think its a better first attempt than your first image. Im not a pro, so i cant say for sure, but i dont think it comes off as "ameture"
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:49 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
@kav

Damn! That was well put! I completely got it the first time around, this is really crystal clear.

I sometimes Like the "sandblasted" look (hahaha). http://gavinoneill.com/ Seems to me that Gavin does it well.

Do these 2 of my images look bad, or just weird? Strange can be good, or at least good-enough, but I'd hate for them to look unprofessional.

P.S. I am so sorry you have to endure my horrible English writing skills.
His work is heavy for my taste (can't emphasize the last part enough). I think you're more attracted to his handling of lighting in post than the texture remaining on skin. They're two different things. It has a little more flow to it. I thought English was your native language, so I don't think you need to worry. On those two images, they could look better than they do presently. You could improve them. It's just that you seem like you're at a point of banging your head against the wall trying to make certain tools work. It happens, but it's very limiting. Improvement on technique would allow you to be pickier and refine your tastes because you'd have more control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eikon View Post
Ok last question... I think i remember readin in other threads you dont like the standard freq seperation technique for skin touchups? Or did i misunderstand.
Correct. It adds unnecessary data. I keep meaning to post my example on that thread, but that would require me to do it (and I have the attention span of a gerbil on crack). It often adds trails because they aren't entirely separated, and the advantage is kind of an illusion. You can still screw things up. It can cover your mistakes a little, but then when you do things perfectly, it also has the potential to mess them up. Cameras crank out some insane resolutions these days. Imagine multiple splits on a file that starts at 200-300MB before adding any of those layers. I hope you have a lot of ram , and even beyond that, it kills your ability to edit it in a really clean manner. If you do just one split it's a little easier if you can maintain a history state. What if you have several and you're going back to make revisions? I don't use that many layers and I can take care of the things that method claims to solve without any of its backlash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
I am interested about the answer to this question too. Also, would you 2 reply on my question concerning weather these images are good-enough or not even close? Do they appear as something not done by a professional?
I'm bad at answering that . It's hard because I see what they could be rather than what they look like currently. Okay if it was my own portfolio, I wouldn't include the first one. The second is better. The post work and heavy shadows are driving me a bit mad. It's ok to have deep shadows, but you're losing a considerable amount of detail without a lot of transition in some areas.

They could be cool. The chick has an interesting face. it's unusual which I like. The image looks like it should be about beauty. It should be about the face and the hair and the makeup and stuff. the face looks a bit odd in color with weird extremes (highlight and shadow) and very polished skin in the midtones which makes it go a bit flat there. I may have to demonstrate at some point. I've fallen into the same trap, so I tend to be sympathetic, but you just need to consider what would complete the image. I think in the start it's maybe slightly dark, but the contrast is fine. I can guess what you intended with the lighting, but it's not quite hitting it, so you compensated by trying to give it more contrast. If the lighting was addressed at the start of your retouching/post work, you'd have a much better image with lighter levels of retouching. Retouching in the janitorial sense is a weird thing. The more you add, the more retouched it'll look. If you accomplish as much as possible with as little as possible in terms of removing roughness and blemishes, it will look more natural. Some of your steps instead increased the amount needed to create smoothness in the image, which basically adds a step backward to your workflow.
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  #30  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:57 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: A beauty image. Let me know my mistakes.

Thank you very much for all the help, BUT it's 4 am here and I really need to get some sleep.

So, I get what you're saying, and I'm taking notes. I will not work on these images again, as I have work piling up, which doesn't mean I haven't tried to breathe in all the advices.

I have another series to work on, and it's a tricky one, so I'll se how that goes.
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