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My first post, looking for critique [retouching]

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  #11  
Old 04-25-2012, 05:55 PM
Anthony Wood Anthony Wood is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

Thanks for the instructive posts which I've been following. I like the composition of the photo and the models expression and although I would describe the post production as appearing "overdone" it's good to have the explanation of why it doesn't work so clearly described and shown. This is the first time I've heard the suggestion to take drawing classes as a means of developing retouching skills - although it makes complete sense now you mention it. Was the intention to recommend drawing with Photoshop classes or simply drawing?
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:55 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Wood View Post
Was the intention to recommend drawing with Photoshop classes or simply drawing?
Traditional drawing courses aren't bad. You can apply that stuff in photoshop too. You just have to get used to it. It's a good way to adjust your settings. If the tablet mapping isn't comfortable or you need to adjust your position or the way you hold the pen, it becomes evident a lot faster when you're drawing. It also helps prevent (or fix) bad habits like being really scribbly with your brush strokes. I'm not saying they're identical. It's just that understanding fundamentals of this stuff really goes a long way. Otherwise you just slow your own long term progression.
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:50 AM
nancywilliams nancywilliams is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

Many thanks, You have a different way of writing and i know you write right !!
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:59 AM
goldroks goldroks is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

By the way I've been attending art classes for like 7 years. And I consider myself as a good artist on amateurs level. And not in style of Picasso if that matters :] So let me disagree with you about that. When I analyze my way of working, I'd rather say I don't really plan what I'm going to do, or how. I just start with something and complete it to some point, maby go back to it later. Sometimes just randomly change things until I like it.
I'd also like to ask which is assumed to be а better retouch - making a not so good looking person, let's say, to look good or making an almost perfect - perfect?

Here is one more image I'd like to add to the topic: https://odesk-prod-att.s3.amazonaws....x2d5v4A3nls%3D
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  #15  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:36 AM
Anthony Wood Anthony Wood is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

I found the suggestion to develop drawing skills really useful and it seems like a good way to get to know the tools too. Now that I'm getting more into photoshop there are two objectives that appeal. One is to create a heavily post produced image that works ...I've just been looking at Joel Grimes photos as an example. The other is to enhance a portrait so as the re-touch is barely perceptible.

The new images posted by goldroks look heavily post produced but seem to me to lack any redeeming aesthetic qualities. Although I don't have the know how to break down the reasons why - it just looks plastic and fake. It does seem like there is potential in the original image for some kind of retro 80's look. (I don't mean to indicate that I could do any better btw...just sharing an opinion.)
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  #16  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:51 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

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Originally Posted by goldroks View Post
By the way I've been attending art classes for like 7 years. And I consider myself as a good artist on amateurs level. And not in style of Picasso if that matters :] So let me disagree with you about that. When I analyze my way of working, I'd rather say I don't really plan what I'm going to do, or how. I just start with something and complete it to some point, maby go back to it later. Sometimes just randomly change things until I like it.
Quite a lot of that benefits you whether you realize it or not. You may learn much faster because of it. People who lack this kind of background don't know things like how to adjust the way they hold a tool for drawing compared to writing. I like to have some amount of fluid control from the wrist personally. Then there's just having a practiced/steady hand and a lot of other things that you haven't yet put to use. You might later find a need to draw shadows in comps. You might accent highlights. Not having that kind of background can make it awkward. I've watched people try this where they're just not sure how to approach such a thing. Even drawing hair strands or lashes or just masking. This stuff is easy to mess up. The other thing I think that you gain is some understanding of the shapes of the body, especially in different positions. If you draw it, you're forced to examine it.

The problem you mention here is likely going to be solved by something else I mentioned, reference material. I get what you're saying. You looked at it. You weren't 100% sure where to go. I think you should look at other images that you do like for reference, and I think you should put down the blur tools. Burning and dodging is very common. Before you do this, I'd say to clone or rebuild the parts where the texture itself isn't working. This is mainly stuff like acne. Skin that's simply rough can be toned back a bit to match the other skin. When you do this step, you need to be super critical. These blemishes should look like they just disappeared. If something like cloning just isn't working (like on a larger one) rebuild instead. and shade that little bit to match properly. At that point it becomes mostly lightening and darkening to even things out. The first image you posted would require more of this than the second.

When you're just blurring things out, you're reducing a lot of the depth. Specular highlights represent convex curvature. On that second image you posted you can see where the skull comes close to the skin at two points on the forehead, then it dips inward as you hit cartilage along the upper bridge of the nose. You changed more of this on the first example. On the second one it's just that you went a little crazy with the eye color, and the skin texture is once again gone due to blurring which costs you some shape there.

With photos, paintings, illustrations, etc. they have to keep your eye moving through the image. When it hits a really flat surface, it just gets caught there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldroks View Post
I'd also like to ask which is assumed to be а better retouch - making a not so good looking person, let's say, to look good or making an almost perfect - perfect?
I'd go by which is the more interesting photo. I'd say the latter here, but neither is likely to get you work. I feel like I've seen this second one posted on here before. My point remains that I would start with just trying to make it look natural and good. I outlined part of that above. Some things just don't work together for me. You've got a face that's lacking texture where much of the lighting has been somewhat flattened out, then grey deep armpit shadows. Those are difficult to adjust. You wouldn't want to remove them, but you wouldn't want to leave the current juxtaposition. The hair along the arms also kind of conflicts with the ultra softened look of the facial skin. You darkened the lips which is a taste thing, but I'm not sure the highlight flows well in the second one there. I mean these things don't need much. They just need little tweaks to make elements work with each other, and I don't think fake looking skin looks good. I'm also not sure that the eye color change was a good idea. They started out quite vibrant. While you didn't change them much, they were already so much more saturated than the rest of the photo. At some point it just starts to feel off relative to the rest of the palette.

Okay that was a lot to write, but I'm trying to explain it well, and it's still early here.
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:00 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Wood View Post
One is to create a heavily post produced image that works ...I've just been looking at Joel Grimes photos as an example. The other is to enhance a portrait so as the re-touch is barely perceptible.
I just looked up his site. The look is very very cool. They vary a little in how they're done. If you look at the first few, you can see what I mean. The shapes from muscles and bone are still there, and the post work is very controlled.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Anthony Wood Anthony Wood is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

...and I'm not underestimating his ability to get a performance from his subjects - which is what really sets it off.
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:31 PM
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Cupcake Cupcake is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

The skin in a natural look.

See the skin texture.
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File Type: jpg skin2.jpg (96.8 KB, 51 views)
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  #20  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:12 AM
Anthony Wood Anthony Wood is offline
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Re: My first post, looking for critique [retouchin

That's an excellent result cupcake and very much what I hope to learn to do. It'd be great if you have time to pass on a couple of notes about how you achieved this.
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