My first post, looking for critique [retouching]

[goldroks]

Hello everyone,
My name is Christina and it's my first post here. I'm recently working occasionally as a freelancer - mainly doing photo retouching and editing and some graphic design.
I still have a lot to learn and I hope you could help me with this.
I'm attaching one of my favourites.
[Sorry for the caption, but it was for a portfolio in one website...]
I'm all ears

[goldroks]

And of course - forgot to attach the photo
[I'm still not used to this forum and forgive me for just posting the link, but the size for uploading is just 100Kb ] https://www.odesk.com/att/~~8Cen7zpT...cC9Hr*tml5xw==

[Wolfman]

You might have gone a little too far with the smoothing and your tonal transitions are not smooth on the bridge of the nose and under the nose and the skin texture on the neck is rougher than the face....the upper lip is too dark.... no lip texture visible.

[Mike Needham]

Welcome to the forum. I have marked up the image with a few issues (as I see them), there is also a suspicion of a slight magenta caste being introduced in the finished image.

The skin transitions could be improved a little further too, perhaps using a solar curve adjustment layer (if you don't already) as a guide would help to identify any potential issues.

[goldroks]

Thank you guys.
Wolfman, what do you mean with "no lip texture visible"?
Mike Needham, the magenta effect is there on purpose. Is it bad?

[Mike Needham]

It's a subjective choice not a good or bad one really at the end of the day. For my tastes it may be a little vivid, but...

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by goldroks

Thank you guys.
Wolfman, what do you mean with "no lip texture visible"?
Mike Needham, the magenta effect is there on purpose. Is it bad?

Compared to the bottom lip it's much darker and almost looks like a solid color without any definition of the lip surface.... it's very minor and maybe it isn't even a big issue, but if you opened up the exposure on the top lip ever so slightly it might look more natural or darken the lower lip a little.

[kav]

I've been trying to write a good response, but it keeps turning into a novel.

Your problem here is that you're going at it with a sledgehammer. Some areas are overdone and lacking in texture. Some look rougher than they started. While there are varying tastes and disciplines, it's important to be consistent over the image as a whole. When I see much of this stuff, I see people who haven't improved their fundamental skills like drawing/rendering (making a realistic sketch) within photoshop or understanding their subject. By understanding here, I mean understanding the face/anatomy and how such a photo would be used commercially. You're making basically every beginner mistake I can think of, so you would be best off going back and working on these things now rather than dooming yourself to a very very slow progression.

When I look at the original, I can see past the fact that it's flat and she has acne. I can see it as a face and eyes. I can think of areas that could be a little brighter or darker to lend even more shape to it. The photo isn't anything special, but I can still see these things. When I look at the after version, you've removed or simplified a lot of these shapes and nothing agrees with anything else. It goes rough or it goes too soft and loses texture. The color is all over the place, and some of the muscles and bones have turned into flat planes.

I think you need to better understand your subjects. This trends toward an abstract look. Abstract is really difficult to do well. It's easier to start with realistic and go from there to ensure that the changes appear deliberate when you do make them.

[goldroks]

kav, thanks for the exhaustive comment. I appreciate it. I havent really drawn in Photoshop actually... I guess that the lessons I've been learning from are for amateurs retouching. Can you suggest me some online lessons to learn from? I know there are some in this site, but I'm not really into things yet and I can't really understand how it works... Soo I'll be very grateful if you show me something I could learn from. Especially for the skin retouch. I've been doing it with healing brush tool, patch tool and surface blur mainly. The main problem is that there isn't any texture left. There was this topic about the orange peel texture, but I didn't really find anything helpful... I've downloaded some skin-texture brushes, but they aren't very realystic.

[kav]

Originally Posted by goldroks

kav, thanks for the exhaustive comment. I appreciate it. I havent really drawn in Photoshop actually... I guess that the lessons I've been learning from are for amateurs retouching. Can you suggest me some online lessons to learn from? I know there are some in this site, but I'm not really into things yet and I can't really understand how it works... Soo I'll be very grateful if you show me something I could learn from. Especially for the skin retouch. I've been doing it with healing brush tool, patch tool and surface blur mainly. The main problem is that there isn't any texture left. There was this topic about the orange peel texture, but I didn't really find anything helpful... I've downloaded some skin-texture brushes, but they aren't very realystic.

Unless you're in a good market, I wouldn't get your hopes up here. Anyway what you need isn't really retouching tutorials. Most of the stuff that you want to do is very simple. Blemishes can be rebuilt, cloned, etc. You can use the healing brush, patch tool, whatever. The important thing is that when you do the work, it's seamless. Sometimes this means a little extra shading to ensure that it matches perfectly. With the bigger ones I tend to rebuild them. Beyond that it's a lot of shading things, commonly referred to as burn and dodge, but this is meaningless if you don't understand the subject of the photo.

You don't need skin brushes. You just need texture there to start, then you need to not mess it up. Sometimes a few pores get rebuilt, but that texture is not typically added. They would generally work from what already exists in the image. The thing is not to destroy it, and it's easy to destroy it. You have to be careful. You should check your work often. You should take some drawing courses if they're available. This would help out much more than watching youtube tutorials of someone using a healing brush and never checking their work :p.

Edit: I forgot to mention, you'll still probably hit snags. It's just better to understand some of the stuff I mentioned so you have some direction with this stuff, then ask questions on details when you run into specific problems. Right now you're simply getting ahead of yourself.

[Anthony Wood]

Thanks for the instructive posts which I've been following. I like the composition of the photo and the models expression and although I would describe the post production as appearing "overdone" it's good to have the explanation of why it doesn't work so clearly described and shown. This is the first time I've heard the suggestion to take drawing classes as a means of developing retouching skills - although it makes complete sense now you mention it. Was the intention to recommend drawing with Photoshop classes or simply drawing?

[kav]

Originally Posted by Anthony Wood

Was the intention to recommend drawing with Photoshop classes or simply drawing?

Traditional drawing courses aren't bad. You can apply that stuff in photoshop too. You just have to get used to it. It's a good way to adjust your settings. If the tablet mapping isn't comfortable or you need to adjust your position or the way you hold the pen, it becomes evident a lot faster when you're drawing. It also helps prevent (or fix) bad habits like being really scribbly with your brush strokes. I'm not saying they're identical. It's just that understanding fundamentals of this stuff really goes a long way. Otherwise you just slow your own long term progression.

[nancywilliams]

Many thanks, You have a different way of writing and i know you write right !!

[goldroks]

By the way I've been attending art classes for like 7 years. And I consider myself as a good artist on amateurs level. And not in style of Picasso if that matters :] So let me disagree with you about that. When I analyze my way of working, I'd rather say I don't really plan what I'm going to do, or how. I just start with something and complete it to some point, maby go back to it later. Sometimes just randomly change things until I like it.
I'd also like to ask which is assumed to be а better retouch - making a not so good looking person, let's say, to look good or making an almost perfect - perfect?

Here is one more image I'd like to add to the topic: https://odesk-prod-att.s3.amazonaws....x2d5v4A3nls%3D

[Anthony Wood]

I found the suggestion to develop drawing skills really useful and it seems like a good way to get to know the tools too. Now that I'm getting more into photoshop there are two objectives that appeal. One is to create a heavily post produced image that works ...I've just been looking at Joel Grimes photos as an example. The other is to enhance a portrait so as the re-touch is barely perceptible.

The new images posted by goldroks look heavily post produced but seem to me to lack any redeeming aesthetic qualities. Although I don't have the know how to break down the reasons why - it just looks plastic and fake. It does seem like there is potential in the original image for some kind of retro 80's look. (I don't mean to indicate that I could do any better btw...just sharing an opinion.)