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Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

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  #1  
Old 04-06-2015, 06:34 PM
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mix_ns mix_ns is offline
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Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

Hi forum, this is my first time showing my work. I'm college graduate and would like to have these images critiqued (both positive and negative welcomed).

image:
1) before, after
2) before, after
3) before, after
4) before, after

Thanks in advance, Milan.
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2015, 07:13 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

I'm not sure what to say here. You could use some technical practice, but more than that you would benefit from looking through similar work and studying details of it. Some of the interpretation here is just really poor, especially things like lip colors. They don't resemble actual makeup and in 2 of those cases are significantly worse than the originals. It's actually easy to regress like that, but it highlights the importance of really thinking about the intended changes.
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2015, 08:02 PM
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mix_ns mix_ns is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

Thanks klev.
I did change lip color intentionally, just like I did with background color. Looks like you don't find it nicer at all Foreground warmer tones bring contrast to more cooler background color, which I find pleasing. Would you rather leave original lip color?

How's my d&b technique? I like that all these pictures look solid when viewed black and white, is that something you consider required, even when looking at colored photograph, how to you evaluate d&b?
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2015, 10:12 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

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Originally Posted by mix_ns View Post
Thanks klev.
I did change lip color intentionally, just like I did with background color. Looks like you don't find it nicer at all Foreground warmer tones bring contrast to more cooler background color, which I find pleasing. Would you rather leave original lip color?
I was referring to this one specifically. It's not an issue of warmer tones. I mean if you wanted warmer tones, I would suggest a warmer more tan look to the skin, although I'm not this shot has enough definition to pull it off. With the other I was referring to the really dark deep lip color and still glossy but now saturated reflections. Unless you're talking about something metal, really glossy areas will reflect a color much closer to that of the light source.


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Originally Posted by mix_ns View Post
How's my d&b technique?
It should be more subtle, but I think that could be improved with practice. You have shadows that come to an almost immediate halt and show signs in some areas that things like faces are still a little new to you. The stuff that makes me cringe are things like the lip color (has nothing to do with being warm), the part where you erased all definition in her deltoids and lats, masking mistakes on the background, partly removed hair strands where it's obvious that you cloned it out, eye reflections that don't really match the rest of the lighting, over-saturated lip highlights, random hot spots, really deep shadows juxtaposing overly greyish shadows, etc. A lot of comes down to judgement, but you really need to avoid things like removing all muscle definition.

In general you'll find that most people can see stuff like the masking mistakes. Not as many will tell you about falloff of shadows and facial structure. It's common for people to feel like something is off, yet not be able to place it. Early on you may find that this makes it difficult to get back good feedback.

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Originally Posted by mix_ns View Post
I like that all these pictures look solid when viewed black and white, is that something you consider required, even when looking at colored photograph, how to you evaluate d&b?
I know why people do that. It's to look for real definition and detail rather than just pretty color juxtapositions. I don't bother doing that unless I want to check something specific.
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  #5  
Old 04-07-2015, 05:06 PM
Caravaggio Caravaggio is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

I'm not a beauty retoucher but have studied human anatomy and the distortions in her back and neck area in after number 3 look strange and unnatural to me. In general the neck and back area have lost the feeling of there being any anatomy there and are very flat. She is kind of missing a 7th cervical vertebrae. The trapezius muscles in the back of her neck should not be parallel to the front of the neck and you've lost the feeling that their function is to hold up and support the head. There is a kind of softness in the front of women's necks (from the thyroid gland) that you have lost from both the hardness of the contour line and from there being no swelling where the thyroid gland should be. I understand that you are trying to simplify those areas to have a beautiful contour but there should still be a feeling of the anatomy that is underneath.
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  #6  
Old 04-07-2015, 10:50 PM
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mix_ns mix_ns is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
It's not an issue of warmer tones. I mean if you wanted warmer tones, I would suggest a warmer more tan look to the skin, although I'm not this shot has enough definition to pull it off.
Warmer tan looks more logical I must admit.
By "shot definition" you mean balance of light/dark? I shot this, that's why I ask It was all shot at native ISO, fast shutter speed, and sharp lens (Canon 85mm f1.8).

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
With the other I was referring to the really dark deep lip color and still glossy but now saturated reflections. Unless you're talking about something metal, really glossy areas will reflect a color much closer to that of the light source.
Oh, I get your point now, altho at first I didn't. Thanks for all tips. I have to practice more!
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  #7  
Old 04-07-2015, 10:55 PM
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mix_ns mix_ns is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

@Caravaggio
Sure you make some good points, thanks.
Strange thing is her sternocleidomastoid muscle seems nonexistent even in original, unedited file. Do you think I should have 'added' it, with dodge and burn for example?
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:40 AM
klev klev is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

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Originally Posted by mix_ns View Post
Warmer tan looks more logical I must admit.
By "shot definition" you mean balance of light/dark? I shot this, that's why I ask It was all shot at native ISO, fast shutter speed, and sharp lens (Canon 85mm f1.8).
I was thinking more in terms of lighting. If you look at a photo of a really tan person, muscle definition tends to be more prominent. It's the reason bodybuilders often fake-bake. I don't think just adding deeper tones is going to look as you imagine without the right definition, and trying to add that can be quite difficult. It's not impossible, but it's very difficult.

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Originally Posted by mix_ns View Post
Oh, I get your point now, altho at first I didn't. Thanks for all tips. I have to practice more!
No problem. I hope I'm a positive influence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mix_ns View Post
@Caravaggio
Sure you make some good points, thanks.
Strange thing is her sternocleidomastoid muscle seems nonexistent even in original, unedited file. Do you think I should have 'added' it, with dodge and burn for example?
I would avoid that for now. It's impossible to add a tiny bit of muscle definition when it's there but too subtle. It's one of the more difficult tasks. I suggest a little more practice first, as well as a careful study of anatomy. I see a bit of heavy handedness in all of them, but did you examine 7907? You can see her rear deltoid, a bit of her lats, and some of the muscles close to the spine in the original. The retouched version looks very flat in that region, because all muscle definition is basically removed.

I would be careful about making the neck so straight in 7923 as well. Consider that it looks odd in the final right now. It would be tough to make that look attractive, but I think that's more of an initial shot consideration. If it's what you have and you really need to make it work, try to be a bit more subtle. In the final version, it just looks very wide. On that same shot I would be very careful with the way you accentuate that cheekbone area. The way it's done makes her face appear somewhat elongated. Sometimes you see some crazy cheek makeup, and I think I see why you wanted to do that here. I just don't think it worked well with her face. I don't really want to go into a full list with that shot, but there are many reasons that I think you should cut it from your selection. I don't think an editor would pick that one either. It has too many things that distract you. These shots also tend to focus on lips, eyes, and hair. The eyes are decent here, but the other two primary elements aren't in a good place.
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  #9  
Old 04-08-2015, 02:22 PM
Caravaggio Caravaggio is offline
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Re: Beauty image, critiques welcomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mix_ns View Post
@Caravaggio
Sure you make some good points, thanks.
Strange thing is her sternocleidomastoid muscle seems nonexistent even in original, unedited file. Do you think I should have 'added' it, with dodge and burn for example?
I can see the sternocleidomastoid muscle in the original. It kind of follows the highlight. It looks normal to me for a woman posed in that position so I would just try to retain what is there in the retouch.

I agree with kiev that that one is a hard image to make look good as a beauty image because of the strained position of her back and neck in the original.
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