Computer: Seeking advice on buying a new mac pro

[Caravaggio]

Hello, I am trying to design a mac pro to replace my ailing PowerPC G5. I want to use this machine for high-end retouching. I may in the future try to learn some 3d modeling programs like zbrush so would like the computer to maybe be capable of handling 3d modeling. I don't play any computer games.

This is what I preliminarily choose. What do all the professional retouchers think of this machine? Is it overkill? Should I make any changes. I want it to run like a Ferrari. I will partition the hard drive so photoshop has its own scratch disk.

Mac Pro
Part Number: Z0EM
Two 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8-core)
16GB (4 x 4GB)
750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB (Two dual-link DVI)
One 16x SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme card (Wi-Fi)
Apple Mighty Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) + User's Guide
Accessory kit
Apple 30 inch cinema display
Protection Plan

Thanks a lot for your help and advice.

[mfischer]

I, personally, think its overkill.
I would go with two 2.8 CPUs and 8GB RAM.

Dont buy RAM or Harddisks from Apple. Compare some prices.

Partitioning a single drive for a dedicated scratchdisk is plain useless.
Buy dedicated harddrives.
Mine is filled with four disks, one for the system, one for data, one as scratchdisk, the last for backup.

[retouchn00b]

Personally, I'd recommend setting up four hard disks in a RAID 5 configuration. This will give you maximum speed with an automatic backup (if a drive fails, you can get back your data, but if you delete something important, you're still in trouble).

RAM from Apple for the Mac Pros is specialized; while normally I'd recommend not buying from Apple, in this case it's a good thing.

Hard drives are a different story. You can get 1 TB drives for as low as CAD125 if you find them on sale.

Partitioning the hard disk will do nothing. It'll probably actually make the computer slower, in fact.

I'm no expert on displays, particularly for retouching, but the Apple Cinema line hasn't been updated in at least 4 or 5 years, and I would never buy one. They're really quite expensive for what you get. That being said, I have no colour matching requirements.
The Mighty Mouse is a load of crap. I can't imagine it'd be useful for retouching; get the standard mouse and buy a decent mouse from someone else. MS makes better mice, honestly.

Get the cheapest video card unless you're planning on using it for 3d rendering, some HD movie editing, gaming, or you're going to get CS4 or better during the life of the machine.

[Markzebra]

"RAM from Apple for the Mac Pros is specialized;" - thats not really true. Kingston do good and reliable RAM of exactly the same spec, Apple RAM is marked up and overpriced, most experts say this http://www.macwarehouse.co.uk/catalogue/item/kinme011

I have a recent mac of pretty well the same spec as you are looking (not two 4 cores but two duals) - and my setup works great, best I've ever seen, well in excess of what CS3 can use it for! In my experience also having more than about 5 or 6 GIGS is pointless, Photoshop just never accesses it. On mac, before CS5 comes out it probably wont be able to either . I have 7 Gigs. There are people who claim incorrectly that it can access as much as you have, but they are self deceived, you can check Activity Monitor to confirm this.

I agree that the Mighty Mouse is a weird and not very good design, I hate them, better get a cheap PC mouse.

Biggest thing to remember you don't have to buy it all now your new mac is highly customizable, just flip it open and add what you want or need, when you need.

[Caravaggio]

I also hate the mighty mouse, but they come by default with the macpro whether you want it or not.

As for the Cinema Display monitors, they may no longer be state of the art and require 3rd party calibration equipment, but I like that they are not quite as expensive as the NEC monitor I just returned, are not super bright so it won't tire my eyes and will take up less deskspace than some of the higher end monitors. I probably need a good video card as I want this computer to last through CS5! I also would like to learn how to do 3d modeling which I am guessing requires a good video card.

I am looking into setting up a RAID network of several dedicated harddrives. I need to do some research on this as I know nothing about RAID. Can I use my old power PC G5 in this nework as one of the harddrives? It is from 2004 and is not wifi.

What is the difference between a dedicated harddrive and an external one?

[retouchn00b]

An external hard drive is slower; runs through USB or firewire.

RAID isn't something that networks. Basically, you've got more than one hard drive (the actual number depends on a variety of things) and they appear as one hard drive to the computer. You need to get the Mac Pro RAID card if you want to do this. RAID has multiple levels, and each has certain disadvantages and benefits. RAID 5 is generally thought to be the best general purpose RAID level. I have set up a windows PC to use RAID, but haven't done it on a Mac Pro. It was pretty simple on the PC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

[Caravaggio]

Markzebra, What exactly is the activity monitor?

[retouchn00b]

Originally Posted by Caravaggio

Markzebra, What exactly is the activity monitor?

Go to /Applications/Utilities. Activity Monitor is in that folder.

Activity Monitor is roughly what Ctrl-alt-del pulls up in Windows XP/Vista

[Markzebra]

Nope its not Task Manager - its a system utility for providing feedback of what your mac is doing on the fly, this includes disk activity, Memory(RAM) usage, even CPU usage while everything else is running - threads of activity are displayed as well as summaries. This is for problem solving if you ever need it, which you probably never will. There are other utilities for disk permissions and clean ups

[retouchn00b]

So…basically what Vista's task manager does, with the odd added feature.

[mfischer]

Originally Posted by Caravaggio

As for the Cinema Display monitors, they may no longer be state of the art and require 3rd party calibration equipment, but I like that they are not quite as expensive as the NEC monitor I just returned, are not super bright so it won't tire my eyes and will take up less deskspace than some of the higher end monitors.

I consider the display as the core component of any system that is used for professional retouching.

I would(and have done so) buy a high end monitor that supports hardware calibration(NEC, EIZO, LaCie, Quato) and a decent measuring device(xrite).

Go with the mouse that comes with the mac as you are doing professional retouching and already own a Wacom tablet.

[Swampy]

I get my RAM from Other World Computing. Great prices, great tech support. I bought a wireless keyboard and hated it. I could never boot with an option or zap PRAM because bluetooth had not loaded in time and the keyboard wasn't recognized. I agree on the mighty mouse too, it's a piece of crap. BTW.. the new aluminum keyboards are kind of nice, but the USB ports on either side are under powered even on the wired version.

Ports...ports...ports... I need more ports! I can never have enough! Scanner, printer(s), Wacom, card reader, Camcorder input, modem (I use it for faxing), iPhone and iPod cradle, iSight camera. flash drive, Bluetooth dongle, external FW drive (portable). I hate hubs so I got two Sonnet Technonogies PCI Extreme cards (one card has 2FW, 3USB) for a total of 4 extra FW ports and 6 extra USB ports. No more daisy chaining either.

[Caravaggio]

Thanks Swampy for the info on the wireless keyboard. Was your wireless keyboard from Apple?

I take it, MFisher that you can't hardware calibrate on an apple cinema display?

[Swampy]

...Was your wireless keyboard from Apple?

Yes. Like I say, I now have the wired version of the Aluminum and I really like it. Took a day or two to get used to the keyboard action, but it is so much easier to keep clean.

[Caravaggio]

The Aluminum is made by Apple?

[mfischer]

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

?

[Caravaggio]

Thanks Fisher.

[Swampy]

The function keys act differently, but you can turn off the "new" functions in your Keyboard prefs.

[Caravaggio]

I am a little dumb. Can someone please explain to me how to install dedicated harddrives? I have never seen one so want to be sure I am capable of doing this before I decide to go this route.

Also who is a good vendor for dedicated harddrives?

As the macpro is a dual processor, does this mean that I only need to purchase 2 dedicated harddrives?

MFisher, "Mine is filled with four disks, one for the system, one for data, one as scratchdisk, the last for backup." Did you install an equal amount of memory in each disk?

I think you said your system was 8GB so that would be 2 GB in each one if you allocated memory equally.

Thanks.

[Swampy]

Caravaggio...

Installing a hard drive into the MacPro is about the easiest of any other computer model I've ever owned. The MacPro has four trays. One per hard drive. The first tray will have the hard drive that ships with the computer the other three empty. Just slide a tray out, screw the new drive to the rails and re-insert the tray. Your manual should have the full directions and if you buy from Other Wolrd Computing they probably have an online QuickTime video showing you how to do it too.

The dual processor has nothing to do with the hard drives. It just means there are two processors on the motherboard. Ram has nothing to do with hard drives either. :-)

You can add up to 3 hard drives of any or mixed sized. I've got two 250GB internal drives and one 750GB external drive hooked up to my MacPro.

[Markzebra]

You are not understanding how it all works Caravaggio - "As the macpro is a dual processor, does this mean that I only need to purchase 2 dedicated harddrives?" - I think you need to do some pretty basic homework, Ill try my best to explain as you are about to spend a lot of your money…

• The Intel Processors (these are duals or 4core now). In my experience these make the LEAST difference to operational speed, regardless of what the store will tell you. It was possible even when processors ran at 1.33 Ghz or less to have an extremely fast system if you filled it with enough RAM…

• The most important addition as far as speed goes, the Processors use RAM directly, this is temporary storage area, very fast access memory. You can have as much of this as you need, as I said earlier much more than 6Gigs is pointless as it stands at the moment. In the unusual case of Photoshop where it is swapping huge amounts of pixel data very quickly in and out of this RAM, its important, only if you are working on high res imagery, to have as much as Photoshop can use at the moment. This requirement at the moment about 5 gigs I reckon, may increase a little when PS moves to 64 bit on the mac, I'm not sure.

• Hard Drives are relatively slow access memory (250 Gigs or so) this is where your files and data are stored. You can get away with ONE hard drive, I did for years. Apple hard drives are very reliable - best to have about three, one for your filling system Thats the apple one, one 3rd party backup of that filing system, and a third MAYBE for what is called a SCRATCH disk - this scratch disk photoshop will only use when it runs out of Available RAM. Back when I started it was pretty essential to have a scratch disk, but you can get away without one quite easily these days, I don't have one on my mac pro and the difference is minimal.

And having seen people do what you are doing many times before, I'll give you this advice… spending a fortune on a nice machine doesn't buy you clients, get the clients FIRST.

[brianr66]

Well I have the earlier quad core pro, 5 gig of RAM with a 30 inch cinema screen, an Intuous 3... oh and a neglected wife lol! I'm very happy with my whole set up and the 30inch screen is a godsend, I can work 10 - 12 hours in front of this thing and still not get sore eyes, so the investment is well worth it imo.