RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Tools > Hardware
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Hardware Computers, displays, tablets, scanners, cameras, printers, etc.

my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to CMYK

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:48 PM
TommyO's Avatar
TommyO TommyO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 1,211
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Nadaman,
Not that this explains the CS4/CS3 difference, but after a bit of searching (actually a lot), the nVIDIA 8800GS for the iMac does not support dual monitor calibrations; it only contains one LUT for that purpose. The solution would be to add a second graphic card (which the iMac does not support), or determine which monitor will be the "calibrated monitor" and use the other for general purposes.

There are similar threads discussing this issue throughout the Apple support community... here is one of the many - (Apple Forum). Finding the specifications for the 8800GS from nVIDIA is a bit more difficult, as the 8800GS for the iMac is actually a slightly redesigned GeForce 8800M GTS. Hence, the spec's get a little intertwined.

The bottom line, even after resolving why the difference in CS4 vs CS3, there will still be an issue you need to resolve. I suspect that CS3 is behaving better with the graphics card. Maybe CS4 will also after nVIDIA releases another driver update, assuming they do so for an 18 month old platform.

The only item I haven't had time to look at is whether the LaCie contains a built-in GPU & LUT. I don't think so, but if it does, this poses another issue. Color values will be converted twice, once based upon the calibration and LUT in the 8800GS, and again as they pass through the GPU in the LaCie. Based upon the price point of the 324, I don't think it would contain a GPU of its own. So, this could be a null point. But, worth inquiring about with your contact at LaCie. If it does, you'll need to have a "null" LUT in the 8800GS card; I think there is a Mac utility to do this.
Reply With Quote top
  #32  
Old 08-13-2009, 05:23 AM
nadaman nadaman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Tommyo thanks for your time, much appreciated.

Quote:
or determine which monitor will be the "calibrated monitor" and use the other for general purposes.
I would like my Lacie to be the primary calibrated screen.

I did pass on your question to Lacie yesterday and am waiting for an answer.
I have to admit that I'm in over my head on all this stuff.
I have looked at your Apple link briefly, but I've got a busy few days ahead with no time to research it.
And I have to prepare a photo for magazine repro today.
Based on previous posts regarding color performance of my screens, would it be safe to prepare my file using CS4, trusting my 324's manually activated custom profile and then switch to CS3 to do the CMYK conversion?
The difference between my Apple display and 324 with CS3 (in either RGB or CMYK, it is consistent) is that the Lacie is ever so slightly redder in the flesh tone - hardly worth mentioning. This would keep me working with some degree of confidence in what I'm handing over to the printer.

Going back to your link, I have AppleCare. Is this fix something that Apple can walk me through over the phone or at least is Apple the place to start? Again, I only read your link briefly.
If you have any other links regarding this issue, please pass them along.
I'll probably have time next week to tackle this and will be posting results here.
Please check back if you have the time.
Again to you and Markzebra, thanks for all your help.
Reply With Quote top
  #33  
Old 08-13-2009, 09:18 AM
Markzebra's Avatar
Markzebra Markzebra is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 718
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Well done TommyO, looks like he's got your answer there.

Something basic has just occurred to me - if its graphics card related, try switching off Open GL - Preferences/performance/Open GL. Under Advanced in here there is also a checkbox for Gamma Correction , if you want to leave Open GL on, try playing with these settings also. Restart Photoshop is needed for these changes to take effect.
Reply With Quote top
  #34  
Old 08-13-2009, 08:03 PM
TommyO's Avatar
TommyO TommyO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 1,211
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Quote:
Originally Posted by nadaman View Post
Based on previous posts regarding color performance of my screens, would it be safe to prepare my file using CS4, trusting my 324's manually activated custom profile and then switch to CS3 to do the CMYK conversion?
Yes. And, agreeing with Mark, the conversion in CS4 should be fine as well. No need to swap to CS3 to do that. It's simply the viewing of the file in CS4 on that graphic card that "appears" to the eye to be different. Hence, you may want to use CS3 to view the final version and ensure it is to your satisfaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nadaman View Post
Is this fix something that Apple can walk me through over the phone or at least is Apple the place to start? Again, I only read your link briefly.
Maybe. If Apple is aware of an updated driver for the graphic card which addresses the problem, they can. Otherwise, your option is to replace the graphic card with a different model, which they may or may not warranty under AppleCare.

The more I thought about it, the less chance I think there is that your LaCie 324 has an internal GPU. If it did, I think they would certainly advertise it that way; when manufacturers say nothing about it, it implies they do not. Hence, you should not have to worry about nulling out the LUT. However, I would ask Apple how to best ensure the profile for the LaCie is always loaded properly, and not overridden by the internal monitor profile. This will depend on their experience with the nVIDIA 8800GS card.
Reply With Quote top
  #35  
Old 08-13-2009, 08:24 PM
Markzebra's Avatar
Markzebra Markzebra is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 718
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Quote:
would it be safe to prepare my file using CS4, trusting my 324's manually activated custom profile and then switch to CS3 to do the CMYK conversion?
As I said many times in this thread CS3 and CS4 are not doing your conversion differently. What happens behind the scenes in Photoshop is not related to what your montor is displaying. If you dont believe this CHECK both conversions. Using the eyedropper

With Open GL Off I'm pretty sure Photoshop CS4 will display colors in the same way as CS3.
Reply With Quote top
  #36  
Old 08-14-2009, 06:33 AM
nadaman nadaman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

TommyO & Markzebra,
had moment to look at Apple link from TommyO's post. In it "Kees5" is talking about his ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro graphic card. His iMac appears to be a 2007 model.

My NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS appears , to me anyways, to support 2 LUTs.
Please see attachment.

Go to Display Preferences and these windows appear. One in Lacie display &
the other in the Apple display. As seen in jpg, you can check "show profiles for this display only"
box and it does do it.
Did Apple then fix this issue with card change? I don't mean to question your research as
I have not spoken with Apple yet.
I used my Blue Eye software (with measuring device) on the Apple display to create the profile seen and adjusted the monitor brightness to match the 324.
I duplicate a file, open both & place one on each display for comparison using CS3 & both files RGB. The images appear to be similar in density/brightness with the Apple display showing a slightly redder flesh tone which is no big deal.
Do not confuse this with 324/CS4 RGB to CMYK red cast issue which is a big deal.
The reason for 2 profiles - one for each display - I can't remember.
If I try to use Lacie's profile on iMac now, Apple display goes way to bright.
I would have to play around to see if one profile is possible for both displays.
Again I have not talked to Apple yet to confirm LUT issue.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg LUT.jpg (89.8 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by nadaman; 08-14-2009 at 06:59 AM. Reason: add words
Reply With Quote top
  #37  
Old 08-14-2009, 07:25 AM
Markzebra's Avatar
Markzebra Markzebra is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 718
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Quote:
I used my Blue Eye software (with measuring device) on the Apple display to create the profile seen and adjusted the monitor brightness to match the 324.
No you should create the profile AFTER you change brightess. Monitor Profiles record gamma, any change to monitor settings after you created the profile will invalidate it.

Did you try Open GL?
Reply With Quote top
  #38  
Old 08-14-2009, 09:13 AM
nadaman nadaman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

point taken Mark but with the intent of 324 being my primary screen and iMac display for palettes,
I didn't think it a big deal at the time.
Going out of town today back on sunday. I'm going to call Apple then.
I'm also going to set up my old work station - IBM Powerbook w/ Lacie 19"blue CRT.
Have CS2 on that machine and am interested how the flesh tone color looks on that.
At this point I need to confirm 324 and iMac display are showing what the numbers say they should be showing. The portrait in this thread has a magenta/yellow spread of only a couple points max (some places even) in lighter areas of woman's face with a less than 10 point spread in the shadow below the nose. That flesh tone should show closer to red than yellow or closer to a baby's flesh colour rather than a tanned adult. hopefully seeing all three side by side may clear things up a little.
I have located OpenGL in CS4 preferences - performance, I will try it out sunday and let you know.
thanks, talk soon.
Reply With Quote top
  #39  
Old 08-15-2009, 09:59 AM
TommyO's Avatar
TommyO TommyO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 1,211
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Quote:
Originally Posted by nadaman View Post
In it "Kees5" is talking about his ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro graphic card. His iMac appears to be a 2007 model.
While his was older, he refers to upgrading. Then others then refer to issues with the 8800GS. If you put "8800GS" in their search engine, you get a dozen or more threads with issues on the 8800GS - everything from calibration issues to OpenGL issues.

So, you may consider focusing on the card as the root of the problem. If it was CS4 or the iMac platform, I believe you would see a lot more traffic on the issue.

Again, your resolution will be to either find a driver update, or replace the card with another model.

Best of luck !
Reply With Quote top
  #40  
Old 08-19-2009, 04:25 PM
nadaman nadaman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Re: my 1st post..red cast on Lacie 324/CS4 RGB to

Quick note FYI (I'm still busy):
1. Waiting on reply from NVDIA from email I sent. I have been passed on to level 2 support.
2. Confirmed with Apple that my iMac does support dual monitors - mirrored and extended desktop. If I want to replace the graphic card, I must buy a new mother board as well. They are attached in iMac.
Cost could be 2/3's price of new computer between the two.
3. Adobe called to say my case has been elevated to level 2 support. They could not tell me when level 2 would call with update.
4. LaCie looked at my calibration reports and confirmed they were good.

My short term work around is to work file in RGB using CS4, switch to CS3 for CMYK conversion.
I will post as I hear back from above.
Thanks for your patience.
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Tools > Hardware


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skin Tone color corrections, CYMK or RGB? jayk2 Photo Retouching 42 09-25-2010 02:04 PM
rgb vs cmyk kl4 Photoshop Help 18 09-01-2008 04:05 PM
RGB to CMYK problem saby Photo Retouching 7 10-15-2006 08:07 AM
good old rgb cmyk prob mac Image Help 3 02-17-2005 10:37 PM
ICC embedded Reimar Hidden Power Support 14 05-07-2004 04:18 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved