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Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

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  #41  
Old 10-16-2010, 10:53 AM
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

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Originally Posted by 20pictures View Post
I would be interested in Andrew explaining the alleged comment that the % adobeRGB figures are not important.
Its not, not important, its not critical and the spec can be misleading.

To clarify what this means, since there is a lot of confusion about this in the industry (intentional or not) the de facto standard when throwing around display gamut sizes is currently to quote the gamut area, calculated in CIE xy, relative to a reference gamut and expressed as a percentage. If the reference color gamut is unspecified, it is generally assumed to be NTSC (1953) - (which is pretty useless since it's not in use and makes things more confusing, especially for those doing video work).

Another confusing point about this figure is that it does not say what portion of the 2 gamuts overlap, so it would be possible to have a very large % gamut area, but only have a smaller portion of it actually covering the reference gamut. NEC quotes 2 sets of figures: "Percent Area" and "Percent Coverage".

The "Percent Area" is simply the area in CIE xy of the display gamut vs the reference gamut, with no consideration of how much of the gamuts actually overlap. This value can be > 100%.

The "Percent Coverage" is the overlapping area of the 2 gamuts expressed as a percent of the total area of the reference gamut. The maximum possible value for this is 100%.

NEC generally quote these values for AdobeRGB and sRGB, so it is easier to determine which color gamut best suits a particular application.
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  #42  
Old 10-16-2010, 11:22 AM
20pictures 20pictures is offline
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

Thanks for that Andrew.

Would you be able to explain the significance of the LUT. I tried searching for information but found little specific to this case. I had assumed that if the monitor has RGB controls then that assists with hardware calibration & the icc.profile (software calibration) being the icing on the cake!?

Based on advice received, I do favour the NEC albeit a smaller screen & sPVA.
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  #43  
Old 10-16-2010, 11:25 AM
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

LUT is simply a lookup table. A lot depends on if the “corrections” within a display happen using a simple matrix alteration on the graphic card, in 8-bit per color or using a look up table in more than 8-bits to eliminate banding on-screen. Much like the differences in editing 8-bits per color vs. 16-bits and the possible and unfortunate experience where banding occurs.
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  #44  
Old 10-17-2010, 03:17 AM
20pictures 20pictures is offline
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

What is the difference between a 10-bit look-up table & a 10-bit gamma correction? It seems to me that they are doing the same job, producing smooth colour gradations throughout an image. Some monitors are advertised as having both.
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  #45  
Old 10-17-2010, 12:07 PM
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

Technically gamma is a very fixed curve, based on the gamma formula. So I’m not sure what is being defined here or if its just marketing speak. Displays have a native Tone Response Curve (TRC) specified by a gamma value, which is a result of their natural behavior. Gamma is a specific formula (output = input gamma ) that describes a very simple curve. This curve, the result of this gamma formula, in the case of a display, describes input amplitude (voltage) and the corresponding light output (brightness). Various values for gamma produce different curves. So we can use a single number to describe this type of curve. However, many devices do not follow this formula, their curves are far more complex and are not gamma curves nor should we use gamma to describe them (tone response curve is the accurate term).

The natural TRC of an LCD is a severe S curve and doesn’t even remotely follow the gamma formula. LCD manufacturers want to have their displays act like CRTs. End users who don’t use color management expect the colors to be at least “in the ball park” of what they are used to seeing on CRTs. To achieve this, the LCD has a built-in 8-bit LUT (Look-Up Table), which makes the LCD follow the gamma formula, usually gamma 2.2. By converting 8-bit input data into 8-bit output data, the result is banding (aliasing) in images.
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  #46  
Old 10-18-2010, 04:16 AM
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

Hello Andrew,

You suggesged me PA Series of NEC displays, I tried to find a dealer here in India and when I asked for pricing about PA series I'm surprised because its too high price (just double). I asked to my dealer for the reason about it and he says that the custom duty and freight are making its pricing too high.

P221 W - USD 1000 (Approx.)
PA241W - USD 2000 (Approx.)
PA271W - USD 2300 (Approx.)

P221 W has less pricing than PA series, so I want to pruchase it, but Still I don't want any compromise in quality of display if professionals are connected with me (where accuracy is important), so can you please tell me should I invest in PA series.

I seen on site there is PA231W, it should be less than USD 2000, is it good monitor ?

xrtie i1 display 2 will be best choice to calibrate it ?

thank you in advance. you are my GURU for color managment in my workflow.

Ash

Last edited by ashphotoart; 10-18-2010 at 06:11 AM.
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  #47  
Old 10-18-2010, 07:56 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
That device has a much wider gamut than the iMac display but the bigger issue is, its not that great a display and they are usually way too bright and Apple doesn’t make it easy (in some cases impossible) to target the luminance to match a print using a decent viewing booth/condition.
I've never had that much luck with any of apple's displays as far as brightness levels are concerned. The one that seemed to come closest to me without taking actual measurement data was the 30" as it seemed to maintain smoother contrast at lower brightness settings. I never owned one. This is what I saw on units owned by other people.

The NEC's have a lot of popularity here I see. I think their newer ones are a bit bright, and in my experience they do shift a bit more quickly than I'd like. I had a difficult time attempting to keep one consistent over time. Some suggestions for this would be to set a sensible brightness in the beginning (below 120 cd/m2) so as to extend how long the backlight can hit that target. Trying to calibrate too close to the maximum brightness level the backlight can achieve at that time seems to increase the grey tracking deviation toward the highlights. Most people who buy these already own a display. If you wish to keep it as accurate as possible as long as possible, using an older display set up alongside your calibrated one for things like email and mundane computer work will allow you to keep the expensive one turned off when not needed for photoshop. This will help extend the usable life of the display. Colorcomp may make it look a bit flat at first glance, but when they're newer the contrast ratio exceeds printed contrast so it shouldn't be an issue.

Just some thoughts from working with them..
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  #48  
Old 10-18-2010, 08:06 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashphotoart View Post
Hello Andrew,

You suggesged me PA Series of NEC displays, I tried to find a dealer here in India and when I asked for pricing about PA series I'm surprised because its too high price (just double). I asked to my dealer for the reason about it and he says that the custom duty and freight are making its pricing too high.

P221 W - USD 1000 (Approx.)
PA241W - USD 2000 (Approx.)
PA271W - USD 2300 (Approx.)

P221 W has less pricing than PA series, so I want to pruchase it, but Still I don't want any compromise in quality of display if professionals are connected with me (where accuracy is important), so can you please tell me should I invest in PA series.

I seen on site there is PA231W, it should be less than USD 2000, is it good monitor ?

xrtie i1 display 2 will be best choice to calibrate it ?

thank you in advance. you are my GURU for color managment in my workflow.

Ash
If NEC's are really expensive there, you might look up what eizo and possibly quato run in comparison. If it's close one of those two brands might be worth considering as well. P221W is a pva panel. PVA has improved a ton over the last few years, but I've still read about gamma shift. I've seen another model that uses that same panel but not in low light. It looked fine. No idea what the aging characteristics are like on PVA though. I've never used one. Below is my source for the panel info.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
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  #49  
Old 10-18-2010, 08:31 AM
20pictures 20pictures is offline
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

I have just purchased the NEC MultiSync P221W (thanks for all the advice) & now seem to have an issue with the calibration software.

Recently, I purchased the EyeOne Display2 and, as budget is an issue here, do not have the luxury of replacing it.

The supplier of the monitor is quoted, '...the official line from NEC is that the software [SpectraViewII] cannot be purchased through the NEC Europe channel, and that if you buy the software from the US there is no guarantee it will be compatible with your set up. Further to that, there is no support available for the software in the UK if you do not have a Spectraview monitor.'

Before I try & purchase SpectraViewII software, can anyone confirm it works with the NEC MultiSync P221W & EyeOne Display2?
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  #50  
Old 10-18-2010, 09:18 AM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

The NEC PA231 is in the SpectraView II line**.
SpectraView software is mostly US based, in Europe, they bundle basICColor which provides about the same functionality. Both SpectraView II and basICColor support the EyeOne Display-2 hardware.

**http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/P...b-e4d4d3a9910f
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