Monitors: Which Monitor for Photo Editing 2010

[RSelby]

I've looked a several monitors from 600.00-1200.00.

Here's what I've come up with:
NEC 2690WU2-BK-SV about 1200.00 shipping included H-IPS
NEC 2490 about 1100.00 shipping included H-IPS
HP LP2475w about 570.0 shipping included H-IPS
Dell 2408 about 472.00 shipping included S-PVA
Samsung 245T 694.00 shipping included S-PVA

H-IPS is supposed to be better for photo editing than S-PVA however some of the finest monitors (Eizo) use S-PVA. I'm not even considering TN panels.

Any ideas or suggestions? I appreciate your help.

Regards,

Richard

[Pictus]

Check:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=39226
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/reviews.php

[Kraellin]

the best monitor i've seen anywhere, ever, is this one from Apple. yup, apple. it's unbelievably clear, crisp, vibrant, and all those other superlatives. AND, when you move it up and down or side to side, none of that disappearing image you get with lcd screens. this is a true LED screen and quite frankly, i havent seen anything to beat it yet. the other boys definitely have some catching up to do.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB...co=MTA4MzU1MzE

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

the best monitor i've seen anywhere, ever, is this one from Apple. yup, apple. it's unbelievably clear, crisp, vibrant, and all those other superlatives. AND, when you move it up and down or side to side, none of that disappearing image you get with lcd screens. this is a true LED screen and quite frankly, i havent seen anything to beat it yet. the other boys definitely have some catching up to do.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB...co=MTA4MzU1MzE

Hi Kraellin,

I have heard that the led one doesn't have a very wide gammut like the LCD one from apple too. I had compared both monitors connected to the same macpro and could see that the Led one has a variation in colors, not in density. Any comment about this? I'm thinking about buying a led, but don't know.

Mart

[Tareq]

I have Apple Cinema Display 30" and i am very happy with it, i hear many places that it is not the best, and there are many better monitor over that Apple one, so i bought also Eizo ColorEdge CG222W and it is also a great monitor, i dunno why but i love that Apple over the Eizo due to the monitor size not the quality, because both are doing a great job for photo editing, and still i don't have that kind of work where i want the maximum accurate workflow.

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by Tareq

both are doing a great job for photo editing, and still i don't have that kind of work where i want the maximum accurate workflow.

That's wisdom.

Also, the quality of Eizos are not visible because they surpass our perception. It's like trying to see the gamma rays or UVs with our limited eyes. Eizos are beyond our physical capacity. Which is good of the Eizos is the gray scale feature.

[seattle-light]

I like the Apple monitors.

But even when a monitor can display information with amazing accuracy, our eyes have a hard time distinguishing between black and almost black or white and almost white. So even with a terrific monitor you need to use adjustment curves over the top to exaggerate the differences so you can actually see what you're working on.

Our eyes just aren't as sensitive to minor changes in color and tonal levels on screen (which isn't the problem of the monitor, but of our physiology). But using adjustment curves allows us to easily see differences that would normally be invisible to us.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.

[KR1156]

kraelin, does that apple 24" have a glossy screen?!

[lkroll]

Just an opinon, but unless you plan on your work to go straight to the printer for professional work, a high gamut display may not be what you want. What you may see that looks fantastic on a high gamut display may indeed look like cr@p to everybody else, so if you plan on sharing your work to the public like us, (and not everybody here has a high gamut display) then a simple IPS like display would more then suffice. I was lucky and got a Dell 2209wa for a pretty good price this past summer. Not sure about the current cost for it, but I was told that it's still best bang for the buck display for a 22 inch monitor.

[Kraellin]

KR1156,

uhm, i dont know if you mean something technical there when you say 'glossy screen'. didnt look very glossy to me, but then i really dont know what's considered 'glossy' in a monitor. i just liked the bloody look of the thing

I have heard that the led one doesn't have a very wide gammut like the LCD one from apple too.

well, i dont know about the gamut on it. i didnt check. all i know is, that was one VERY impressive monitor. i go almost strictly by what my eye sees (gamut being a secondary consideration to me) and my eyes were impressed! is it the best monitor in the world? i've no idea. i've never owned some of those more expensive ones, but it was the best visual display on a screen i've ever seen and that tilt with no particular loss of image was quite amazing. so, even if you own something with more gamut or more pixels or more anything, that no loss at the edges when tilted to ANYONE doing computer graphics of any kind has got to be a plus and a big consideration! and if i had a spare $900 right now... i wouldnt have that $900 right now. it would be in that monitor

[Quantum3]

Yeah, that was what I heard about the LED one. I will do a research... Just few minutes. Found it. The LED shows a little bit more colors: http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/review...ewid=2937&pn=5

Found this interesting stuff in Mac: The Cinema Display’s total color gamut — number of viewable colors — is perceptibly larger than that of the CRT. You can use the Cinema Display in normally-lit settings — not darkened rooms — with little reduction in the dynamic range of colors being displayed".

http://www.apple.com/pro/color/workflow/

Mart

[joemartinezjr]

I work on 23" Apple cinema displays at work all day, I recently purchased a new 24" Lacie monitor for home and I am sold on the Lacie. A couple reasons; (95% Adobe RGB / 99.7% of ISO Coated) This allows you to see and articulate details in dark areas. The Apple crunches detail and I also end up over saturating colors on the cinema display. Also the Apple displays have a pinkish hue cast unless you go for the 30 incher. If you are familiar with the Adobe 1998 color space there is no doubt you will be floored by the wide gamut Lacie display. If you ever plan on printing an image this is by far the best choice, because this way you will actually see everything that will be printed and it will take away any guess work. Man, I love my lacie! You can nab it from BnH for $865, solid. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...creen_LCD.html

[lkroll]

I only have heard good things about Lacie so I do envy you Joe, but broke I am. lol

Samsung Syncmasters suppose to be pretty good too, but I've never seen for myself either of these LCD displays.

[AndreyPetrov580]

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[RSelby]

I ended up going with the NEC 2690WUXi2. This is an excellent panel and calibration is very easy to accomplish with the supplied software and colorimeter. I'm very happy with the purchase although the price was steep I believe I received what I paid for.

[andrewrodney]

The NEC SpectraView II line, with their software driving it and a supported instrument is IMHO the best bang for the buck for a calibrated display. Apple hasn’t built anything at all impressive in years. Eizo are excellent but far more expensive than NEC and I’ve yet to see anything that warrants the extra money. LaCie doesn’t make anything (they OEM parts from others).

The big deal about the NEC and Eizo are they are considered “smart monitor” that use high bit data in the panel (not the graphic system), along with software that controls the panel hardware to calibrate that hardware. It means you don’t have to be messing around pushing buttons on the OSD to get to a desired target calibration, the software talks to the display and controls it in a far more precise fashion. It means you can build multiple calibration targets and load them to update the calibration and the associated ICC profile. Consider soft proofing to a matt paper versus a glossy paper. Big difference in contrast ratio. With these smart monitors, you can build a calibration target of say TRC Gamma 2.2, 150cd/m2 (which matches your viewing booth), and a white point of D65 with a contrast ratio of 150:1. Now you want the same settings but for the glossy paper, you want a contrast ratio of 300:1. Build one of each, switch on the fly. The software updates the calibration based on the paper and adjusts the contrast ratio.

And if you don’t own a measuring instrument, the bundled price of one with the software is not only a bargain but if you end up with a wide gamut display, NEC has a special EyeOne Display-2 with filters in it mated for this panel. That’s the best instrument you can purchase for this unit.

[Pictus]

Andrewrodney, did you test the new NEC PA series?
Looks like they are new “sweet”.

[andrewrodney]

Originally Posted by Pictus

Andrewrodney, did you test the new NEC PA series?
Looks like they are new “sweet”.

I have a preproduction unit. It is pretty sweet but small (well after working on a 3090). A 27” should follow shortly.

[Heretic]

I am using a NEC MultiSync LCD3090WQXi, the color is really consistent across and up and down and viewing a linear greyscale across the whole screen shows little to no banding, the shadow detail is nice on it also, I also calibrate daily because of using a Remote Director Virtual Proofing system. We have had the Eizo's and I found them a bit sharper than the NEC but some had a pink cast down the left side (I think where the Power unit inside the monitor would be?) Apple monitors are ok, we had a couple for testing, but we found a lot of casting issues with it.

[Heretic]

i think by glossy they mean glass screen, not a typical matte screen

[Carol Heath]

Thanks for that great response Andrew (even though I don't completely understand it all I will need to go back over your slides from today's webinar). I have been checking out both Eizo and NEC monitors and am struggling with the choice. I was able to compare the two at a recent imaging expo here in Melbourne and was tending toward the NEC but Eizo offer a five year warranty which is a pretty impressive selling point. Still confused.

The two monitors I am looking at (within my budget) are the Eizo SX2462W 24 Inch (AU $2212.00) and the NEC PA241W 24 Inch (AU$2075.00) Would you consider one to be a much better choice than the other?

Carol

Originally Posted by andrewrodney

The NEC SpectraView II line, with their software driving it and a supported instrument is IMHO the best bang for the buck for a calibrated display. Apple hasn’t built anything at all impressive in years. Eizo are excellent but far more expensive than NEC and I’ve yet to see anything that warrants the extra money. LaCie doesn’t make anything (they OEM parts from others).

The big deal about the NEC and Eizo are they are considered “smart monitor” that use high bit data in the panel (not the graphic system), along with software that controls the panel hardware to calibrate that hardware. It means you don’t have to be messing around pushing buttons on the OSD to get to a desired target calibration, the software talks to the display and controls it in a far more precise fashion. It means you can build multiple calibration targets and load them to update the calibration and the associated ICC profile. Consider soft proofing to a matt paper versus a glossy paper. Big difference in contrast ratio. With these smart monitors, you can build a calibration target of say TRC Gamma 2.2, 150cd/m2 (which matches your viewing booth), and a white point of D65 with a contrast ratio of 150:1. Now you want the same settings but for the glossy paper, you want a contrast ratio of 300:1. Build one of each, switch on the fly. The software updates the calibration based on the paper and adjusts the contrast ratio.

And if you don’t own a measuring instrument, the bundled price of one with the software is not only a bargain but if you end up with a wide gamut display, NEC has a special EyeOne Display-2 with filters in it mated for this panel. That’s the best instrument you can purchase for this unit.

[andrewrodney]

I think NEC, at least in the US is four year warranty. The Eizo is a fine unit but the additional cost over the NEC seems excessive to me.

[Leroy Brown]

Originally Posted by joemartinezjr

I work on 23" Apple cinema displays at work all day, I recently purchased a new 24" Lacie monitor for home and I am sold on the Lacie. A couple reasons; (95% Adobe RGB / 99.7% of ISO Coated) This allows you to see and articulate details in dark areas. The Apple crunches detail and I also end up over saturating colors on the cinema display. Also the Apple displays have a pinkish hue cast unless you go for the 30 incher. If you are familiar with the Adobe 1998 color space there is no doubt you will be floored by the wide gamut Lacie display. If you ever plan on printing an image this is by far the best choice, because this way you will actually see everything that will be printed and it will take away any guess work. Man, I love my lacie! You can nab it from BnH for $865, solid. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...creen_LCD.html

I will be in the market for my first photo editing monitor. Want to do it right the first time around. Looking at LaCie as I read that some models can do over 100% in NTSC and Adobe RGB (I shoot in Adobe RGB). Are the LaCie "the best" monitors around because they an do 100% plus?

I'm also looking at the Dell U2711 a 27" that has had good reviews. Is accurate out of the box though I plan on buying a Colormunki to calibrate it and my future photo printer (Epson R1900 or R2880 or maybe the R3880).

And why are the NEC's so highly rated? I am looking at the 2480 and 3090 too. Love to get a 30". What is the "best" 30" monitor? Are the NEC Spectra series twice as good as the Dell U2711? Warranting the near high premium over the Dell?

The EIZO have always been highly regarded but they "only" do 97% Adobe RGB gamut. Thought they would also pass the 100% mark like some of the LaCie.

[andrewrodney]

Originally Posted by Leroy Brown

I will be in the market for my first photo editing monitor. Want to do it right the first time around. Looking at LaCie as I read that some models can do over 100% in NTSC and Adobe RGB (I shoot in Adobe RGB). Are the LaCie "the best" monitors around because they an do 100% plus?

This is a somewhat weak, marketing description of the size of the gamut. Bigger doesn’t equate to better, more “accurate” more easily calibrated etc.

And why are the NEC's so highly rated?

Because they are designed from the ground up for being calibrated to what was once called a “reference display” (Barco, PressView, Artisan). This is where a manufacture builds a panel that is designed with a measuring instrument, software and so forth for the task of being calibrated and whereby when multiple users of the same system use the same calibration targets, they all match to a very high degree. Also known as “smart monitors” because once you describe the calibration targets you want, you click one button and the rest of the process is carried out using the software along with communications inside the panel. No buttons on the unit to press to affect brightness, color etc. The display and the software, along with the instrument all communicate to produce the desired calibration.

The EIZO have always been highly regarded but they "only" do 97% Adobe RGB gamut. Thought they would also pass the 100% mark like some of the LaCie.

Again, forget the amounts of gamut spec here. Having an NEC or Eizo that does “97%” of a specified gamut, but does so with the integration and quality mentioned above will be a far better product than one having 101% of the Adobe RGB gamut but using inferior quality electronics, software or total calibration integration. Don’t get caught up in the marketing number hype. FWIW, LaCie doesn’t make squat. The OEM panels from others and slap their label on them. Some are actually NEC panels. The question is, does NEC supply the pick of the litter to LaCie or keep them for their high end solutions?

[Leroy Brown]

Originally Posted by andrewrodney

Because they are designed from the ground up for being calibrated to what was once called a “reference display” (Barco, PressView, Artisan). This is where a manufacture builds a panel that is designed with a measuring instrument, software and so forth for the task of being calibrated and whereby when multiple users of the same system use the same calibration targets, they all match to a very high degree. Also known as “smart monitors” because once you describe the calibration targets you want, you click one button and the rest of the process is carried out using the software along with communications inside the panel. No buttons on the unit to press to affect brightness, color etc. The display and the software, along with the instrument all communicate to produce the desired calibration.

Could you not also say that about Dell's U2711 monitor? Even if that might really be a Samsung (or which ever company they are using now).

Originally Posted by andrewrodney

Again, forget the amounts of gamut spec here. Having an NEC or Eizo that does “97%” of a specified gamut, but does so with the integration and quality mentioned above will be a far better product than one having 101% of the Adobe RGB gamut but using inferior quality electronics, software or total calibration integration. Don’t get caught up in the marketing number hype. FWIW, LaCie doesn’t make squat. The OEM panels from others and slap their label on them. Some are actually NEC panels. The question is, does NEC supply the pick of the litter to LaCie or keep them for their high end solutions?

But, is it not important when buying to know that a monitor can do "97% Adobe RGB"? Whether those claims are spot on or marketing. What do we go on? There must be specs that are important to look out for. To tell us monitor A is better than monitor B. Or do we just go on reviews from magazines and forum members?

I'm looking at the Dell U2711 (27", $900 CAD). But the NEC Spectra series are highly regarded. So if I can be convinced they are worth their asking price I might pay for the NEC 26" 2690 ($1800 CAD) or even perhaps their 30" 3090 ($2300 CAD). Would like to get this right the first time around. I mean would a $900 27" wide gamut monitor like the Dell not be "good enough" for a hobbyist wanting a good calibrated monitor that can be matched with the out put from a calibrated photo printer?

[andrewrodney]

Originally Posted by Leroy Brown

Could you not also say that about Dell's U2711 monitor? Even if that might really be a Samsung (or which ever company they are using now).

No experience, doubt they are anything special like NEC or Eizo because again, the key here is a display that’s built to take advantage of software and hardware from the design and ground up. Yes, you can buy such a display and a 3rd party kit (Spyder, EyeOne Display) but its not the same solution as this fully integrated system discussed above.

[Leroy Brown]

Was wondering. What do you guys think of the screen used in the Apple iMac 27" computers. Do you think they can be calibrated to match the output from lets say an Epson R1900? Or would I still need to look at a wide gamut monitor like the NEC SpectraView series or the 27" Dell U2711? I'm sure some of you have had experience with the new iMacs.

[andrewrodney]

Originally Posted by Leroy Brown

Was wondering. What do you guys think of the screen used in the Apple iMac 27" computers. Do you think they can be calibrated to match the output from lets say an Epson R1900? .

That device has a much wider gamut than the iMac display but the bigger issue is, its not that great a display and they are usually way too bright and Apple doesn’t make it easy (in some cases impossible) to target the luminance to match a print using a decent viewing booth/condition.

[TopiToo]

Hi

I found this link with regards to Apple 23" monitors, any other size in this range looks fine. http://www.dreamlight.com/insights/bugs/hd23.html

[Leroy Brown]

Thanks for posting that link about the 23" ACD. I've already crossed Apple computers off my list for my next desktop computer. Will likely buy a Dell Studio 9000 and either a Dell U2711 or NEC PA271W wide-gamut monitor (and either an Epson R1900 or R3880...the 3880 only costs a few hundred dollars more..was on sale recently at a local photography shop for just under $1000.00 CAD...but I'm not buying now so...).

Mac Pro are just too pricey for what you get. You could get a comparably equipped Windows based computer for half as much. Possibly better equipped even.