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Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2011, 03:03 AM
linmar linmar is offline
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Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Hi,

I'm considering to buy a Eizo CG275W, primarily to retouch my photos. Will I regret it? Is it a good solution? Can I get away with a cheaper monitor?

I'll be using it as a 2nd screen on my Macbook Pro.

Thanks,
Markus
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:12 AM
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John Wheeler John Wheeler is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Hi Markus

That is a pretty open ended question that can cover a lot of areas. A lot depends on your application, business vs hobby, available funds, and tradeoffs on other hardware/software that you could purchase to enhance your business/experience.

Here are some things to consider

- The CG275W accepts up to 10 bit color data per channel yet I believe the MacBook Pro only outputs 8 bit per channel max with existing hardware implementation (you need to double check with Apple specs)
- You should call Eizo and make sure that all their supplied software works on OSX. In their specifications, some of the supplied software mentions Windows OSes yet not OSX (I find that hard to believe yet that is what is in their specs).
- This CG monitors are top of the class yet the > $3000 price tag is 4X to 6X more expensive than other alternative (and of course less capable) monitors.
- This monitor is extremely wide gamut yet the gamut still does not overlap all of the gamut of some ink jet printers.
- The reality is that depending on the type of retouching you do, many of the colors that you retouch (skin tones) are well within the gamut of many narrower gamut monitors. So is the wide gamut capability needed?

Eizo monitors offer a wide range of controls, 10 bit color depth (if your graphics card supports 10 bits per channel as well {which as mentioned not sure the MacBook Pro does}), high stability, accuracy, ease of calibration/profiling, along with the wide gamut. If such features really make the difference for you at the tune of $3.00 a day over a 3 year warranted lifetime for monitor then it may be for you. For me, I have many other needs that are higher priority for my needs (like eating )
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2011, 12:40 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wheeler View Post
- This CG monitors are top of the class yet the > $3000 price tag is 4X to 6X more expensive than other alternative (and of course less capable) monitors.
- This monitor is extremely wide gamut yet the gamut still does not overlap all of the gamut of some ink jet printers.
- The reality is that depending on the type of retouching you do, many of the colors that you retouch (skin tones) are well within the gamut of many narrower gamut monitors. So is the wide gamut capability needed?
John the price in Europe is considerably lower than in the US. I don't think it works out over $3000 there at all. NEC and Eizo are actually much much closer in price over there, and the NECs are on a slightly different setup overall compared to the US (for example spectraview software in Europe is just an oemed basicolor).

All Eizo software runs on macs. I'm not sure if it's updated for Lion. Lion, the mini displayport connection, and as far as I'm aware the current generation of thunderbolt do not support 10 bit out but I wouldn't worry too much about that. What matters there is if you see dithering artifacts which can still occur on 10 bit panels.


Photoshop supports 10 bit out on a limited number of graphics cards on the Windows side. Adobe supplies a list on their site. For any display using a comparable 27" panel (I'm saying a similar design, not just any 27" panel) the price difference especially in Europe isn't going to be anything like 4-6x. It would more likely be within a factor of 2 if that especially for him. I think the Dell with a comparable panel in the US is still over $1000. John take a look at the link I posted in here and you'll see that the US has weird pricing (and the OP isn't in the US).

To the OP, I just shortened my response because it was lengthier than I wanted.

http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/f...tureID=3311960

There's a good link comparing it to a similar offering from NEC. This compares comparable packages so it includes calibration solutions on each. If you're looking to save money and you want a top quality display, why not look at a 24" rather than a 27? Both sizes are perfectly usable. Big screens do have quite a lot of impact, but on a budget I'd rather take a smaller screen size than go away from the manufacturers I just mentioned. While I've had some issues with NEC in the past in that their older displays didn't age well (they run literally forever but they lose stability and uniformity, and colorcomp didn't help this either), they are one of the few manufacturers that's actually maintained a functional professional grade display line.

Last edited by kav; 10-20-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2011, 09:39 AM
linmar linmar is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Thanks for the feedback so far.

In regards to the prices I am undecided between the Apple Thunderbolt Display and the Eizo. The Apple costs half of the Eizo over here.

I tend to think "if you buy cheap you buy twice", so if the Eizo is the best solution I'm ok to spend the money, provided that it does make sense.

The 30bit argument sounded very reasonable to me. If my computer only uses 8bit, why spend a premium for a 10bit screen?

I'm just a hobbyist but I want to make this a profession. I am doing it on a more serious level for a few years (including a color managed workflow etc), so generally speaking I think I can appreciate the features. Most of my retouching is about skin-tones. I also do large (24") prints, so if they don't match the screen it also gets expensive.

However, I have been working on the 17" macbook screen so far and haven't been totally unhappy.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:25 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by linmar View Post
Thanks for the feedback so far.

In regards to the prices I am undecided between the Apple Thunderbolt Display and the Eizo. The Apple costs half of the Eizo over here.

I tend to think "if you buy cheap you buy twice", so if the Eizo is the best solution I'm ok to spend the money, provided that it does make sense.

The 30bit argument sounded very reasonable to me. If my computer only uses 8bit, why spend a premium for a 10bit screen?

You are hung up on the wrong details here in terms of what makes a quality display. I can think of many current "and" older models that are superior to that Apple display today.

The 10 bit panel thing basically started to become more common in late 2010 and this year. That's why it's not fully supported yet, but these are basically just updated panel designs. If a company focused on professional displays brings a new one to market, they use what is available to them.

There have been 10 bit displays in the past year or so that have not been so great. We've seen some really impressive 8 bit displays. Just using a scale of 0-1023 vs 0-255 does not automatically solve every engineering issue.

If the Eizo and NEC are beyond the budget you're comfortable with, that's understandable. It's just that the Apple makes such a bad compromise. If you're looking to save money, I'd buy something other than that piece of crap. Apple has made some really nice things, but outside of the iphone, displays are not a strong point for them.

The thunderbolt display requires one of the macbook pros that came out this year so that it has the thunderbolt connection. It won't run off mini displayport. Unless you bought yours after February of this year, it simply won't work. Apple's quality control on displays has been historically abysmal, and you don't know if you'll get a good unit. Their warranties suck. It's one year unless they offer applecare on just a display, and dealing with Apple on warranty service is not fun. Other manufacturers you typically get 3-5 years standard. The Apple display doesn't seem to profile well with any off the shelf calibration software/puck solutions, and it doesn't include one. The display is too bright. It gives me eye strain looking at one (one of my friends owns one). You can turn that down but not to the level of some other displays, and the contrast stability isn't so great at lower luminance levels.

Anyway there are better budget solutions than Apple. Buying one of those means still paying a lot, but not really seeing much for it. I'd just have to figure out local pricing to know what to suggest.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2011, 03:42 AM
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DJSoulglo DJSoulglo is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

My 2 cents. The Eizo panels generally have the easiest panels to look at, it's very very calm. I've spent about 3 years looking at an Eizo and in my mind they're the nicest to look at. I'm not sure about all the bit situation. I just know that industry standard is an Eizo.

If you have the money. Get it. You'll not be disapointed.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:39 AM
linmar linmar is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Thanks for all the feedback; I got the Eizo and am very happy with it.
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:37 PM
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Don’t get too caught up in the bit depth numbers in terms of 10 vs. 12 bit etc. More than 8 bits is what’s useful and on the Mac, there isn’t as yet a full high bit path from graphic system to OS and application through the display. You’ll see less banding with a 10 bit display which is good. But more isn’t necessarily useful and as said, you’re not working with a full high bit path on OS X anyway. You can on Windows in Photoshop if you have all the proper stuff (supported high bit video card).
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:00 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by linmar View Post
Thanks for all the feedback; I got the Eizo and am very happy with it.
I'm glad you're happy with it . I think you'll enjoy that one way way more than the Apple display, and it should last longer.
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Old 11-13-2011, 04:28 PM
Siciliana Siciliana is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

One more question to add to this thread. It isn't in the budget yet, but I would like to upgrade my monitor sometime in the next 6 months. I am currently working on an Apple cinema display. Given the options, between the Eizo and the NEC models, can anyone give any direct experiences of why they prefer one to the other. I am looking at the models that are under $3000 tops (the less I spend the better) I am most concerned with having highly accurate color as well as ease on my eyes. Thanks! Amy
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:13 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

My historic complaints with NEC have been quality control, software bugs last for months before fixes, and their first tier tech support sucks. If they have someone more knowledgeable email you back it's way better. Oh and they drift faster for some reason. I used to see weird things like if it hadn't been calibrated in a while the uniformity would actually look worse, which shouldn't happen. The PA series has been suggested as a big improvement over the older ones, so the gap may be lower now.

I have a cg243w but that design has been out for a couple years. It uses an older panel design than the newest NECs. The 275w is nice but it's quite expensive here ($700 or so more than Europe after calculating for exchange rate). I don't know about NECs but you could probably see how the Eizos look at one of the shops there. San Francisco must have a place where you can see them. At some point we'll see an updated display generation.

If you go with any of them that are wider than an sRGB gamut, only a few sensors seem to profile those well (as in without weird results). With the NEC I'd get the bundle, with the Eizo I'm about to try out the i1 display pro as my old sensor died.

My suggestion is to see demo models if you can. If you go with NEC budget for the spectraview kit (the sensor bundled with that uses adjusted firmware, with Eizo they use lookup tables instead).


By the way hardforum has quite a few old discussions on these. B+H has a number of reviews on the NECs. The ones that did mention complaints kind of echos my quality control concern. All I will say is if you get one with poor uniformity out of the box send it back right away rather than trying to mess with things to improve it. If the initial results are poor, you won't like the way it will age. I'm not trying to steer you toward one or the other as NEC seems like a very good deal, but you don't want to keep a bad unit. In Europe I've heard the spectraview models are specially binned panels with different firmware, but they're much more expensive there.
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Old 11-13-2011, 05:40 PM
Siciliana Siciliana is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Thanks for the advice. I definitely will not buy anything without having a chance to interact with the models in advance. I've got a lot of research to do, but I've got time since I have a bunch of other expenses to cover first. (I'll try my best not to be swayed by pure gadgetry... that cool little pop-up sensor that self-calibrates in the middle of the night is so seductive!)
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:34 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siciliana View Post
(I'll try my best not to be swayed by pure gadgetry... that cool little pop-up sensor that self-calibrates in the middle of the night is so seductive!)
What matters is how the hardware performs both when it's new and for several years of normal use. It can be a tough choice. Just remember that if you get something that looks like crap out of the box, a mass produced puck used to calibrate another mass produced item isn't going to fix a bad unit.

Edit: that's why I bought mine locally
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:45 PM
Siciliana Siciliana is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

Yeah, I know. I was just joking I certainly don't have that kind of cash to throw around for something that will not last or that gives me nothing but headaches. This is a practical decision. I definitely will only buy if I feel confident in the product and I can purchase it with an excellent warranty.
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:56 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Eizo CG275W for retouching photography?

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Originally Posted by Siciliana View Post
I definitely will only buy if I feel confident in the product and I can purchase it with an excellent warranty.
Warranties are always an issue with display manufacturers. You can always inquire about their policies beforehand, but some of them have some weird ideas about what is considered "within spec". Say you have some truly obnoxious backlight bleed in one corner. Maybe this isn't something seen on every unit but it happens to be an issue on yours. This doesn't necessarily mean a display manufacturer will take it in for warranty without fighting them on it. That's why I say to examine things right out of the box. If a display won't turn on or looks absolutely terrible early on, that's one thing, but you can find a lot of display warranty complaints online no matter what manufacturer you choose. NEC at first said a roughly 22% falloff in brightness (measured via a function in their own software) was within spec. The display got worse after that, and it took me forever to get it replaced although after continued issues they escalated the issue to someone who was really nice and did get it swapped out. With Eizo their warranties say five years but they have a lot of fine print. You should be aware of it.

Anyway none of them offer the perfect warranty.
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