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NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

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  #11  
Old 07-19-2012, 03:52 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
AFAIK AmbiBright refers to the sensor in the monitor which measures the ambient light in your work area and adjusts the monitors backlight brightness to compensate for changes. So for instance it may increase the screen brightness when you find yourself in the room with bright daylight streaming in and reduce the level when you are in evening light or even no ambient light.

There is an ambient light sensor in my monitor - it is turned off.
I do not have first hand experience of this model, but am a little sceptical if it can work well within a colour managed workflow. What happens relating to your carefully set up calibration when the screen dims or brightens? It may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but...

Soft proofing tons of articles on the net incl:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...proofing.shtml
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...t-proofing.htm

If you get serious about color management IMO the definitive work is Color-Management for Photographers by Andrew Rodney. It really is a very comprehensive book with a huge amount of information. Andrew occassionally posts here
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Color-Manage.../dp/0240806492

As you are considering which calibrating equipment some reviews on the ones mentioned in this thread from a professional photographer in the UK:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/r...pyder4pro.html.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/r...i_display.html
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/r...splay_pro.html
It's very rare that I'm wrong, and this wasn't one of those times. Keep in mind I've never heard of anyone successfully ordering and using spectraview II in the UK. I'm not sure if it works or if you must use their version. The point would be if you're using one of the NEC spectraview variants, you can't use the colormunki display. The Spyder 4 is probably okay. They've been updating for Adobe RGB displays. They aren't necessarily as consistent (if one breaks the next may grant slightly different results). 120 cd/m2 still sounds really bright to me, but yeah turn off ambient compensation. I hope this clears up the colormunki confusion.


http://update.necdisplay.com/spectra...v1_1_09-1.html
Quote:
X-Rite iOneDisplay Pro:

* This version includes support for the X-Rite iOneDisplay Pro color sensor.
* The X-Rite ColorMunki Display device introduced in mid-2011 is not supported.
* The NEC SpectraSensor Pro is based on the X-Rite iOneDisplay Pro sensor and is supported. Note that this sensor may not be supported by non-NEC software.


X-Rite/GretagMacbeth iOne Pro or iOne Monitor: If using the X-Rite/GretagMacbeth iOne Pro or iOne Monitor -

* Be sure to allow the device at least 15 minutes to warm up before calibrating the display.
* Measurements may drift slightly causing inaccurate measurements, especially when measuring colors close to black.
* Selecting the Average low light measurements option in the SpectraView Preferences is highly recommended when using this device.
* Be sure to carefully follow the instructions for zero calibrating the device.

X-Rite/GretagMacbeth iOne Display:

* In some rare cases this color sensor may "hang" when measuring black color patches during calibration. If the calibration appears to be stuck measuring black for more than 30 seconds, try moving the sensor so it is measuring something other than black (for example turn the sensor around so it is measuring the ambient light). This should cause the calibration to resume, at which point it should be cancelled an restarted.

X-Rite ColorMunki:

The "ColorMunki Create" version of ColorMunki is not supported by SpectraView. The "ColorMunki Design" and "Colormunki Photo" versions are supported.

If the X-Rite ColorMunki software is installed, it will prevent NEC Display Wall Calibrator from accessing the device even if the main ColorMunki application is not currently running.

If you are using the ColorMunki software prior to version 1.1.0:

NEC Display Wall Calibrator will detect if the ColorMunki software is running and give the option of closing it automatically.
To use the ColorMunki software again after NEC Display Wall Calibrator has closed it, you must run the colormunki.exe application from the Startup menu in Windows.

If you are using the ColorMunki software version 1.1.0 or newer:

You must turn off the ColorMunki Service in the Windows Control Panel > "X-Rite Device Services" to allow NEC Display Wall Calibrator to access the device.
To use the ColorMunki software again you must turn the ColorMunki Service back on.

* It is not recommended to connect this device using either USB extension cables or USB hubs as it may cause errors detecting or taking measurements from the device. Whenever possible connect it directly to the host PC.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:44 PM
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

You can choose to either believe me or not I use Spectra View II software with the NEC Multisync 2090uxi in the UK and I suggest there are others that do the same!

Quote:
It's very rare that I'm wrong, and this wasn't one of those times.
The first part of the sentence speaks volumes and the second part serves to confirm.
Quote:
Keep in mind I've never heard of anyone successfully ordering and using spectraview II in the UK. I'm not sure if it works or if you must use their version.
You choose to ignore this Post #4 What you need to understand is that the SpectraView II software is not sold in Europe therefore is not supported. AFAIK the only way to get hardware calibration is to use SpectraView so in the UK you have a choice buy the Spectraview monitors that now come bundled with the profiler or if you have American friends and want to use Spectraview II then the answer is clear.

And again in Post #6 If you want to buy the cheaper Multisync then I know that SVII will work to hardware calibrate I did say that SVII was not available in Europe and I believe it cannot be ordered from someone residing in Europe hence the suggestion that for anyone with links to friends in the US it could be purchased - of course you will not get any support from NEC!

You're not sure it works! You have been told it does. What do you need to accept this screen shots of the software

Your link to NEC of supported monitors confirms this just a selection from the list including the poor 2090 and I think the OPs choice:
SpectraView II supports the following display monitor models:
  • NEC LCD2090UXi
  • NEC LCD2490WUXi
  • NEC LCD2490WUXi2
  • NEC LCD2690WUXi
  • NEC LCD2690WUXi2
  • NEC LCD3090WQXi
  • NEC P221W
  • NEC P241W
  • NEC PA231W
  • NEC PA241W
  • NEC PA271W
  • NEC PA301W
  • NEC S401
  • NEC S461
  • NEC S521
Quote:
The point would be if you're using one of the NEC spectraview variants, you can't use the colormunki display.
You are correct here with the Spectraview variant as it requires the spectrophotometer version but if you want to use the ColorMunki you can with SpectraView II - The "ColorMunki Create" version of ColorMunki is not supported by SpectraView. The "ColorMunki Design" and "Colormunki Photo" versions are supported.
As the OP has already purchased a SpectraView and should have the profiler software the point is mute really
Quote:
120 cd/m2 still sounds really bright to me...
Your comment surprises me surely the correct point for luminance is the one that you get the visual match. I have seen various recs. from color experts quoting values from 80 – 150 cd.m2 but without knowing the working conditions all are meaningless. 120 cd/m2 may seem really bright and unworkable to you and your environment but for others this may not be the case. The other thing to consider is are the values quoted to you actually true i.e. how do you check correct calibration of the calibrator without a known reference to work to.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2012, 06:04 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

Edit: Also I missed the other stuff. My point was to be careful about what colormunki is referenced. X-rite has a terrible naming convention. They just apply the name colormunki to anything that is supposed to be consumer grade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony W View Post

The first part of the sentence speaks volumes and the second part serves to confirm.
You may be taking me more seriously than I take myself. I said that just to sound like a jerk, because it's fun to do that at times. I do have a somewhat warped/silly sense of humor, but it probably doesn't come across well on here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
Your comment surprises me surely the correct point for luminance is the one that you get the visual match. I have seen various recs. from color experts quoting values from 80 – 150 cd.m2 but without knowing the working conditions all are meaningless. 120 cd/m2 may seem really bright and unworkable to you and your environment but for others this may not be the case. The other thing to consider is are the values quoted to you actually true i.e. how do you check correct calibration of the calibrator without a known reference to work to.
I do print check and adjust. I've tested 120cd/m2 as an input. The white it spit out was much brighter than any paper white I've seen. Some softproofing packages (which tend to be extremely expensive, keep in mind I don't own one of these) use much brighter starting values, but they try to emulate the dynamics range of the paper itself so the image isn't necessarily mapped from 0-255. This gives them some amount of leverage to represent things like a slightly warmer white to emulate the look of UV coatings which may be applied to a magazine cover. At 80 you'd lose too much brightness in the process. I know, 80-120 is the typical quoted range. Eizo won't let you go beyond 120 without a warning. I keep things quite dark to minimize reflection. Overall if you want an unbiased/consistent look, that remains the best way to get it, even if it is somewhat unpleasant.
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2012, 06:25 PM
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

Thanks guys for massive input into this thread. Takes me some time to learn the what is being said here. From what I have red here and from links multisync colorprofiler5 has spectraview ingine which is supported for colormunki design and photo versions. I checked the price ..it is steep....maybe there are other tools that able to perform well with a different price tag. I wonder if there are people who used spyder tool successfuly or any other. I still to receive my monitor tomorrow though. Just it is getting really interesting. What I am trying to understand further is following ,, from the ability to accurately emulate colour spaces such as Adobe RGB and sRGB , to performing printer output emulations using ICC Profiles and internal 3D Look Up Tables,, if my monitor colour spaces are calibrated then wouldnt I be able just simply choosing printer output icc preset foe my monitor to get a matching color for print?
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2012, 06:34 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

The expensive colormunki is the spectrophotometer. It's actually a low end solution, and I've never had good luck with low end solutions from X-rite. Now the important question here is would you be using it for print measurements as well (printing target, measuring values to verify conformance). If you're just measuring the display, the cheaper solutions (i1 display pro and spyder 4) are better/considered more accurate. Yes you can tweak things a little if you're having issues with sample variation, but variations aren't necessarily a linear thing as in slightly too green in a uniform fashion where adjustment controls can help.
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2012, 07:01 PM
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nebulaoperator nebulaoperator is offline
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

@kav first I want to get my display monitor right :colour temperature, gamma and luminance to be in the target area colour accuracy without significant deviation.
Thanks
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulaoperator View Post
I want to get my display monitor right :colour temperature, gamma and luminance to be in the target area colour accuracy without significant deviation.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...too_dark.shtml
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  #18  
Old 07-19-2012, 07:14 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

If you're just trying to go for as close to gamma 2.2 D65 as possible then work from there, you would be best served by a colorimeter device as they cost less and do one job well. Spyder4 or i1 display pro as opposed to colormunki design at twice the price. With a bad color sensor match, you tend to end up with slightly tinted greys. Now anyone can argue that it's impossible to get a 100% neutral match visually, but I've had circumstances where it was just plainly obvious that something was off in what was regarded as a neutral value. I'd say start with gamma 2.2 + native color temperature, and adjust as necessary from there. A good starting luminance would be something around 100-120 cd/m2. If I recall correctly NEC can't really go lower than that on backlight adjustments alone, so you might start to crunch things beneath that point.

Obviously adjust as needed. My point is that I'd rather get used to it printing down a little if going lower on luminance crushes shadow detail.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2012, 05:42 AM
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulaoperator View Post
... From what I have red here and from links multisync colorprofiler5 has spectraview ingine which is supported for colormunki design and photo versions.
This seems to have got a little more involved than it should have.

To try to clarify, worldwide there are two versions of the NEC monitor calibration software, in the USA one called SpectraView II and in the UK is SpectraView Profiler 5. They do the same job but there are limitations on the calibrator.

You cannot buy the US version SpectraView II in the UK you would need to have a friend in the USA to buy it for you. In turn if you had any issues NEC Europe would wash their hands of your problem. This version is the only one that can use either ColorMunki design or Photo.

In the UK you will be best served using the SpectraView Profiler software. Now it is just possible that you already own this as I now understand that NEC bundle this with at least some of their Spectraview range of monitors. Check your manuals and CD - and also check what calibration units supported. I think for your purposes that the entry level Spyder 4 offers the best value for money
Quote:
first I want to get my display monitor right :colour temperature, gamma and luminance to be in the target area colour accuracy without significant deviation
The assumption is that you want to get these thing right so that you can better predict how your prints will look?
If that is the case the only way to do this with accuracy is use a calibration device.

If you are not intending to print then the subject of monitor calibration takes on much less importance. In this case your target values are likely to be a screen that looks bright enough and with good color the actual values are not important.

Tomas, do not fuss this too much, get used to your monitor and enjoy. Check if the calibration software is included in your package then you can decide on your calibrator cheapest as suggested Spyder 4. Do not worry about the more expensive ColorMunki this is designed for print profiling - and you certainly do not want to go down that route at this time

In Post #8 I had already given you my figures for display calibration so this may be a good starting point for you which will need to be fine tuned to your working environment. Do not be surprised if you need to go higher or lower for luminance. In fact Basicolor seem to think that 150 cd/m2 should be used - not sure where I saw this though
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2012, 03:54 PM
P_fuzz P_fuzz is offline
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Re: NEC PA231W 23" or PA241W 24"

hey Nebula, which display did you go for?
have you seen NEC has a new one out P232W - SV?

I am looking for a new display as well, I have a HP LP2475w but it suffers from a hue tint on both corners.
I see you also had th HP one, I guess you were one of the lucky ones to not have the hue issue!
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