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New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Eizo?

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  #11  
Old 03-05-2014, 12:00 PM
YoungRetoucher YoungRetoucher is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

I found it hard to find information, I googled the subject extensively but could not find any clear information. If I use display port (not mini) on my Mac Pro 2009 that was recently upgraded with a 2012 Mac Edition GTX 680 to connect to my monitor will I get 10 bits with Mavericks? If not is it still recommended to use display port to get the most accuracy?

I think I will be getting the Eizo CG246, but I'm wondering; can the integrated self calibration device stand on its own with Color Navigator? I would rather avoid having to buy yet another calibration device. According to my friend there is no need to use an external calibration sensor with this model as the integrated one is top notch but I'd love to hear what some of the very knowledgeable members here such as Mr Rodney think.
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2014, 12:24 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

Unless something has changed with 10.9, there is no full 10-bit path on OS X. The panel IS high bit. But the entire path isn't.
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2014, 02:16 PM
YoungRetoucher YoungRetoucher is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

In that case why prefer Display Port? What do I gain over using DVI? I'm confused!

Even if the OS can not use the 10 bit color, is there any advantage in it being available even though it can't be used by the OS?

PS: Odd, I seem to find two contradictory reports, one stating my graphics card supports 10 bit color and one saying it does not. I guess the question in the end would be this; with a monitor that supports 10 bits, does it really matter if my mac does not? Will I somehow be crippled by using a 10 bit monitor on an 8 bit system compared to using an 8 bit monitor with said 8 bit system? Would I be better off not buying my friend's 10 bit monitor? The price is the same as buying a NEC new and he barely ever used it.

Last edited by YoungRetoucher; 03-05-2014 at 02:46 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-05-2014, 02:57 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

On my MBP, direct connect of display port cable, no adaptor needed which would be the case for DVI.

A full high bit path requires OS, application, card and panel. If one's not providing full high bit path, there's upsampling. OS X isn't high bit.
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  #15  
Old 03-05-2014, 03:25 PM
YoungRetoucher YoungRetoucher is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

I have a non-mini Display Port and a DVI port, I don't need an adapter, I have the choice it would seem as I'm using a Desktop Mac Pro, not the Mac Book Pro, sorry about the confusion. Would Display Port be better?

Am I loosing a percentage of the spec listed aRGB coveragefor my monitor by using a 10 bit monitor on an 8 bit system with an 8 bit card?


Soooo confused right now!

Last edited by YoungRetoucher; 03-05-2014 at 04:28 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2014, 04:31 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

8 bit vs 10 relates only to how close things are spaced. It has nothing to do with gamut. There are no 10 bit OSX drivers, so you have no gpu options there. DVI is a legacy port. Both your machine and the monitor have displayport. You should use that. If you had mini displayport or thunderbolt on your mac, you would use a mini displayport to displayport cable.
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2014, 04:38 PM
YoungRetoucher YoungRetoucher is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

Thanks klev! What do you mean by how closely things are spaced? What about these Quadro cards for Mac that claim to be 10 bits but are much less powerful than my current card yet cost five times more?

Are you saying that in essence for a retoucher it does not matter to work in 10 bits?
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2014, 07:42 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

I need to mention that you seem to locate a lot of incomplete information. Some people claimed to get 10bpc working under Leopard with Quadro 4800 cards. Nothing works now. If you want that to work, sell the Mac. Use Windows. There are plenty of people who use these displays on Macs, and all of them are subject to the same limitations. There is no way around it.

Regarding gamut, your display has 3 channels. The gpu framebuffer has to provide this information from its set of RGBA (red, green, blue, alpha) data after it performs whatever operations on the pixel fragments and determines what will be shown on screen. The display itself has to come up with some output value relative to each input, typically normalized over the range of possible framebuffer values. That framebuffer can output anything from 0 to 2^8 - 1. The display must then map that range to its own range after whatever internal adjustments. If your gpu has both the driver and bandwidth to send 10 bit signals rather than 8, and both the application and operating system support this format, you have the option of using a 10 bit pipeline. This means that the range of values is 0 to 2^10 - 1. It's 0-255 or 0-1024 over the same boundary conditions for each of 3 channels. Does that make more sense?
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  #19  
Old 03-05-2014, 11:13 PM
YoungRetoucher YoungRetoucher is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

Right, I'm not sure I understand the technical stuff though I appreciate you trying to explain it to me. Bottom line: Anyone claiming to have 10 bit color in Photoshop on a Mac is wrong, correct?

With a big majority of retouchers using Macs and doing fine without 10 bit I now wonder if it is useful at all? Am I missing out on anything? Or rather does it make sense to buy a 10 bit monitor for a Mac even though it can't use 10 bits? Am I loosing any quality from using that monitor rather than using an 8 bit monitor and will I loose any accuracy during hardware calibration?

Or to make things simpler having the opportunity to buy a top of the line Eizo at the same price than the top of the line NEC should I do it? The cg246 has the following specs:

- 24.1 in
- 10 bit Color
- 16 bit (3D) Lookup Tables
- 97% Adobe RGB
- 1920x1200 (16:10 Aspect)
- Hood, ColorNavigator and inbuilt self calibration sensor included.
- 1000:1 Contrast Ratio
- RGB LED IPS
- Grade "Very Good" given by something called PRAD?

I'm being offered to buy it for 1100 bucks, it usually retails for a bit less than 2000 in my country... Should I go for it?
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  #20  
Old 03-06-2014, 01:07 AM
klev klev is offline
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Re: New Monitor! Stay loyal to NEC or switch to Ei

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungRetoucher View Post
Right, I'm not sure I understand the technical stuff though I appreciate you trying to explain it to me. Bottom line: Anyone claiming to have 10 bit color in Photoshop on a Mac is wrong, correct?

With a big majority of retouchers using Macs and doing fine without 10 bit I now wonder if it is useful at all? Am I missing out on anything? Or rather does it make sense to buy a 10 bit monitor for a Mac even though it can't use 10 bits? Am I loosing any quality from using that monitor rather than using an 8 bit monitor and will I loose any accuracy during hardware calibration?

Or to make things simpler having the opportunity to buy a top of the line Eizo at the same price than the top of the line NEC should I do it? The cg246 has the following specs:
There's never an advantage to buying an 8 bit display over a 10 bit one, unless the 8 bit display is a better overall display. You are way too hung up on this. As I mentioned it assigns more bits to a fixed range. Hardware calibration is the same no matter what. The LUT isn't stored in the computer. Yes anyone claiming that on a Mac is clueless. The whole thing about greater bit depth came up as gamuts became wider. The inherent problem is that you have the same number of bits stretched over a wider area, so the minimum distance between two colors is wider.


Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungRetoucher View Post
I'm being offered to buy it for 1100 bucks, it usually retails for a bit less than 2000 in my country... Should I go for it?
That is up to you. If you make money using the display, and this is in fact a legitimate offer, it is worth the asking price. It's possible to check the hours on the display, but I don't think the warranty transfers. Prad.de is a site that reviews display hardware. Here is the review on that display by the aforementioned site.
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